Does Faith in the Divine = Stupidity?

[BurnItDwn]

I am an atheist and I do not believe faith in the divine is always stupid.
I used to believe that faith = stupidity, but I've wizened up in the last year and finally learned to question my own (dis)beliefs.

I still don't think there is any objective evidence to support the existence of a god, however, the entire basis of religions isn't about evidence or proof, but rather faith.

So, I've pretty much learned that just because I don't understand something, that doesn't mean it's stupid. Dawkins I am not.

 

[Throckmorton]

If HeroOfPellinor is any indication, yes.

 

[jjones]

Magic 8-ball says yes.

 

[skace]

Faith has it's power and purpose, but I'd rather have none of it.

If I was in charge of a group of people, I think I would ultimately be for religion. Because it is easier to control the mob through it than it is to hope that the lone man will do what is best for society on his own.

 

[Zysoclaplem]

I think far too many people mistake hope for faith. There is just far too much doubt when it comes to the subject. And if you do not "doubt," then you "know." And at that point it's no longer hope or faith, it's something else entirely. And what that is is up to you. But to me it's a rejection of reality. We were born with eyes to see, a nose to smell, ears to hear, fingers to touch. But we were also born with a mind that makes our lives so much richer than just seeing, smelling, hearing and touching. We were born with perception, and not just perception, a perception that changes with life experiences. People who have hope in the divine are not stupid. They are just making a choice.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Sometimes it's stupidity. Many people believe in the unseen because they were raised or bullied into it and don't question it.

But other people, like me, who have college educations and are naturally very cynical, it actually takes a lot of courage and strength to have faith. Especially when you know every every insecure budding pseudo-intellectual twirp is going to assert intellectual superiority over you because of it.

So the answer is, sometimes. And you should have known this.

"believe in jeebus or i'll beat you up!" ????

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: ja1484


Atheists (The E comes before the I) can be anti-religious, but being Atheist does not mean you automatically are. I know plenty of Atheists who couldn't care less what other people believe, as long as they aren't constantly hassled because of the *belief* they hold.

Agree as im one of them

 

[Demon-Xanth]

I don't think having a religion makes someone stupid, but blind faith pretty much is.

The single biggest problem with religion is the cult mentality that pops up way too often. Even in the major religions. People don't think about what they're doing, but doing what they're told to be a good <insert religion> and go to heaven (or wherever else). Religious texts can be used to back up virtually any asinine viewpoint, and if they don't you can write your own and make one that does.

The key to life is to try to contribute to society the best way you can. If you need to believe in a god, well, as long as you don't go taking a dump in the salad bar at Wendy's because he told you to, go for it.

Something interesting to note:
Not many people make offerings to Zeus, Mars, and Ra any more. Before $religion was established, did everyone go to hell?

 

[thraashman]

I'm often of the belief that posting on ATOT = stupidity.

Except then I remember that everyone on ATOT is a self-made millionaire who gets 15 different women a month who are all 10's and has a 11 inch penis. Also since all the ATOT people can write out the plot for and make better any movie or video game that has ever existed. So how could anyone on ATOT be stupid.....



oh and oh yeah rickroll rick roll RICKROLL ..... I swear this might be a rickroll!

Can we STOP beating a dead horse now?

 

[manowar821]

Blind faith is an excellent sign of stupidity.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: manowar821
Blind faith is an excellent sign of stupidity.

i agree with that, blind faith in ANYTHING is pretty stupid

beleif in the divine is not stupid, its fine, some people beleive some dont

 

[Tobolo]

Faith in the Divine is a good thing. I know people that are devout Christians that approach the world with a biblical standpoint. They do not feel that people should be gay/have abortions/etc. but they also know they were instructed to "judge not lest you be judged yourself" and therefore they do not interfere or put down people that do believe in those things. People that are close minded are idiots and need to pay more attention to their religions. The faith in of itself is not a bad thing, just how you portray that faith in your daily life.

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark

Originally posted by: Blain

Originally posted by: FoBoT
athiests don't believe in faith

faith = firm belief in something for which there is no proof

and athiests only believe in things that are provable/proven

Where would an athiest have believed sickness came from, back before germs & bacteria were discovered to be a major cause?

What kind of retarded question is that? The onus isn't on the Atheist to explain his non-belief. You don't demand that people explain their non-belief in fuckin' mole people do you?

What the hell is wrong with just saying "I don't know"? And not just "I don't know", but why SHOULD I know? Why is it my job to know? Knowing without reason is religion's job. Why do I have to have a theory about every-fuckin'-thing in the universe just to doubt your theory of every-fuckin'-thing in the universe?

I don't know any more about the great "why's" of life than you do. No one does. Not the guy in the lab coat and not the guy with the pointy-hat. But, the guy in the labcoat knows some of the "how".

Have you considered decaf?

 

[polarmystery]

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
To have faith is to believe without proof.

I do not have faith in man, thus do not believe ANY religion as it is all based on the word of a man/men. Jesus could of been a cult leader in the right place at the right time for all we know. You can quote all the locations in the bible that are factual, but it only means it was someone from that age that wrote it, doesn't make him right. And saying it's true really loudly or for a long time (like centuries) doesn't count.

I have no issue someone having faith in whatever until it impairs their ability to make rational decisions, which happens way to often. Those with a a strong faith that twists their view of reality until they can no longer reason (ex- to hate someone because they do not believe what you believe, the attempt to suppress anything that contradicts you ranging from wanting to ban books to genocide) are a cancer on humanity.


As for god, well i look to science on this one. If you look at all the things that HAVE to go right in the human body, that can never fail for the entire length of our lives, the complexness of just one cell let alone the whole body... it's a miracle that we are alive. Then there is how we where created, which we have no clue how that happened.
So i believe in a god.

This...

 

[BudAshes]

I guess what i essentially think is that what we believe doesn't matter, only what we do.

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
As for god, well i look to science on this one. If you look at all the things that HAVE to go right in the human body, that can never fail for the entire length of our lives, the complexness of just one cell let alone the whole body... it's a miracle that we are alive. Then there is how we where created, which we have no clue how that happened.
So i believe in a god.

Her heart failed...

I guess God sure let her and her family down. Then again, He works in mysterious ways, no?

The point, however, is that the parts DO fail, and when they do, we DO die.

When did God say his purpose was to keep people from dying? Whether or not God is real, belief in him does not cure all suffering and death.

Life after death is a huge part of almost every religion. Religion promises deliverance from the most basic human fear. Religion says you will not die.

I'm not agreeing with Kadarin, I'm just replying to your reply.

I meant in "this" life. As far as I know, the only person in religion that hasn't died would be either Elijah or Elisha (don't remember which). Then again, I only know of Christianity.

 

[sandorski]

Faith in "God' or "gods" is alright, but if that Faith requires one to deny Truth, then it becomes Stupidity.

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Faith in "God' or "gods" is alright, but if that Faith requires one to deny Truth, then it becomes Stupidity.

That's why I think it's stupid to take holy books as literal truth.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: hans030390

Originally posted by: FoBoT
athiests don't believe in faith

faith = firm belief in something for which there is no proof

and athiests only believe in things that are provable/proven

That's a silly statement. Can you scientifically prove there is no God? No. Can you scientifically prove there IS a God? No. Therefore, the athiest too has faith.

Can you prove that there is no Santa Claus? If not, does that mean that you have to have faith to not believe him him?

 

[NanoStuff]

Short answer, yes.
Long answer, yes, yes it does.

 

[timosyy]

Originally posted by: StormRider
That's why I think it's stupid to take holy books as literal truth.

Just some interesting trivia, I find its actually quite surprising how scientifically correct the Bible actually was, way before science actually caught up. Just some examples-

The fact that the sun is on a circuit through space (Psalm 19:6), which was at odds with scientific and even religious thinking until relatively modern day.

The fact that the earth is a sphere, not flat (Isaiah 40:22), which was written ~740-680 BC, roughly 300 years before Aristotle suggested that the earth might be round, and WAY before Christopher Columbus (~1500 AD), during which time people still thought the world might be flat.

The fact that the earth rests on "nothing" (Job 26:7), contrary to the Hindu's who believed it rested on the back of an elephant or the Greeks who believed Atlas held it up.

etc.

Not really trying to make any point here, and you certainly can't use these points as the sole basis for the divinity of the Bible or anything like that, just thought it was intellectually interesting trivia. People are going to debate the stories found in Genesis until the end of time, but the Bible does hold some useful truths. IIRC, its also been a big help to archaeologists as far as locations and things go, but I can't really comment on that because thats way out of my field.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: ironwing
Who the hell gave this more than no stars?

I just rated this thread 5 stars.... for no real reason.

 

[Oceandevi]

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Faith in the above? You mean like space?

no, like in your attic
do you have faith that you have an attic in your house

I have insulating beings in my attic.

 

[Estrella]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: FoBoT
athiests don't believe in faith

faith = firm belief in something for which there is no proof

and athiests only believe in things that are provable/proven

And the great irony of that, of course, is that this belief (that one's worldview rests solely on things which can and have been proved) is twice as ridiculous as any belief in the divine, the flying spaghetti monster, or invisible pink unicorns. At least those beliefs can't be proven or disproven; the belief that atheists are grounded firmly in irrefutable logic can be disproven fairly quickly using the selfsame logic.

There is no "proof" that we're not in a Matrix-style world completely different from what our senses are able to perceive. Even if you assume logic to be a core truth (and that is an assumption), you can't reason your way out of a paper bag without a few premises...which can't be deduced directly. All logic and science rests on "first principles"...which are only true in that they haven't disagreed with our observations yet. So basically you have to have faith that cause follows effect, that the physical laws of the universe aren't changing, it's just our understanding of them that develops, that your physical senses and mental pathways are reliable and consistent, and a number of other very fundamental, core beliefs.

The difference, I suppose, is that atheists tend to have fewer core beliefs than non-atheists. But Occam's razor isn't meant to be a solid proof, just a simple way to cut through the BS in the face of competing theories that both completely explain the situation in front of you.

Indeed, it's scary the level to which people are completely and utterly devoted to atheism and science. Just as much religious fervor attaches itself to these things as to the old-time religions. And just as any good priest back in the day would urge their followers to consider their actions carefully, and not to assume that their way was 100% correct and that their understanding of faith was perfect (even though this was a faith which the priest shared), any good scientist today should urge their followers not to fall into a worshipful state and consider science as the only and perfect truth. This blind devotion serves no one, and is in fact quite frightening.

The weird thing is that you are attempting to use reason as a possible means to disprove reason. A contradiction, I sense, young Padewan.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Estrella

The weird thing is that you are attempting to use reason as a possible means to disprove reason. A contradiction, I sense, young Padewan.

I'm using reason to show that reason doesn't extend infinitely, and that whatever exists beyond can be neither proven nor disproven using pure logic. I am further point out that reason can only exist on a core of non-reason.