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does phil jackson suck as a coach?

H

hahher

Senior member
it seems almost like his whole strategy has been "throw it into shaq" it has to work one of these games right? and each game the strategy gets worse: "we'll throw it into shaq most of the time, but when pistons start a run, we'll immediately throw it into shaq", etc

why has he been unable to respond to detroit? what adjustments has he made? isn't it laughable that luke walton was a key player for lakers in game 2? also laughable how larry brown dealt with that nuisance?
 
phil jackson is not an X's and O's guy. well, he may be, but that is not his point. his point is to get diverse elements of a basketball team to work together as a team. he managed to do it with shaq and kobe earlier, but this may just be too much star power.
 
Not that I'm a Laker fan, but throwing it in to Shaq is the only thing that has kept the games close. When Detroit goes on a run, it's because Shaq hasn't had the ball. And about Phil as a coach, well, plenty of coaches could have led the teams he's inherited to titles. Has he ever built a team to a winner? I'd say he's an average coach at best, he can't seem to abandon the triangle even when it's obvious he needs to sometimes.
 
Jackson is overrated. Collins was ready to win in Chicago when Jackson replaced him. The only thing in Collins way was Detroit and they were dismantled. And with Shaq and Kobe on the same team, it was just a matter of time, nothing specific to Jackson. This year and the year before exposed him for the fraud that he is. Just like the years Jordan retired, he couldn't win in Chicago and he left after Jordans second retirement.
 
He's not really that great, he's just had great teams to work with. Of course you're going to win a lot when you have MJ, Scottie Pippen, and Dennis Rodman on the same team. And of course your going to win with Shaq and Kobe. He's an average coach with great teams.

Except now, becasue DETROIT OWNS!!! Hamilton + Ben Wallace pwn Shaq and Kobe! DETROIT IN 5!
 
He's definitely overrated, just like Red Aeurbach.

Pretty much any decent coach in the league would have won 7 of the 9 titles he won, with the talented teams he's been fortunate enough to coach.

Larry Brown easily would have done the 9 out of 9 sweep as well, possibly without some of the Western Conference finals nailbiters experienced (2000 and 2002).
 
He's good at bringing diff personalities and having them work together... he will go down as one of the greatest of all time, yes.
 
To ask that question would imply that Phil actually coaches sometimes. He doesn't. He's a manager, and a good one usually, but little more.
 
Originally posted by: Childs
Jackson is overrated. Collins was ready to win in Chicago when Jackson replaced him. The only thing in Collins way was Detroit and they were dismantled. And with Shaq and Kobe on the same team, it was just a matter of time, nothing specific to Jackson. This year and the year before exposed him for the fraud that he is. Just like the years Jordan retired, he couldn't win in Chicago and he left after Jordans second retirement.
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Um, Jordan retired because Phil left, not the other way around. If Phil had stayed, the team would have stayed together and won at least a couple more rings.

And the "throw it in to Shaq" strategy is the best one for the Lakers, and would have won them last night's game if Kobe would have done the same as the rest of his teammates.
 
Actually, the Laker's problem during game 4 was that they (specifically Kobe) went away from throwing it down into Shaq during the 2nd quarter.

When you've got a 500lb gorilla on your team let the gorilla do his thing.
 
He's a great coach. Larry Brown IMO is a better coach. 88 Kansas Jayhawks..04 Detroit Pistons, both over-matched, but out-played their opponents.
 
Phil Jackson is a great Coach. He especially does a good job with his recruiting.

I do have to comment on the series. The lakers are obviously slower. While I'm not a Shaq fan and think he's a big dumb animal with no game at the line, he makes an INCREDIBLE difference when he's in the game. He's able to make things happen up close and intimidate the opponent by using his size. However, in this particular game, his MVP status only carries him so far because Wallace is soo much faster and is getting rebounds before Shaq can react. I don't think it's over yet, but then....the Lakers haven't been showing much life lately. I'd like to see them win one more just to mix it up and make things more interesting before they lose. 😉
 
You have got to be kidding me? Phil Jackson is a bad coach? He calls timeouts and doesn't call timeouts at the perfect times.

The lakers had shaq and kobe before phil got there and never advanced past the first round. He's 9-0 in the finals. He's never lost a conference finals. What the hell do you expect? When you judge a coach you look at his wins. He also led a team to the greatest record in basketball history. All your coach should do is win and he does that.

If you guys don't like him send him to us, the Nuggets would love Phil as a coach. Bzdelik is the sorriest coach ever...give me Phil Jackson anyday
 
i still remember many years ago, pregame announcers were talking about phil's book that just came out. jeff van gundy walks over, picks up the book, points at it and says "i can summarize this book in two words: michael jordan", then leaves.

and if throwing the ball to shaq everytime will win, why doesn't phil just bench kobe when kobe doesn't go with the plan?
 
Originally posted by: hahherand if throwing the ball to shaq everytime will win, why doesn't phil just bench kobe when kobe doesn't go with the plan?
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It won't win everytime but that was the best thing the Lakers had going for them in Game 4. And it is a very good question as to why Phil Jackson didn't do something about Kobe's selfish play during that game.
 
He is not a bad coach. The problem he has now is 2 overrated players and 1 injured player. Payton and Kobe are both overrated. Kobe has good games, but he has disappeared too many times in these playoffs to be considered great. Payton has been burned defensively, and offensively hasn't done squat. Malone is hurt and is obviously not playing like he normally does (although I think he is still a very solid player). The Lakers were overrated this season, and I am glad the Pistons are going to win. All of the pundits will be wrong, which is the main reason I don't listen to them anymore. Kudos to Brown for taking a less talented, but bettter team and likely winning the championship in the next game. I feel bad for Shaq because he has a lion's heart, but just doesn't have the players around him to win it this year. He played phenomenally in game 4, but unfortunately had very little help.
 
PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, BAN ALL SPORTS POSTS IN ATOT, YOU ARE MAKING MY EYES BLEED

Remember the word scramble at the start of the movie "Sneakers'? If we did that here it would say "Too many idiots" instead of too many secrets.

I don't even know where to begin.. Wyvrn, you may not like Kobe, but he is very likely the best overall player in the NBA - he's 25, and has, what, 3 titles? How many did Jordan have at 25? That would be zero. I'm not saying he's better than MJ - he isn't, and likely never will be, but he's at the very least one of the best 5 players in the NBA. The Piston's entire defensive plan is designed to stop him - T.Prince is doing an excellent job of getting a long arm up in Kobe's face when he shoots, and the Pistons as a team are rotating like crazy to Kobe if/when he gets past Prince. He is not disappearing - he's facing an excellent defensive team out to stop him - notice they aren't even doubling down on Shaq, to make sure they don't leave Kobe open. I'll give you that Payton is only a fraction of the player he once was.

Jeff Van Gundy, whose only claim to anything is looking like an infant holding on for dear life to Alonzo Mourning's leg, can't tie Phil's shoes as a coach, so please spare us any comments from him - his idea of coaching the Knicks to play defense was to trap all over the place with your guards, and just hammer anyone coming throught he traps into the paint - those were much uglier teams to watch than this year's Pistons.

Phil Jackson is one of the best coaches ever, period. Yes, he has had some great players on his teams, but there is so much more to coaching than having great players. How many titles did the Jazz win with Malone and Stockton in their prime? Those teams were loaded. There are tons of examples of very talented teams not winning titles. Phil puts it all together. There is more to coaching NBA teams than just the X's and O's - not that Phil has any deficiencies in the X's and O's, but that is a supposed 'knock' against him too.

Walton playing a key role in game 2, by the way, is because of Jackson, not a strike against him. He is notorious for giving young players minutes late in games, in key situations, so they are ready for that come playoff time. Rush's contributions in the Minn series are another example.

The Lakers, down the stretch of the regular season, and in the playoffs, are only running the triangle ~30% of the time, so please don't tell me he "can't abandon the triangle when he needs to".

The fact of the matter in this series is that the Lakers are hobbled - Malone has a torn knee ligament - D.Fisher, who was huge against Minn, also has a bad knee - those two are options #3 and #4 for the Laker offense - and without any significant contribution from those two, the Pistons only have to worry about Shaq and Kobe - and they have elected to concentrate on shutting Kobe down as much as possible - don't forget too, that Kobe has to play D on Hamilton much of the time, and with his bum shoulder, I'm guessing he isn't fighting through all those picks 100%.

I'm not a Laker fan - I just love, coach, and referee basketball.

The people who say Phil Jackson isn't a great coach are the same people who say that Bill Russell wasn't that good, or that Joe Torre isn't a great manager.
 
Originally posted by: 95SS
Not that I'm a Laker fan, but throwing it in to Shaq is the only thing that has kept the games close. When Detroit goes on a run, it's because Shaq hasn't had the ball. And about Phil as a coach, well, plenty of coaches could have led the teams he's inherited to titles. Has he ever built a team to a winner? I'd say he's an average coach at best, he can't seem to abandon the triangle even when it's obvious he needs to sometimes.
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hmmm, Riley had Magic and Kareem, Red Auerbach had Bill Russell . . .

name ONE coach that DIDN'T win with HOF material?
 
Originally posted by: NeoV
PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, BAN ALL SPORTS POSTS IN ATOT, YOU ARE MAKING MY EYES BLEED

*snip*
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Like you, I don't even know where to begin.

First off, Big Chief Triangle's biggest X and O victory, the triangle offense, isn't even his offense. If you must praise someone for it praise Tex Winter, not Philip. It should also be mentioned that the best offense in the world won't win you a championship unless you have the players to excecute it, which he's always had. Also, along this same X and O theme, tell me what adjustments he's made in this series. The most obvious one that he hasn't made is Payton. Has it not been fairly obvious that Payton is not helping them at all? With the minor exception of last night, of course. Worthless from an offensive standpoint, a sieve on defense, etc.. Even a dinged Fisher is better than Payton at this point. You're right, he's a great strategy coach.

Second, I can't stop laughing at how you're giving Phil credit for Rush and Walton's contributions. That's honestly too funny. Actually, nevermind, I agree with you. On the other hand, though, you've got a horribly selfish player in Kobe Bryant and just a flat out bad attitude, along with terrible play, in Gary Payton. If Rush and Walton are products of his good coaching Bryant and Payton must also be products of his poor coaching. Agree?

I could go on but I doubt it would matter. Frankly, we'll never know how good of a coach he really is because he's never been in a challenging postion where he had to make the difference. He's always had the players to take care of things for him and make him look good. Well, check that. He's being challenged right now and we can all see how good of a job he's doing.
 
Larry Brown hands down for me. I think this series has proven who is the better coach. Brown got his guys to buy in and is winning with team play. Philip just looks confused as he watches his team get flat out out coached.
 
Originally posted by: NeoV
PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, BAN ALL SPORTS POSTS IN ATOT, YOU ARE MAKING MY EYES BLEED

Remember the word scramble at the start of the movie "Sneakers'? If we did that here it would say "Too many idiots" instead of too many secrets.

I don't even know where to begin.. Wyvrn, you may not like Kobe, but he is very likely the best overall player in the NBA - he's 25, and has, what, 3 titles? How many did Jordan have at 25? That would be zero. I'm not saying he's better than MJ - he isn't, and likely never will be, but he's at the very least one of the best 5 players in the NBA. The Piston's entire defensive plan is designed to stop him - T.Prince is doing an excellent job of getting a long arm up in Kobe's face when he shoots, and the Pistons as a team are rotating like crazy to Kobe if/when he gets past Prince. He is not disappearing - he's facing an excellent defensive team out to stop him - notice they aren't even doubling down on Shaq, to make sure they don't leave Kobe open. I'll give you that Payton is only a fraction of the player he once was.

Jeff Van Gundy, whose only claim to anything is looking like an infant holding on for dear life to Alonzo Mourning's leg, can't tie Phil's shoes as a coach, so please spare us any comments from him - his idea of coaching the Knicks to play defense was to trap all over the place with your guards, and just hammer anyone coming throught he traps into the paint - those were much uglier teams to watch than this year's Pistons.

Phil Jackson is one of the best coaches ever, period. Yes, he has had some great players on his teams, but there is so much more to coaching than having great players. How many titles did the Jazz win with Malone and Stockton in their prime? Those teams were loaded. There are tons of examples of very talented teams not winning titles. Phil puts it all together. There is more to coaching NBA teams than just the X's and O's - not that Phil has any deficiencies in the X's and O's, but that is a supposed 'knock' against him too.

Walton playing a key role in game 2, by the way, is because of Jackson, not a strike against him. He is notorious for giving young players minutes late in games, in key situations, so they are ready for that come playoff time. Rush's contributions in the Minn series are another example.

The Lakers, down the stretch of the regular season, and in the playoffs, are only running the triangle ~30% of the time, so please don't tell me he "can't abandon the triangle when he needs to".

The fact of the matter in this series is that the Lakers are hobbled - Malone has a torn knee ligament - D.Fisher, who was huge against Minn, also has a bad knee - those two are options #3 and #4 for the Laker offense - and without any significant contribution from those two, the Pistons only have to worry about Shaq and Kobe - and they have elected to concentrate on shutting Kobe down as much as possible - don't forget too, that Kobe has to play D on Hamilton much of the time, and with his bum shoulder, I'm guessing he isn't fighting through all those picks 100%.

I'm not a Laker fan - I just love, coach, and referee basketball.

The people who say Phil Jackson isn't a great coach are the same people who say that Bill Russell wasn't that good, or that Joe Torre isn't a great manager.
Click to expand...

When did Jordan turn pro? When did Kobe turn pro? I'll help ya out, Kobe turned pro at 18, Jordan turned pro at 21. Go figure...

Comparing Kobe to MJ is ridiculous. Kobe may score points but he can't be a leader as we are seeing right now.... but I agree, Kobe is a great player, not a great leader though...

I agree about your thoughts of Phil Jackson as well.
 
Stop whinning, Phil Jackson is an excellent coach and he got 9 rings to show for it. People can say he wins because he has Jordan, Kobe and Shaq, but those great players don't respect just any coach. To earn the respect of those players, you gotta be an excellent coach.

It's kinda pointless to compare Larry Brown and Phil Jackson. They are two completely different types of coaches. Larry Brown is a teacher and an X and O coach. Phil Jackson is a better motivator and communicator. I would say Larry Brown will be a better coach if he is handed the right personality who follows his philosophy. Phil Jackson will be better in handling stars with big ego.

Larry Brown can't handle star personality that well, Allen Iverson is an example of that. Piston is a perfect team for him because they are a hardworking bunch with good mentallity. No one is at the super star level yet with me-me mentallity, and everyone buys in Larry Brown's philosophy. Phil Jackson is probably not as fundamentally sound as Larry Brown, but he is great in getting people with huge ego problem to play together and get the role players to play their roles to perfection.

Each coach can succeed given the right circumstances, and both coaches are the best in the business.
 
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