Does healthcare really need to be this expensive? Recent accident.

[Ns1]

Perhaps not, but I'd imagine her boss might (that's who she asked).

and I once again ask why a nurses' boss would know?

isn't all that stuff done by...a billing department?

 

[jhu]

The friend is a resident nurse at that hospital and *works* at the ER unit that I went to that night...

I would hardly call it an estimate.

Her words were "I thought it would be only $5-6K, but I asked my boss and he said it would be around $50K."

charge != reimbursement

The hospital can charge whatever it wants, but they already negotiated a reimbursement schedule before you even signed up with your insurance company. Get back to us when you have a bill in hand.

 

[pyonir]

Some threads on here are like mini-novels or movies. You trudge through the first few posts...blah blah blah. Then hit the moment you didn't see coming...BAM!

LMAO @ this thread.

 

[mshan]

"The hospital can charge whatever it wants, but they already negotiated a reimbursement schedule before you even signed up with your insurance company. Get back to us when you have a bill in hand."

My guess is that for $50k, you should have been brought in unconsicous, bleeding profusely, and rushed to operating room for exploratory laparotomy to find and stop source of bleeding.

If ER team just did quick triage, sent you for some x-rays, cat scan, and mri, and then watched your vital signs for several hours, hmm...

 

[jupiter57]

You aren't going to end up paying anything near 40% of $50,000. Your insurance will "negotiate" a price in the mid four figures and you will pay 40% of that.

Not necessarily.
Ex-wife is a Hypochondriac, had to go to the Dr. at least every 2 weeks.
Had more surgeries than both our entire families combined.
We always got a statement from our Insurance Co. stating the "Billed" procedure, and our co-payment, which was 20% of the "Billed" cost.
But... they always had a "pre-arranged" agreed payment to our insurance co. that was typically ~20-30% of the "Billed" cost!

Last major procedure(s) she had, she had a benign lump on a breast, decided to have that breast removed first, along with low-dose, prophylactic Chemotherapy. Shortly thereafter, she had the other breast removed.
Insurance Co. refused to pay for these procedures, as they were considered "elective".
Total bills from the Hospital alone were over $67,000.
After I found out that she had simply paid all these bills in full, I collected all the bills and paid a visit to the hospitals billing dept.
I showed them some of the older bills with the Ins. cos. "pre-arranged" costs and ask them why I was being billed full price.
After a lot of cool & level headed reasoning, I got them to agree to knocking off "some of the cost".
A few weeks later, I got a check from the hospital for $43,000!
So essentially, I ended up paying just $24,000 for what they billed me $67,000 for!

TL/DNR: Negotiate ALL your bills before blindly paying them! You may be quite surprised how little it could actually cost you.

 

[Baked]

It's good to be a doctor. They will continue to charge you whatever they please as long as you let them.

 

[Firebot]

Last major procedure(s) she had, she had a benign lump on a breast, decided to have that breast removed first, along with low-dose, prophylactic Chemotherapy. Shortly thereafter, she had the other breast removed.
Insurance Co. refused to pay for these procedures, as they were considered "elective".
Total bills from the Hospital alone were over $67,000.
After I found out that she had simply paid all these bills in full, I collected all the bills and paid a visit to the hospitals billing dept.
I showed them some of the older bills with the Ins. cos. "pre-arranged" costs and ask them why I was being billed full price.
After a lot of cool & level headed reasoning, I got them to agree to knocking off "some of the cost".
A few weeks later, I got a check from the hospital for $43,000!
So essentially, I ended up paying just $24,000 for what they billed me $67,000 for!

TL/DNR: Negotiate ALL your bills before blindly paying them! You may be quite surprised how little it could actually cost you.

(not directed at Jupiter)

24K down from a 67K bill, for someone WITH insurance for a simple breast removal surgery. Americans are fucked up in accepting this as the norm. As a Canadian I see tons of 'social healthcare is evil' and unsubstantiated 'insane wait times' horror posts in P&N, yet every month or so I see a thread like this in ATOT, with people actually getting hurt and getting dinged ridiculous amounts of money not covered fully by insurance. Private healthcare is great as long as you are employed with a good company, not get serious injuries, or not getting so called 'elective' or preemptive surgery.

Even if FBB were to somehow go from 40% of 50K, to 40% of 5K (which is quite unlikely), how is this even reasonable, for someone who actually has insurance too? Americans are fucked up thinking this should be normal. 6 hours of ER at 10K an hour, hurray for private healthcare?

 

[Daedalus685]

Not necessarily.
Ex-wife is a Hypochondriac, had to go to the Dr. at least every 2 weeks.
Had more surgeries than both our entire families combined.
We always got a statement from our Insurance Co. stating the "Billed" procedure, and our co-payment, which was 20% of the "Billed" cost.
But... they always had a "pre-arranged" agreed payment to our insurance co. that was typically ~20-30% of the "Billed" cost!

Last major procedure(s) she had, she had a benign lump on a breast, decided to have that breast removed first, along with low-dose, prophylactic Chemotherapy. Shortly thereafter, she had the other breast removed.
Insurance Co. refused to pay for these procedures, as they were considered "elective".
Total bills from the Hospital alone were over $67,000.
After I found out that she had simply paid all these bills in full, I collected all the bills and paid a visit to the hospitals billing dept.
I showed them some of the older bills with the Ins. cos. "pre-arranged" costs and ask them why I was being billed full price.
After a lot of cool & level headed reasoning, I got them to agree to knocking off "some of the cost".
A few weeks later, I got a check from the hospital for $43,000!
So essentially, I ended up paying just $24,000 for what they billed me $67,000 for!

TL/DNR: Negotiate ALL your bills before blindly paying them! You may be quite surprised how little it could actually cost you.

Where on earth would you find a medical professional that would remove an entire breast for a benign lump?? That is some fucked up shit. Does the US seriously allow a treatment like that without a clearly defined requirement from an oncologist? If that happened here there would be criminal charges on the doctors...

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Not necessarily.
Ex-wife is a Hypochondriac, had to go to the Dr. at least every 2 weeks.
Had more surgeries than both our entire families combined.
We always got a statement from our Insurance Co. stating the "Billed" procedure, and our co-payment, which was 20% of the "Billed" cost.
But... they always had a "pre-arranged" agreed payment to our insurance co. that was typically ~20-30% of the "Billed" cost!

Last major procedure(s) she had, she had a benign lump on a breast, decided to have that breast removed first, along with low-dose, prophylactic Chemotherapy. Shortly thereafter, she had the other breast removed.
Insurance Co. refused to pay for these procedures, as they were considered "elective".
Total bills from the Hospital alone were over $67,000.
After I found out that she had simply paid all these bills in full, I collected all the bills and paid a visit to the hospitals billing dept.
I showed them some of the older bills with the Ins. cos. "pre-arranged" costs and ask them why I was being billed full price.
After a lot of cool & level headed reasoning, I got them to agree to knocking off "some of the cost".
A few weeks later, I got a check from the hospital for $43,000!
So essentially, I ended up paying just $24,000 for what they billed me $67,000 for!

TL/DNR: Negotiate ALL your bills before blindly paying them! You may be quite surprised how little it could actually cost you.

The fact that you can negotiate and get $43K dropped from an initial bill makes me believe that something is seriously wrong with our healthcare system.

Imagine if the status quo for installing tires on your car was to have no idea how much they would charge for the service. Then have the mechanic bill you $1,000 afterwards (everyone needs tires to have an operable vehicle). But that if you have the mind to negotiate you can magically bring it down to just $150. Others who don't negotiate pay the full $1,000.

I only know of one other place that has huge starting prices but through negotiation can be brought down by so much, and that's at the counterfeit markets in China. They list fake luxury watches (for example) for $150 but you can routinely bargain them down to $10 or so.

(truncated)
"That'll be $150."
"No. How about $10?"
"Can we do $50?"
"Nope. $10."
"Deal."

 

[jhu]

Where on earth would you find a medical professional that would remove an entire breast for a benign lump?? That is some fucked up shit. Does the US seriously allow a treatment like that without a clearly defined requirement from an oncologist? If that happened here there would be criminal charges on the doctors...

The only real impediment is whether or not insurance will pay for what seems to be medically unnecessary procedure. If you pay out of pocket, almost anything goes.

What I'd like to know is what diagnosis did the ex-wife have that she thought she needed both breasts taken out?

 

[JS80]

(not directed at Jupiter)

24K down from a 67K bill, for someone WITH insurance for a simple breast removal surgery. Americans are fucked up in accepting this as the norm. As a Canadian I see tons of 'social healthcare is evil' and unsubstantiated 'insane wait times' horror posts in P&N, yet every month or so I see a thread like this in ATOT, with people actually getting hurt and getting dinged ridiculous amounts of money not covered fully by insurance. Private healthcare is great as long as you are employed with a good company, not get serious injuries, or not getting so called 'elective' or preemptive surgery.

Even if FBB were to somehow go from 40% of 50K, to 40% of 5K (which is quite unlikely), how is this even reasonable, for someone who actually has insurance too? Americans are fucked up thinking this should be normal. 6 hours of ER at 10K an hour, hurray for private healthcare?

You think in Canada they would allow the elective surgery? Laugh.

 

[MiniDoom]

when i had some back issues, my wife drove me to the hospital because i couldn't walk. they came out, put me in a wheelchair. took me to a room where they gave me a shot of some pain narcotic in my ass, a prescription for steroids and sent me on my way. less than an hour. over 1000$. wtf? you could get a bag of H down the street which would have had better results for 10$. luckily after insurance i owed only 100$ but shit man. i think they charge so much because they can. the insurance company's picking up most of the tab, why should you care. they're the ones who have to pay it. they will just jack up your rates next year. what a fucked up system. my personal health care policy is now to not get fucked up as best as i can. i have to be dying before you get me to the hospital again.

 

[Sinsear]

Probably would have gotten a discount if you were wearing crocs.

 

[Daedalus685]

You think in Canada they would allow the elective surgery? Laugh.

No, we wouldn't... If I requested the removal of one of my organs with no recommendation from an accredited professional I would be directed to mental health resources almost immediately for what would clearly be a debilitating condition (anxiety/psychotic disorder of some kind). That might be one reason we spend so much less money on average. Prevention is less expensive than treatment.

Edit: Honestly, I'm shocked this is allowed in the USA. I had no idea.

 

[Blieb]

If you're riding a motorcycle you should have good insurance.

 

[Blieb]

So you just made this thread up based on a road-side estimate after an accident by a friend who just saw you fly off your bike? You fvcking serious????????

+1

 

[SamurAchzar]

Insurance companies only benefit from the inflated pricing. It scares people into doing insurances, while the actual negotiated cost is significantly less than these quotes.

Now, as for "free" and "social" healthcare: I may not be a professor of economics but I do understand nothing is free. Someone is paying. Either you pay out of pocket or you pay it through taxes. I'd rather pay 30% in taxes and get to pick my hospital, doctor and get immediate treatment than pay 50% in taxes and be bound to a dysfunctional public system - especially with many employers providing insurance in their benefits.

Of course that is a generalization, it's going to be really difficult to do a straight comparison between healthcare costs, I'm just saying it's more complicated than the headline figures on the hospital quotes.

 

[Firebot]

You think in Canada they would allow the elective surgery? Laugh.

Um, yes? Purely cosmetic surgery costs money, but breast removal or elective surgery if recommended as an option by a healthcare professional is fully paid for under public healthcare.

http://www.cancer.ca/Canada-wide/About%20cancer/Types of cancer/Mastectomy.aspx?sc_lang=en

Modified radical mastectomy

A modified radical mastectomy removes the entire breast, the nipple, some skin and some of the lymph nodes in the armpit. The muscle under the breast is left in place.

A mastectomy may be followed by reconstructive surgery at the same time as the breast is removed or some time later.

Radical mastectomy is seldom done anymore. A radical mastectomy removes the entire breast, the nipple, skin, some of the lymph nodes in the armpit, and the muscle under the breast.

Your healthcare team may recommend that your entire breast be removed if:

* The area of the breast affected by cancer is large compared to the size of your breast.
* The cancer is in more than one area of your breast.
* You’ve had breast-conserving surgery and the margin of healthy looking tissue around the tumour is not considered clear of cancer.
* It is what you prefer.

Even if it was for purely cosmetic reasons, a masectomy costs around 2200$ in a private clinic in Canada (which can then be reimbursed by the province under certain circumstances).

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/775660.html

A far cry from the joke that is America's healthcare system.

 

[Firebot]

Now, as for "free" and "social" healthcare: I may not be a professor of economics but I do understand nothing is free. Someone is paying. Either you pay out of pocket or you pay it through taxes. I'd rather pay 30% in taxes and get to pick my hospital, doctor and get immediate treatment than pay 50% in taxes and be bound to a dysfunctional public system - especially with many employers providing insurance in their benefits.

The US pays more per capita towards healthcare (i.e Medicare), then Canada does for public healthcare. America's system is broken, and you are paying more in taxes then Canadians healthcare wise. Also, nothing in Canada says you must go to a specific hospital or doctor, and you also have the option of private clinics. Canadians are free to choose what hospital or what family doctor they see, as I've done many times.

 

[Daedalus685]

Um, yes? Purely cosmetic surgery costs money, but breast removal or elective surgery if recommended as an option by a healthcare professional is fully paid for under public healthcare.

http://www.cancer.ca/Canada-wide/About%20cancer/Types of cancer/Mastectomy.aspx?sc_lang=en



Even if it was for purely cosmetic reasons, a masectomy costs around 2200$ in a private clinic in Canada (which can then be reimbursed by the province under certain circumstances).

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/775660.html

A far cry from the joke that is America's healthcare system.

Well yeah, but the point is that if it were recommended by a healthcare professional it isn't really elective in the same sense they were using. I can't just elect to have my organs removed. Though plastic surgery is a very strange grey area legally here. I was under the impression that they would not be allowed to perform a mastectomy until after several moths of "living" as the desired sex. But I guess, what is the difference in breast reduction and total removal beyond arbitrary scale.

 

[Rage187]

That's nothing; my yearly ct scans run $4k and take all of 2 mins to do.

 

[The-Noid]

The US pays more per capita towards healthcare (i.e Medicare), then Canada does for public healthcare. America's system is broken, and you are paying more in taxes then Canadians healthcare wise. Also, nothing in Canada says you must go to a specific hospital or doctor, and you also have the option of private clinics. Canadians are free to choose what hospital or what family doctor they see, as I've done many times.

We pay for the rest of the world, it is great...

The USA has no negotiated pricing on a grand scale it is left the insurance companies so we get rooked. Same reason Avastin is roughly $10,000 per dose in the USA. CAD4000 in Canada and GBP 1300 in Britain.

In a sense the USA subsidizes the world's health care system already because for example Avastin would have never been invented from a breakeven standpoint would they not have been able to charge $10,000 in the USA.

 

[The-Noid]

I've double posted, first time ever!

 

[Craig234]

Isn't the idiot who cut you off responsible for damage to you and your bike? What does the police report say about who's at fault?

Yes, medical costs are a joke. Way too many administrative/insurance/legal pigs at that trough, contributing *nothing* to your care.

The legal part gives people very legitimate protection when wrongs against powerful medical providers.

Studies have suggested that even if changes were passed gutting that protection it's not more than 2% of medical costs.

So don't be an insurance industry soldier fighting their battles with false talking points.

 

[preCRT]

So you just made this thread up based on a road-side estimate after an accident by a friend who just saw you fly off your bike? You fvcking serious????????

If you're riding a motorcycle you should have good insurance.

What they said. If you are stupid enough to ride a donor cycle, carry good health insurance. And stop your whining about costs until you have a real bill in your hands.


Actually, stop your damn whining all together. You are lucky to be alive.


Oh yeah, sign your damn donor card. Next time you may not be so lucky & it would be a shame to let your organs go to waste when others could be helped.