Does One Vote Matter?

[nageov3t]

I got into a fight with my roommate last night over dinner.

He was complaining that Howard Stern is going to be going off the air because of legistlation being passed. I don't really care about Howard Stern, so I can't comment on the truth behind his statement, but while he was complaining about legistlation, I asked him if he knew who his representatives were in the House and Senate. He said that he didn't, and that he's never voted, because one vote won't make a difference.

So how do I argue against that? I tried explaining to him how it's appaling to be apathetic towards the government (especially while complaining about it at the same time), but wasn't able to make a dent.

People like him really piss me off... I don't mind him not voting in the presidential election, but not voting your your congressional representatives is just ignorant.

 

[StageLeft]

Unfortunately he's right. Although I condemn a person who knows nothing about the political system (which is more important than they'll admit, since it rules them), your roomate is quite right that a single vote, except in very small elections, never matters. There never has been, and never will be, the case where literally a single vote decides a president against another one. Most people vote because they're disgusted by the fact that they, in practical terms, actually have no say in the matter (yes their vote is worth something, but so little as to be not really worth mentioning), so using self-delusion they go and vote, as if their single vote matters.

If you're a juror on a jury of 12 one vote is worth a lot. But in a country of millions it's just not. This truth is really not spoken about much because if everybody was aware of it and actually thought about it you'd get potentially so few votes that the political system would stop mirroring the public's desires at all (as it is now, if democrats win 60 vs republicans 40 in an election the chances are that an informal poll of the public would show similar numbers, so it's really good that a general ignorance of statistics affects the public).

 

[oreagan]

If he's the age I'd assume, his vote is important for the same reason mine is: If our age bracket doesn't wake the funk up and vote, no one is ever going to care about education or correcting social security, two issues from which seniors get no benefits.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: oreagan
If he's the age I'd assume, his vote is important for the same reason mine is: If our age bracket doesn't wake the funk up and vote, no one is ever going to care about education or correcting social security, two issues from which seniors get no benefits.

Most people of the age we're assuming he is are ignorant though. I think that such self-centeredness is natural in younger adults/kids, etc.

 

[viivo]

Aren't the people who say they don't vote the ones who would otherwise go for someone like Nader?

Ah ha, so it's apathy that's been keeping a third party down.

EDIT: But to answer the post, there is no answer to that as technically it is true - one vote has never mattered, just the accumulation of people saying one vote doesn't matter.

 

[rbV5]

If you payed any attention to last presidential election...EVERY vote counts....well potentially anyway...well the ones that actually get counted anyway...

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: rbV5
If you payed any attention to last presidential election...EVERY vote counts....well potentially anyway...well the ones that actually get counted anyway...

But even with that election split by a hair a single vote didn't mean a damn thing. viivo is right

But to answer the post, there is no answer to that as technically it is true - one vote has never mattered, just the accumulation of people saying one vote doesn't matter.

 

[DanJ]

The whole my vote doesn't count ideology is pretty lame. The most potentially powerful party in the U.S. is those who don't vote. If they all voted, as they have the most people, they could elect anyone; even if they weren't a Dem or a Repub.

 

[TheBDB]

one vote has never mattered, just the accumulation of people saying one vote doesn't matter.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: DanJ
The whole my vote doesn't count ideology is pretty lame. The most potentially powerful party in the U.S. is those who don't vote. If they all voted, as they have the most people, they could elect anyone; even if they weren't a Dem or a Repub.

Yes, but that doesn't change the indisuptable statistical fact that one vote in an election of great size is essentially negligible in relevance.

 

[cricky]

Originally posted by: rbV5
If you payed any attention to last presidential election...EVERY vote counts....well potentially anyway...well the ones that actually get counted anyway...

Not to sound out an old and used line, but if every vote in the last election had counted, Gore would have been president. Popular vote-wise.

Our election system is 51 seperate elections, not one nationwide election. The results are then lumped together as a whole in the electoral college system. Larger (population) states get a larger share, etc. etc. We've all been through it at the last election.

Does your ONE vote count? No. Does your action of going out and placing that one vote count? Yes. Does the action of your voting on congressional members for your state count? Yes.

 

[rbV5]

Our election system is 51 seperate elections, not one nationwide election. The results are then lumped together as a whole in the electoral college system.

The electors vote for the president 5 weeks after the "election" and are not required to pick the candidate with the majority of the popular vote, although usually, its a formallity. Four times the winner of the popular vote wasn't elected President.

The popular vote is a collection of single votes..yes they count. In fact, in Oregon a non-vote in an election to raise taxes (other than a November ballot) counts effectively as 2 votes due to the fact that a majority of registered voters must vote for the results to count at all. If you're against a taxing measure...simply don't vote.

 

[oreagan]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Our election system is 51 seperate elections, not one nationwide election. The results are then lumped together as a whole in the electoral college system.

The electors vote for the president 5 weeks after the "election" and are not required to pick the candidate with the majority of the popular vote, although usually, its a formallity. Four times the winner of the popular vote wasn't elected President.

The popular vote is a collection of single votes..yes they count. In fact, in Oregon a non-vote in an election to raise taxes (other than a November ballot) counts effectively as 2 votes due to the fact that a majority of registered voters must vote for the results to count at all. If you're against a taxing measure...simply don't vote.

Due to the electoral system, however, my Kerry vote in Virginia will be, in effect, meaningless.

 

[biostud]

1 vote doesn't count, but if got all his other lazy friends to vote they might start rocking the boat.

 

[chrisms]

Government sucks

 

[piasabird]

Bush would not have been elected if just a hundred or so people had voted differently in Florida. So, I beg to differ that a single vote does matter. It is only the vote that is not cast that doesnt matter. Probably democrats would be in the White House if more Democratic Voters would have voted.

 

[chowderhead]

Originally posted by: oreagan

Due to the electoral system, however, my Kerry vote in Virginia will be, in effect, meaningless.

I agree that most likely that Virginia will go to GWB this fall. That is what is wrong with the electoral college. One vote should count the same as other vote in another state but the votes are weighted more or less to give smaller states more weight (by virtue of the 2 electoral votes bonus). It also makes many states and voters essentially meaningless also as many states won't be contested. Of course if people collectively believe this, it may lead to "upsets" or surprises.
This poll is a month old but look at Virginia
Virginia
47% - GWB
45% - Kerry that is way too close

 

[cricky]

Current Electoral Situation.

Nice site to get a view of how the electoral looks on a given day. Be warned, it swings wildly since this is all based on polls. Yesterday, Bush was up by 35 electoral. Today, I see Kerry is sitting pretty.

They have some good information on the electoral system here, albeit it does have a left slant.

 

[ciba]

That is what is wrong with the electoral college. One vote should count the same as other vote in another state but the votes are weighted more or less to give smaller states more weight (by virtue of the 2 electoral votes bonus)

Yeah, that constitution sucks!

Remember, we're the United STATES not the united individuals.

 

[Stunt]

If u argue with your buddy a lot, then tell him fine, don't vote, but remember, you not voting makes mine worth twice as much.
If half the country votes, and it is a close race, 25% of the people could choose a government.

Then look up the stats on wierd sh!t that 25% of ppl agree with. That can be why voting is important.

 

[Stunt]

Or, u can find something that is a major factor in his life and compare it to the different parties.

If he has a sick relative, or grandparents/parents that could get sick. Tell him how important social programs are for those people. If you relate the politics to people's lives, they care more.

 

[SemperFi]

I didn't think it would take 5 posts before the right answer came out.

Florida was less than 400 votes. There were like 4 other states that had less than 4000. In a state wide election that is close my friend.

Soap box on\

I was not raised in a patriotic fashon. My father didn't sit at the supper table and talk about freedom and America. He did set the example though out taking advantage of it in his own business. I became very patriotic on a cold February day in 1986 in South Korea. We were there for a military exercise. Anyhow I am in the back of a truck riding through town and the people would stop what they were doing and wave at us. Then I noticed people walking outside just to wave. Quickly there were people lined at the curb. It was like a parade. It was an incredible feeling I will never forget. It was obvious they were glad we were there. Anybody who has been in the military knows that in america in the back of the truck going down the street will get some waves and some one fingered salutes.

Today I believe that voting is more than a right. It is a duty. Not a duty to america a duty to yourself. I don't care which side you are on. You should take the responsability to do a little research and vote your concious. I hear people say I wouldn't vote for either one just to find out they didn't make a choice in the primary. Of course you don't like either you didn't make a choice when you could. My favorite line is in a rock song "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." Quiz on the artist later.

Have you ever gone to a movie? You pay what $10 to get in? Yet on the news they say Titanic made $300 million. Are you saying your $10 didn't count? Of course not. It is more like a football game. Two teams goes in and one comes out a loser. The people cheering for the loser are just mad for 4 years instead of a couple of weeks.

The point is if 90% of the population would vote maybe the winner would be more clear cut than just a thousand votes. Like the movie example you are not one voice you are one among many. The more that join in the louder the group.

Stand and be counted Americans! :beer: Freedom isn't exactly free. Casting a vote can't be that costly.

Rant off\

Semper Fi

 

[Bonesdad]

Good answer SemperFi...now I don't have to type !

 

[Pliablemoose]

I live in Texas, if I hacked the voting computers & threw in ~ a million votes for Kerry, it wouldn't influence all the electoral votes going to Bush...

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.html

But I vote & poop on people who don't...

IMHO, if someone bitches about politics & hasn't voted, they need to STFU...

 

[seawolf21]

Unfortunately, one vote doesn't really matter. It's not even due to the size of the voting public. One vote doesn't matter because of the electorial college. When you have winner takes all in each state, voters of the minority party in each state is effectively silenced.