Does LGA2011 have a future beyond Sandy Bridge-E?

[Axonn]

I've been thinking to buy a Sandy Bridge E. Probably the cheapest one. I don't need 6 cores, but I do hate the integrated GPUs in normal Sandy Bridge. I don't need that junk in my machine and I don't want to pay for it. I've always been a "discrete" guy ::- D and I don't do any video encoding.

But the fact of the matter is that Socket 1155 has a lot of life in it. Ivy Bridge will come for that socket. It's a mainstream socket and has a good future because of that.

So..................

What do you know of LGA 2011?

Wiki says "Socket 2011 also has to ensure platform scalability beyond eight cores and 20 MB of cache." --- but no mention of Ivy Bridge on that page...

 

[Rifter]

Ivy will be on 2011, 1155 will only get 4 core Ivy but i'll bet 2011 will see 8 core at the top end.

2011 will have a better lifespan than 1155. Just like 1366 outlived 1156.

 

[PreferLinux]

I'll bet 2011 will see 8 cores at release, but only in Xeon. It may then get 8 in IB-E, and possibly 10 in Xeon.

By the way, you don't pay extra for the IGP – you pay the same amount for a 2500K as a 760 as they are at the same price points, and one has the IGP while the other doesn't. So same price for with or without.

 

[toyota]

I'll bet 2011 will see 8 cores at release, but only in Xeon. It may then get 8 in IB-E, and possibly 10 in Xeon.

By the way, you don't pay extra for the IGP – you pay the same amount for a 2500K as a 760 as they are at the same price points, and one has the IGP while the other doesn't. So same price for with or without.

if you are going to claim we do not pay for graphics then I guess we do not pay for but 2 cores either since the E8500 is also at the same price point...

 

[grkM3]

Ivybridge was fiest only designed for s2011 and then intel decided to make them on 1155 also.2011 will definitely get ivybridge and could possibly support haswell.

 

[AdamK47]

What do you know of LGA 2011?

I want it.

 

[podspi]

Nothing is for certain (Intel could decide to to switch to a new socket if it wanted to) but I doubt they will. All the evidence so far points to IB being available for both 1155 and 2011. Keep in mind that 2011 isn't even out yet, though. And rumor has it Intel has dropped a few features. It could be that by the time IB-E is out, you'll want a newer chipset to match with it anyway, given the price points IB-E will likely be at...

 

[Ben90]

I've been thinking to buy a Sandy Bridge E. Probably the cheapest one. I don't need 6 cores, but I do hate the integrated GPUs in normal Sandy Bridge. I don't need that junk in my machine and I don't want to pay for it. I've always been a "discrete" guy ::- D and I don't do any video encoding.

Unfortunately the enterprise oriented features of the 2011 platform is going to well make up that cost of having an on die GPU. Buy a platform that suits your needs, not because it has extra stuff.

Lets jump back a few years ago to when motherboard manufactures were first starting to pull the PATA connection off the board. Since most of us enthusiasts had left PATA HDDs behind by then, your desire to ditch the iGPU is parallel to wanting a board without PATA. Yes it was possible to find SATA/SAS only boards, but they all we aimed at the enthusiast costing $300+.

I could do the math if needed, but I'd imagine JUST the ~$30 extra bucks for the x79 chipset overshadows the manufacturing cost of adding an iGPU to a CPU. Now the question is reversed. Do you need the extra junk x79 offers?

 

[pantsaregood]

Ivybridge was fiest only designed for s2011 and then intel decided to make them on 1155 also.2011 will definitely get ivybridge and could possibly support haswell.

Ivy Bridge was hardly "designed" for LGA 2011. It was always destined for LGA 1155. Aside from lower power consumption and an improved IGP, Ivy Bridge is nothing more than a die shrink.

Ivy Bridge has yet to be announced for LGA 2011, but it will eventually be released in the form of Ivy Bridge-E to replace Sandy Bridge-E. Ivy Bridge-E, in lacking an IGP, will be even more a die shrink of Sandy Bridge-E than IB is to SB.

To make it simple...
Sandy Bridge, Sandy Bridge-E, Ivy Bridge, and the inevitable Ivy Bridge-E are not different "designs." They are all based on the Sandy Bridge microarchitecture. Ivy Bridge is to Sandy Bridge as Westmere is to Nehalem.

Also, to drive home the fact that IB was never "designed" for LGA 2011, take into account the fact that Ivy Bridge was always intended to have an improved IGP over SB. If Ivy Bridge was designed for LGA 2011, no IGP would have ever been mentioned.

Haswell will likely use DDR4 (or whatever else the next major step in memory is), meaning LGA 1155 and LGA 2011 have almost zero chance of a future beyond Ivy Bridge.

 

[Axonn]

Rifterut: thank you for the confirmation.

PreferLinux: that's not true I think. Sandy Bridge E is cheaper than 2600 K although it is better. Why do you think this is so? It's not only the fact that it will appear at competition with Bulldozer, but ALSO because they don't need to use silicon for the stinky IGP.

Come on, it's pure logic: no IGP, no transistors, cheaper to manufacture. Simple as that. Of course, I'm aware that for them it might be actually cheaper to just leave the IGP in there in some cases, but that's only because of factory concerns. Once they get a factory to build without IGP, it WILL BE CHEAPER to manufacture. Simple math.

grkM3: If they do Haswell on 2011 it would be great. After all, 2011 is a lot of pins . They can channel a lot of bits through there ;;- ). I doubt, however, that the MoBo will support it.

AdamK47: LOL ::- D.

podspi: I was not thinking at Ivy Bridge - E. But at Ivy Bridge *period*. We can't be sure there's even going to be an IB-E. So I was thinking Sandy Bridge - E, and, if there won't be any IB-E, then, the hell with it, I'll just buy an IB. With our without IGP, it would be better than Sandy anyway. Or am I to understand that LGA 2011 is a non-IGP socket, which I doubt.

Ben90: a very wise answer Ben ::- ). You are correct ::- D. That's something I have to confess that I did not consider.... I absolutely do NOT need a gazillion PCI lanes. I am a fan of single GPUs. We'll see how it shapes up, but you brought a good point. I might be losing more than I save buy buying an enthusiast platform which I don't need, compared to a very performant mainstream platform with, ok, an IGP I won't use.

pantsaregood: As I told grkM3, even if Haswell is LGA 2011, I doubt any MoBo will support it.

 

[pantsaregood]

LGA 2011 is absolutely a non-IGP socket.

Ivy Bridge-E will most certainly exist. SB and SB-E both use Sandy Bridge cores. Ivy Bridge will be no different. Producing both Sandy Bridge-E and Ivy Bridge would split production and decrease yield in doing so, which is something Intel doesn't want.

Also, the ~$300 SB-E will be only a few percent faster than a 2600K at the same clock speed. Benchmarks where the two perform identically won't be uncommon. The ~$300 SB-E, however, will be quite a pain to overclock, as getting it to 4.5 GHz (pretty standard SB overclock) would require a 150 MHz BCLK with a 30x multiplier, rather than simply running 45*100. It isn't really difficult, but it also isn't as simple as overclocking a 2600K.

 

[RussianSensation]

I've been thinking to buy a Sandy Bridge E. Probably the cheapest one. I don't need 6 cores, ..

So you are going to buy a 4-core quad without an unlocked multiplier, and then pay extra for 4 sticks of DDR3, and way more for the motherboard and all that to "futureproof"?

I am sad to see that our forum continues to do a sub-par job in teaching performance/$!

LGA2011 only makes sense for 6 core processors. If you don't intend to buy it for that, stick to 1155, save $$ and just upgrade to Haswell in 2013. We still don't have a concrete release date for X79. It's probably 2-3 months away, may even get postponed into 2012.

 

[ed29a]

Ivy will be on 2011, 1155 will only get 4 core Ivy but i'll bet 2011 will see 8 core at the top end.

2011 will have a better lifespan than 1155. Just like 1366 outlived 1156.

[Citation needed]

 

[Axonn]

RussianSensation: that's why I'm here talking to you guys ;;- ). Because I'm not all knowing. And tips like yours and Ben90's are very welcomed. BTW, I didn't want to buy the quad Sandy-E because of this Forum, but because I have this OBSESSION against IGPs ::- D. Which is stupid, I'm the first to admit it ::- D.

But I really wanted Quad without IGP. But I'm slowly giving up on this. I think of how much the platform will cost, not to mention that it may have bugs (and I really want to buy something no later than then the 10th of December when it will still be freshly launched - I don't want to risk another Intel Fail).

As for Bull-Doze-"arrrr", no matter how much I like AMD (and I really do), I'm simply not going to buy a CPU which is born on a sinking socket. I'd rather buy that damn Sandy with its farty IGP *laugh*. AMD will get my money for the GPU though...

pantsaregood: Rifterut said "Ivy will be on 2011, 1155 will only get 4 core Ivy but i'll bet 2011 will see 8 core at the top end."

Through that, I understand that LGA 2011 will see 8 cores including 8 cores with IGP.

So what you're saying is that the Ivy Bridge with IGP will either use 1155 or come up with a new socket, but not use LGA 2011, right?

 

[greenhawk]

I want it.

LOL

all that is needed to be known is as stated above

Personally, the $600 cpu (SB-E) was looking good, but given the issues, being in on the inital release is not something I feel is going to be a good idea. Getting the cheaper $300 is out as it is being delayed at last check (make better use of production or just force early adoptors to the expencive chips?). So while Intel is aiming for a release this year, I suspect the March 2012 date given is far more likly.

At that point, IB-E is ment to possibly be in the following month with IB-E I suspect being even a year or more behind.

If SB-E was on it's original relase schedual of about now, I would be on it, with the push backs and delays and hacking of features, I might as well go IB.

As to the s2011's living, it is already going to be a year behind the s1155, so no idea which will have a longer presence in retail, but then looking at the wiki on it, it appears that while IB on s1155 has some new chipsets comming, the s2011 does not (around IB-E release), so I highly suspect it will take IB-E without any issues. Even given the number of pins and feature/connects SB-E has, I do not see intel having a need for a new socket too fast/soon.

 

[pantsaregood]

Someone said IB was "designed" for LGA 2011. That is absolutely not true.

Ivy Bridge will have a presence on LGA 1155, 1356, and 2011, just as Sandy Bridge does. No more, no less. Only LGA 1155 will support IGPs.

 

[greenhawk]

Haswell will likely use DDR4 (or whatever else the next major step in memory is), meaning LGA 1155 and LGA 2011 have almost zero chance of a future beyond Ivy Bridge.

possibly, but if DDR4 is too expencive / not in the needed production numbers, then I suspect the inital cpus that support it will be able to support both ddr3 and ddr4 (not at the same time, just one or the other). So some cpus will be of one type and the others the next. Just like AMD did for the ddr2/ddr3 change over (new socket by a pin, but the their was the same cpu on both sockets).

time will tell either way.

 

[greenhawk]

1) Sandy Bridge E is cheaper than 2600 K although it is better.

2) Come on, it's pure logic: no IGP, no transistors, cheaper to manufacture.

3) am I to understand that LGA 2011 is a non-IGP socket, which I doubt.

1) it is not cheaper because of being cheaper to make. It is more a marketing issue to get people to buy / get into the s2011 system. That way people upgrade to the "better" cpus in future and intel makes a killing on them.

It is the loss-leader cpu of the range.

Besides, it is ment to only perform around the 2600K's performance anyway so not like people would pay extra for the same performance (for the cpu, let alone the more expencive motherboard).

2) true, but most of the cost is in the development and testing of the chip. The actual cost in terms of raw silicon is near nothing. Being able to squeeze more cpus per waffer might add up, but that depends on the size of the GPU as cache takes a excessive amount of space vs the other parts of a CPU.

3) correct. No GPU on the cpu so no pins allocated to allow one in future either (99% sure, have not sat down with the tech specs of the socket to check every pin's function).

 

[pantsaregood]

possibly, but if DDR4 is too expencive / not in the needed production numbers, then I suspect the inital cpus that support it will be able to support both ddr3 and ddr4 (not at the same time, just one or the other). So some cpus will be of one type and the others the next. Just like AMD did for the ddr2/ddr3 change over (new socket by a pin, but the their was the same cpu on both sockets).

time will tell either way.

This isn't even conjecture. It is just some random hypothesis with absolutely no backing.

 

[blackened23]

Does my zif 478 socket have a future guys? Anyway, you can be rest assured that their extreme line of cpu's will likely not be on 1155, and will be on 2011 instead. We don't know how well SB-e for 1155 will overclock compared to the 2011.....so whether that matters to the enthusiast crowd remains to be seen.

 

[RussianSensation]

But I really wanted Quad without IGP. But I'm slowly giving up on this.

You know you can turn the GPU off in the BIOS right?

 

[pantsaregood]

Does my zif 478 socket have a future guys? Anyway, you can be rest assured that their extreme line of cpu's will likely not be on 1155, and will be on 2011 instead. We don't know how well SB-e for 1155 will overclock compared to the 2011.....so whether that matters to the enthusiast crowd remains to be seen.

SB-E won't be on LGA 1155 at any point. SB-E on LGA 2011, however, will overclock near-identically to SB on LGA 1155 because it is still composed of Sandy Bridge cores.

 

[RussianSensation]

Someone said IB was "designed" for LGA 2011. That is absolutely not true.

Ivy Bridge will have a presence on LGA 1155, 1356, and 2011, just as Sandy Bridge does. No more, no less. Only LGA 1155 will support IGPs.

There for sure won't be any IB CPUs on LGA1366 or S1156. Both of those sockets are dead.

 

[PreferLinux]

if you are going to claim we do not pay for graphics then I guess we do not pay for but 2 cores either since the E8500 is also at the same price point...

True, but what I meant is we don't pay extra just for the IGP.

Rifterut: thank you for the confirmation.

PreferLinux: that's not true I think. Sandy Bridge E is cheaper than 2600 K although it is better. Why do you think this is so? It's not only the fact that it will appear at competition with Bulldozer, but ALSO because they don't need to use silicon for the stinky IGP.

Come on, it's pure logic: no IGP, no transistors, cheaper to manufacture. Simple as that. Of course, I'm aware that for them it might be actually cheaper to just leave the IGP in there in some cases, but that's only because of factory concerns. Once they get a factory to build without IGP, it WILL BE CHEAPER to manufacture. Simple math.

grkM3: If they do Haswell on 2011 it would be great. After all, 2011 is a lot of pins . They can channel a lot of bits through there ;;- ). I doubt, however, that the MoBo will support it.

AdamK47: LOL ::- D.

podspi: I was not thinking at Ivy Bridge - E. But at Ivy Bridge *period*. We can't be sure there's even going to be an IB-E. So I was thinking Sandy Bridge - E, and, if there won't be any IB-E, then, the hell with it, I'll just buy an IB. With our without IGP, it would be better than Sandy anyway. Or am I to understand that LGA 2011 is a non-IGP socket, which I doubt.

Ben90: a very wise answer Ben ::- ). You are correct ::- D. That's something I have to confess that I did not consider.... I absolutely do NOT need a gazillion PCI lanes. I am a fan of single GPUs. We'll see how it shapes up, but you brought a good point. I might be losing more than I save buy buying an enthusiast platform which I don't need, compared to a very performant mainstream platform with, ok, an IGP I won't use.

pantsaregood: As I told grkM3, even if Haswell is LGA 2011, I doubt any MoBo will support it.

Mostly because of its much more limited overclocking. It isn't a K series CPU, unlike the 2600K, so it is actually to be compared to the 2600 which would be at a similar price. Which just proves my point: you aren't paying extra for the IGP.

There for sure won't be any IB CPUs on LGA1366 or S1156. Both of those sockets are dead.

We know that, but there will be on LGA1356, which is a slight variation on 1366.

 

[Axonn]

RussianSensation: yes, I know you can disable GPU from BIOS, or even the HT if you hate it. What I meant is paying extra for the silicon for that GPU which I won't use. But, as others pointed out, LGA 2011 doesn't make sense for quad core. And hence I definitely do NOT need (or want to pay for) 6 or 8 cores...

PreferLinux: The 4 core is not a K series? Bah! I just realized that right now! Just checked Wiki. Pffffff. Screw this. I'm back to 2600K, period.

greenhawk: you're probably right that the GPU doesn't cost anything in terms of silicon. This reminds me of the junk Intel are doing with the "upgrade cards". Somebody should sue them.