Does society have a duty to prevent the insane from damaging it via that insanity?

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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,597
11,282
136
You may have noticed that the insane don’t want to be helped.

TBH I think your argument would be better off without the sanity-related wording altogether, because when factoring that in, it's straight-up BS with all the sweeping generalisations. Furthermore, wilful ignorance and insanity may have some correlation, but so does say bread-eating and insanity.

What I think the question you really want to ask is "what should society do about the wilfully ignorant" (I agree, it's a serious problem), to which I don't have any ideas or answers. IMO prevention is better than cure, and investing bucketloads into educating children so that they have a critical worldview to begin adulthood with.
 
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boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
It’s 1984. Lies are the truth.
Damned straight. If you like your health-care plan you can keep it.

Some people just don't understand the necessity of telling a lie that is for your own damned good. Some people just don't understand that Democrat lies are based in good and Republican lies are based in evil.

Maybe a wise person such as yourself could explain this to the rest of us if we promise to look adoringly at you while you do so.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,671
136
How about more penalties for flat out lying? If youre accusing the press of "false news" you have to put up or shut up or get sued.

And more opportunities for the public to hold politicians to account? Question and answer sessions where politicians responses are recorded and challenged and are treated as if they were speaking under oath at court?

Yea when Sara claims fake news at a press conference a reporter needs to get up and ask need to ask what, when, where!? What is fake news tell us what they think is fake news.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,671
136
Damned straight. If you like your health-care plan you can keep it.

Some people just don't understand the necessity of telling a lie that is for your own damned good. Some people just don't understand that Democrat lies are based in good and Republican lies are based in evil.

Maybe a wise person such as yourself could explain this to the rest of us if we promise to look adoringly at you while you do so.

Yea ok but thats one and were at 5000 plus with trump.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,993
13,519
136
You need an information vector like the right has, simple as that, and through that vector present a better alternative than chemtrails. If you cant do that its on you. But you need a vector to speek to the people with to begin with.(all those imprisoned by fox++)
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
What I think the question you really want to ask is "what should society do about the wilfully ignorant" (I agree, it's a serious problem), to which I don't have any ideas or answers. IMO prevention is better than cure, and investing bucketloads into educating children so that they have a critical worldview to begin adulthood with.
Can you come out of the educational experience with a critical worldview when you are only exposed to one side of a social/political equation? If you're taught in school that capitalism is bad and socialism is good how does critical thinking factor into that? When the instructor in the class tells the students that their opinions expressed in class and the papers they turn in must reflect the views of the instructor if they wish to pass the class, how does that create students with a critical worldview? It does, if you consider a one sided view to be desirable.

Throw bucket loads into the equation and you don't even get more of the same you just get more highly compensated administrators.

Don't misunderstand me. The 'willfully ignorant' as you term them are not going to be around forever. The progressive left likes instant gratification and don't really want to wait until their ascension to power resumes. We've got at least two generations that are pretty much totally indoctrinated right now and more are being churned out every year. The new utopia is very much in motion. If the progressive left can just have some patience it's all going to fall right into their laps.

Here's an example. In the Florida primary, in the race for governor completed yesterday, we have narrowed it down to two candidates. A Trump backed Republican and a Bernie backed Democrat. The Democrat is under FBI investigation right now and his chances of becoming governor are pretty much nil but it's hugely important to understand that we have a socialist/communist running against the conservative. I told you, it's happening. Patience, patience.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,671
136
Here's an example. In the Florida primary, in the race for governor completed yesterday, we have narrowed it down to two candidates. A Trump backed Republican and a Bernie backed Democrat. The Democrat is under FBI investigation right now and his chances of becoming governor are pretty much nil but it's hugely important to understand that we have a socialist/communist running against the conservative. I told you, it's happening. Patience, patience.

Just to be clear Andrew Gillum himself is NOT under FBI investigation. You can google or whatever you want to check that out. But its fake news.

Andrew Gillum is a progressive democrat that does not mean a full born eastern eu socialist or communist block russian as much as you would like to belive.

Please stop dipping every word into the hyperbole dip. You'll get fat.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,741
126
What is insane to you is sanity to others.

Unless Trump goes for nukes or starts WW3 your statement doesn't really stick. There are plenty of people who see Trump as a capable POTUS. And, these are doctors, lawyers, teachers, retirees, young, old, your uncle and hell maybe even your dad. Are they insane?

Get off the net and go talk to real people. They all have real jobs, have families, still support Trump and will forever be die hard Republicans. The Republican party isn't going anywhere
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,597
11,282
136
Can you come out of the educational experience with a critical worldview when you are only exposed to one side of a social/political equation? If you're taught in school that capitalism is bad and socialism is good how does critical thinking factor into that?

What weirdshit school did you go to? How on earth did you go from 'teaching a critical worldview' to "capitalism is bad"?

The only times when I was taught that x was bad and y was good in school was in the Religion class (in a supposedly secular state secondary school that only taught Christianity in R.E. until they got pulled up on it and had to do an emergency lecture with an entire year of students in the main hall at the end of one year lasting an hour in order to devote some time to other religions), and what was called "Personal Social Education", to tell people that "drugs are bad".

In my experience, with some minor exceptions that I've just described, schools teach facts. It's not hard to teach critical analysis. When my wife was at college / uni, they were sometimes presented with scientific papers to critique, and some papers were intentionally BS (or at least poorly written / cited) for the students to figure out and explain their basis for their judgement of the material. In mandatory education I'd want kids to be taught scam avoidance techniques, minimising exposure of personal information and other life skills as well.
 
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repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
4,701
3,727
136
Can you come out of the educational experience with a critical worldview when you are only exposed to one side of a social/political equation? If you're taught in school that capitalism is bad and socialism is good how does critical thinking factor into that? When the instructor in the class tells the students that their opinions expressed in class and the papers they turn in must reflect the views of the instructor if they wish to pass the class, how does that create students with a critical worldview? It does, if you consider a one sided view to be desirable.

LMAO. Surprise, surprise, you have never set foot in a school and have no idea what it's actually like.

Yeah, I know I'm wasting my time responding to a troll who can't possibly be real
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Society has the obligation of preventing the insane from harming themselves and in doing so prevent or at least mitigate their potential harm to society.

Insanity is, however, a very dangerous concept in itself.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,936
5,560
136
I'm also well aware of right winger perverted dreams. History tells me they aren't to be ignored. But you go ahead and talk about Democrats.
You do realize that you're arguing from a position of blaring stupidity? Moonie suggested a "final solution" to the republican party "problem". My response was satire intended to mock moonies obviously absurd suggestion, and yet here you are desperately trying to show that I'm an evil republican that ponders exactly what moonie proposed. What's wrong with your brain? Do you not know what satire is?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,133
30,084
146
The answer is obviously to round up all the republicans and put them in controlled camps where they can't cause any more trouble. Perhaps sterilize them so there defective genes are removed from the pool. Then censor any discussion that's against accepted doctrine, with long jail sentences and labor camps for violations. Then we can all live in peace and harmony in our perfect Utopian society.
Live the dream my friend.

I honestly don't think this is a workable solution and the reality is that it would increase the current republican problem that we have. They are already the declared enemies of the truth, and something like that would just validate their worst fantasies.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,004
8,040
136
Is it insanity, or is it a simple combination of how the human mind functions + polarization against the "other"?
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
Is it insanity, or is it a simple combination of how the human mind functions + polarization against the "other"?
What difference does it make when the result is the destruction of the rest of your country and ultimately yourself. And isn't it only a simple combination of how the human mind deals with the insanity threat? Are there rational and irrational threats and shouldn't real ones be dealt with? Aren't the barking mad dangerous?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
You do realize that you're arguing from a position of blaring stupidity? Moonie suggested a "final solution" to the republican party "problem". My response was satire intended to mock moonies obviously absurd suggestion, and yet here you are desperately trying to show that I'm an evil republican that ponders exactly what moonie proposed. What's wrong with your brain? Do you not know what satire is?
I am talking about a danger for which no remedy is known. Some estimates go as high as 80 million dead as a result of the rise of Nazi Germany. That party is no longer legal there. Trump is taking us down that path again. Why would preventing that be stupidity. The vary people who have sworn an oath to defend the constitution against such types have taken his side and are protecting him. What have we always done with traitors. I know what you are doing, pretending to be ignorant of the risk. You can't believe that Trump is trying to create a fascist state, that he trusts only himself to have any say in anything. You keep imagining he's just a bit right of normal instead of a complete and total disaster or that the right won't use violence if that's what it takes to protect him. Insanity is all around us.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,993
13,519
136
One may be in position where you have to cut out the cancer or not.. Either way, if you dont identify the underlying reason and remedy it, it will happen again.
Technology has brought us information of all sorts at our fingertips. Information is power. Information is the ultimate power. Information is weaponized against the core principles of democracy.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
Damned straight. If you like your health-care plan you can keep it.

Some people just don't understand the necessity of telling a lie that is for your own damned good. Some people just don't understand that Democrat lies are based in good and Republican lies are based in evil.

Maybe a wise person such as yourself could explain this to the rest of us if we promise to look adoringly at you while you do so.
I don't think an adoring look is going to cut it. I'm going to need a lot of Heil Moombeams.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Just to be clear Andrew Gillum himself is NOT under FBI investigation. You can google or whatever you want to check that out. But its fake news.
I'll provide a link for everyone and they can decide for themselves. You're technically correct but Gillum is involved and it appears he's involved from several different angles the investigation is taking. The investigation is not complete.

From the article:

"Even if Gillum is not implicated in the government's case, it would be unusual for the FBI to officially clear him, said Tallahassee attorney Steven Andrews, who's previously worked with subjects of FBI investigations."

https://www.tampabay.com/florida-po...igation-hanging-over-andrew-gillums-campaign/

Andrew Gillum is a progressive democrat that does not mean a full born eastern eu socialist or communist block russian as much as you would like to belive.
I have expressed the history behind the moniker "Progressive" here many times. I won't reiterate it now. Anyone desiring to, can do a search. An endorsement from Bernie Sanders is all I need to know.

Wake up. I'm genuinely trying to cheer you guys up and you're fighting back based on some Pavlovian reaction. You're going to win, you just have to have the patience to wait it out.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,424
136
You do realize that you're arguing from a position of blaring stupidity? Moonie suggested a "final solution" to the republican party "problem". My response was satire intended to mock moonies obviously absurd suggestion, and yet here you are desperately trying to show that I'm an evil republican that ponders exactly what moonie proposed. What's wrong with your brain? Do you not know what satire is?

Maybe you should take your own advise, dumbass. Or is satire only something YOU are allowed to do?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,424
136
I'll provide a link for everyone and they can decide for themselves. You're technically correct but Gillum is involved and it appears he's involved from several different angles the investigation is taking. The investigation is not complete.

From the article:

"Even if Gillum is not implicated in the government's case, it would be unusual for the FBI to officially clear him, said Tallahassee attorney Steven Andrews, who's previously worked with subjects of FBI investigations."

https://www.tampabay.com/florida-po...igation-hanging-over-andrew-gillums-campaign/

I have expressed the history behind the moniker "Progressive" here many times. I won't reiterate it now. Anyone desiring to, can do a search. An endorsement from Bernie Sanders is all I need to know.

Wake up. I'm genuinely trying to cheer you guys up and you're fighting back based on some Pavlovian reaction. You're going to win, you just have to have the patience to wait it out.

There is literally nothing you won't believe so long as it coincides with your feelings.

Your ability to think critically is severely lacking if not missing altogether.

Lol at the useful idiot and his confirmation bias.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
What's wrong with your brain? Do you not know what satire is?
I'm being as serious as a heart attack when I say this. The left is absolutely incapable of discerning sarcasm. Everything is literal for them. Same with humor that occurs outside of their bubble. They have no capacity to ascertain what is humor and what is not. Humor tinged with sarcasm is the worst for them. That, to use some ancient vernacular does not compute for them.

Trump says; "If Russia or any other country or person has Hillary Clinton's 33,000 illegally deleted emails, perhaps they should share them with the FBI!" and they don't see it as humor and they certainly don't see it as humor tinged by sarcasm. Not only can they not comprehend what was said, they assign a totally different connotation to it. Here we are over two years later and the left still believes his humor based statement to mean that Trump is asking the Russians to hack! It's absurd enough to be laughable and would be if two years later they weren't still bleating out the same garbage.

And the above is very, very far from an isolated incident.
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,441
9,343
136
I'm being as serious as a heart attack when I say this. The left is absolutely incapable of discerning sarcasm. Everything is literal for them. Same with humor that occurs outside of their bubble. They have no capacity to ascertain what is humor and what is not. Humor tinged with sarcasm is the worst for them. That, to use some ancient vernacular does not compute for them.

Ah yes. I've always linked the conservative right with a rich vein of humour! I mean I often read what they say and have a little chuckle to myself.
 
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