Does Haswell "still" run hotter than IvyBridge - all other things being equal?

[TheDarkKnight]

I own a SandyBridge and an IvyBridge computer system, built them myself. Both are dual-core CPUs. I wanna buy my first quad-core based system for my next build and I am trying to decide whether I should get the "latest and greatest" from Intel's Haswell lineup. Or if I should keep doing the smart thing I have always done and lag behind the technology a bit while there are bugs and kinks being worked out.

When Haswell first hit the market I heard a lot of complaints about it running much hotter when compared to SandyBridge and IvyBridge CPUs. And that concerns me in terms of the overall life expectancy of the Haswell line of CPUs.

So my question is, has this issue been mitigated any at all. Or is this still an issue with the current line of Haswell CPUs?

 

[ShintaiDK]

My 4670 is cooler than my 3570K. Both stock and stock cooler.

If run at stock, its under warranty and the temperature is fully tested. You can run a stock Intel CPU at tjmax guaranteed for 3 year.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

My 4670 is cooler than my 3570K. Both stock and stock cooler.

If run at stock, its under warranty and the temperature is fully tested. You can run a stock Intel CPU at tjmax guaranteed for 3 year.

One assumption I have detected buried in your response is that I would be happy if I bought a Haswell and it survived through it's warranty period. LOL.
That would be an incorrect assumption.

It's kind of like what Seagate and Western Digital have done with their warranties. Reducing them from 3 years to 2 years on their mainstream parts. Even though they only have 2 year warranties I would be pissed if they didn't last at least 3 years and would voice that opinion on the internet very vocally.

I don't want a CPU that lives past it's warranty. I want the CPU that lives the longest. That's called getting the best bang for the buck.

 

[videogames101]

At stock you won't have to worry, period. The CPU will likely be totally obsolete before it degrades.

Overclocking, neither ivy or haswell can truly deal with the heat transfer from the die to the IHS without some mods.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

At stock you won't have to worry, period. The CPU will likely be totally obsolete before it degrades.

Overclocking, neither ivy or haswell can truly deal with the heat transfer from the die to the IHS without some mods.

Overclocking has always been Taboo for me. I think it's a challenge for some people and I can understand that. But I don't like voiding my warranties or taking chances with $200.00 CPU parts.

That's what I pay Intel for. To test these chips and put them in the correct box.

I do agree with you that 3 years is a fair deal for the life expectancy of a CPU but the better the reputation the more value in resell as well.

I bought a couple of GeForce 9800GT videocards for peanuts on the dollars. Old technology these days still has value. Depends on the person though I guess.

 

[ChronoReverse]

If you're talking stock, Haswell runs cooler.

The heat issues is when people overclock and overvolt.


Actually, I'm overclocking a little (4.3GHz) and it's still running cooler than my undervolted C2Q Q9450 did.

 

[JDG1980]

I'd be more concerned about the USB 3.0 bugs on first-generation Haswell chipsets than about the CPU itself - at least if you have a decent cooler and aren't doing major overclocking. (Do the boards currently on the shelves still have this bug?)

Regarding CPU lifespans, I would be very disappointed if a chip didn't last 7 to 10 years, regardless of what the warranty period is. This isn't the early 2000s any more, and progress has slowed to the point where older systems can still do useful work/play for someone, even if you no longer use them for cutting-edge gaming or other heavy stuff.

 

[Torn Mind]

I'd be more concerned about the USB 3.0 bugs on first-generation Haswell chipsets than about the CPU itself - at least if you have a decent cooler and aren't doing major overclocking. (Do the boards currently on the shelves still have this bug?)

Regarding CPU lifespans, I would be very disappointed if a chip didn't last 7 to 10 years, regardless of what the warranty period is. This isn't the early 2000s any more, and progress has slowed to the point where older systems can still do useful work/play for someone, even if you no longer use them for cutting-edge gaming or other heavy stuff.

Chips run at stock and with in spec power(surges, electrostatic discharge are within spec) should last decades. The Pentium 4s that are on Ebay right now should be practically be safe buys if coming from typical legacy systems that didn't see a lick of overclocking. CPUs don't get tossed aside because they break, it's because new CPUs are better.

 

[glugglug]

My 4770S runs about 20-23C most of the time (I like the room cool). If I peg all 8 logical cores it might get to 65C, but usually not. Coolermaster Hyper212.

I didn't want to overclock it, but with the default BIOS settings and after just selecting XMP for the RAM and installing Win8 and the stupid AiSuite on defaults, it ran at 4.5Ghz when using the CPU. Ran a couple hours of AIDA64 with it like that, but With AiSuite win8 was bluescreening once every day or 2, and I wanted maximum stability for the whole-home DVR, so I set it to only turbo to 3.9Ghz and am using Win7.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Overclocking, neither ivy or haswell can truly deal with the heat transfer from the die to the IHS without some mods.

Only when talking about AVX power viruses.

And not for all chips, mine can handle Intel Optimized Linpacks up to 4.6GHz on my Dark Knight II.

Non AVX Prime95 is a walk in the park.

2x Corsair SP120s in P/P ~ 750 RPM.

When I game at 4.8GHz they'll peak around 1200 RPM, but spend most of their time around ~800 RPM.

No modifications done.

 

[aigomorla]

Overclocking has always been Taboo for me. I think it's a challenge for some people and I can understand that. But I don't like voiding my warranties or taking chances with $200.00 CPU parts.

That's what I pay Intel for. To test these chips and put them in the correct box.

you can pay them to cover your overclocking as well incase u didnt know. :whiste:

http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/

What is the Performance Tuning Protection Plan? ?
The Performance Tuning Protection Plan is an additional plan that a customer can purchase to cover processor failures caused by operating the eligible processor outside of Intel’s published specifications.

 

[erunion]

I do agree with you that 3 years is a fair deal for the life expectancy of a CPU but the better the reputation the more value in resell as well.

.

3 years is not the life expectancy. It will last much longer than that.

IVB and haswell have the same temperature characteristics. I'd get haswell if I were you.

 

[tweakboy]

Si senior

 

[Ed1]

Only when talking about AVX power viruses.

And not for all chips, mine can handle Intel Optimized Linpacks up to 4.6GHz on my Dark Knight II.

Non AVX Prime95 is a walk in the park.

2x Corsair SP120s in P/P ~ 750 RPM.

When I game at 4.8GHz they'll peak around 1200 RPM, but spend most of their time around ~800 RPM.

No modifications done.

That vcore under load is with auto setting in bios or you have it set low manually or offset ?

 

[ShintaiDK]

One assumption I have detected buried in your response is that I would be happy if I bought a Haswell and it survived through it's warranty period. LOL.
That would be an incorrect assumption.

It's kind of like what Seagate and Western Digital have done with their warranties. Reducing them from 3 years to 2 years on their mainstream parts. Even though they only have 2 year warranties I would be pissed if they didn't last at least 3 years and would voice that opinion on the internet very vocally.

I don't want a CPU that lives past it's warranty. I want the CPU that lives the longest. That's called getting the best bang for the buck.

CPUs cant be compared to HDs.

And it was just an example that you can run it under extreme stock conditions for 3 years, and Intel expect close to 0%, if not 0% failure rate. I would be surprised if you couldnt run them for 10 years+ at extreme stock conditions without any signs of problems.

The only CPUs I see having problems/die is due to overclocking or otherwise user mishandling.

 

[tential]

If you're worried about your CPU dying while running under stock conditions then please, stop worrying lol.

It won't die man. I think I've only had ONE cpu/mobo fail when running under stock conditions out of all of the PCs I've owned. By then, it was so outdated though that a repair was pointless, and 250 dollars got me a MUCH faster mobo/cpu combo rather than simply purchasing a new PC or repairing.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

That vcore under load is with auto setting in bios or you have it set low manually or offset ?

Offset, board adds voltage to default vid as part of some built in LLC functionality. Open Hardware is actually reading the vid correctly as it reads in bios, however in windows there is some sort of LLC offset taking place which jacks up the voltage at these low clocks, it isn't a problem at 1.245v which is what I use for 4.8GHz.

OP I wouldn't worry about heat, you either plan to use AVX/2/FMA3 code in which case the performance will warrant the heat output, or you won't in which case heat won't be a problem.

 

[Ed1]

Offset, board adds voltage to default vid as part of some built in LLC functionality. Open Hardware is actually reading the vid correctly as it reads in bios, however in windows there is some sort of LLC offset taking place which jacks up the voltage at these low clocks, it isn't a problem at 1.245v which is what I use for 4.8GHz.

OP I wouldn't worry about heat, you either plan to use AVX/2/FMA3 code in which case the performance will warrant the heat output, or you won't in which case heat won't be a problem.

Ok, Just seemed real low and was wondering . I use OpenHardware too but here 3570k with P8Z77v Pro it matches CPU-Z pretty much . my idle vcore is like 0.950 and load around 1.120 on auto and around 4.0-4.2ghz .
I like to keep it cool so not push it much , get low 60's c in prime95 with 212evo HS .

 

[OBLAMA2009]

some of my computers have been on 24/7 for more than six years, i suspect intel cpus and fans pretty much last forever...

 

[bgt]

My 4770K is cooler than my 3770K anyway(@stock).

PSU Seasonic Platinium 650

IGP only.

idle 31W
P95 74W
Furmark 103W
P95+Furmark 121W

With 7950@stock

50W
154W
252W
338W

 

[aigomorla]

some of my computers have been on 24/7 for more than six years, i suspect intel cpus and fans pretty much last forever...

i can make everyone who said this eat there words...

as i have killed 3 perfectly good overclocking chips in a span of less then 1 weeks from tuning on a new stepping..
I think thats my record in the most chips killed in 1 week.



chips do die... however its more related to greed on the user with his knowledge of how to keep the chip in check.

if greed is low on your side, then yes the chips can probably last longer then expected.
If greed is high, well, you just inserted a ticking bomb on a short fuse to exploding.

 

[ShintaiDK]

aigomorla, remember stock and not OC.

 

[Zap]

CPUs don't get tossed aside because they break, it's because new CPUs are better.

I thought it was because the motherboards eventually die. :whiste:

 

[Haserath]

undervolt at stock clocks and it will run cool even with the stock cooler.