Does Commercialism Affect our Morality?

mAdD INDIAN

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
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Do you think commercialism affects our morality? By that, I mean does material wealth affect who we are and our actions? Do you think money is degrading our social values?

I have to write a essay on this and I HAVE to argue that commercialism does not affect our morality. I'm having a hard time finding arguements to support that arguement.

I thought about writing about Bill Gates giving a lot of money to Charity but then I would also have to factor in the strong-arm tactics of him with M$. Also I want to talk about Ted Turner donating 1 Billion Dollars to the UN. But I do not have any more information regarding that. I was hoping that you guys/gals could help me out with it and even point to some sites that have information regarding Ted Turner's donation.

Thanks
 

Imaginer

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
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I think that commercialism has an affect on morality in that an example is a small down to earth shop. They once crafted wonderful products. Since the shop gained reputation, and with enough money, they decided to branch out in hopes of a higher income.

Within a few years, this tiny store now has several stores selling products. With the need for more products and a faster means of production, they dediced to give plans to a manufacture to make the same crafted products on an assembly line.

While the products came out, each perfect in everyway, They are sold every where the stores opened up.

With that example, maybe sometimes the heart goes out of products once done by hand.

Another view on commercialism is the fact that sometimes people go out of their ways to get the aspects of money.
 

Imaginer

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Oct 15, 1999
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<< I mean does material wealth affect who we are and our actions? >>


It depends on the person and whether or not they are easily swayed by the things in life. Some people who get bloated egos easily would fall in the catagory where they become snobs from the humble people they once were if they win the lottery. But I think with a strong moral, no matter how much material wealth you have, you are always willing to stick to your own morals. Bad or good. But it depends. Wealth sometimes changes morals.

But it does change how a person views life and society. Take a person who has saved enough money to life the good life. The house is inside a private club of neighborhoods and they golf, horseback, boating, and parties. Since the person has wealth but from a different background, the person experiences a different view point...
 

mAdD INDIAN

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Oct 11, 1999
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Thanks for your input Imaginer.

But I need evidence that will support my arguement that consumerism does NOT affect our morality. If I had to write an essay on how it did affect our morality, then it would be easy and I could find many examples.

But I need some concrete facts that support that consumerism doesn't affect our morality. I think celebrities who donate money to charities could work, but I would need specific examples.

 

Yeeny

Lifer
Feb 2, 2000
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Look at Mother Theresa Mad Indian. She was born to a rich family, and walked away from it to live poor and care for the sick and dying. She had thousands of dollars offered to her by politicians and celebrities to have a dinner with her as the guest of honor. But she took the money and donated it while canceling the dinner. Her attitude was that she was not going to let people pay to eat fancy food with her while thousands starved to death in the streets. I would research her life, and use that. She is the greatest proof of how money will not change a good person, no matter what. Bill Gates and Ted Turner may have donated money, but they still where changed by their wealth.
 

mAdD INDIAN

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
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Thanks a lot GirlFriday. I did not know that Mother Teresa was born to a rich family. I will put some research into this. I think I have some concrete arguements now. Thanks a lot!!!

But I would still like some more input!!
 

mAdD INDIAN

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
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A thought just occured to me. Could I use Oprah Winfrey as an example also? She went from dirt-poor to extremely rich, and she helps handicapped children, she has the Wish Foundation. Basically she helps a lot in the community right? She gives a lot of money away to donations too?
 

~zonker~

Golden Member
Jan 23, 2000
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Well said GirlFriday

.....&quot;no matter what. Bill Gates and Ted Turner may have donated money, but they still where changed by their wealth.&quot;

Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' (MT 7:22~23)
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
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Maybe i'm wrong, but isn't GirlFriday's argument the opposite of what she's trying to make? Mother Therasa knew that money could corrupt, that's why she left it? If she knew that it wouldn't, why wouldn't she had kept the money and used it philanthropically.

Oprah Winfrey is a good example, but she is definitely the exception. If your prof/teacher is asking for a macro view of things, then you'll need something more.

However, here's my argument: Individually, it does affect our morality. We become more self-centered and egotistical as we acquire more material wealth... we acquire the Armani suit to define who we are (i am affluent), but that Armani suit is not enough, so we need the porche. The porche becomes dated in a couple of years, so then we need the next best thing, which might be the new Lexus, etc, etc. It snowballs and we simply become more materialistic. We soon equate happiness with material possessions. We remembered how it felt when we got that first porche and drove it on the road, the looks and ooo's we got from other people. And we try to recapture that with future possessions, believing there is 'THE' item out there that will make us completely happy. There is no such thing of course, the guy from poverty looks ahead and believes that making $50k a yr and owning a house is heaven... but once he has that he looks forward again, believing that making $200k and having a house and 2 beemers is heaven. It doens't end there either.. once he has that he looks forward again and believes that making $500k and having a woman 20 yrs younger then him will make him happy, etc, etc, etc.

The suicide rates amongst the uppermiddle class to rich is HIGHER then the suicide rates amongst the lowermiddleclass to poor. The psychological disorders such as depression and personality disorder is also much higher amongst the upperclass then lowerclass.

Now, that's my argument for individuals. As a society, it appears commercialism is making us MORE moral. Let me see if i can argue it.

If you look at society past, you'll notice that it was worst off. There was slavery in the past, women didn't get to vote, laws/justice were more bias or lenient (rape, child abuse, etc), and even behaviors such as smoking was considered acceptable (today it's not illegal, but definitely frown upon). Then, as our economy got better, so did our sense of justice and morality. Slavery was abolished (not just abolished, but an entire civil war was fought over it), women got to vote, prejudicism becomes a no-no, etc, etc. Why is that? I would say that as we become more materially successful, we want to maintain that success (and happiness). We have a good economy, and we want that economy to continue being good... but we also want to spread the good. It's just like a happy drunk in a bar, he's more likely to buy everybody a round of drinks then the drunk in the bar that's pissed. This also makes his time more enjoyable, and we do the same thing as a society. We like our standard of living, and we know if we make another society standard of living better, that our's would be enhanced as well (ie, if Mexico's society becomes better, so will ours).

I think as human beings, when we're not happy, we become very selfish (as a whole i mean... there are LOTS of exceptions). But when we are happy, we tend to also become very good and benevolent. Here's an example: At the end of the 80s, after Reagan dumped all those trillions into the economy trying to build Star Wars and what not, and with all the conglomerate corporate mergers, and the economy jsut being damn fine, the world rushed into the middle east to save Kuwait. Then, in the early 90s, when the depression set it, Bosnia had their own war, with a pretty damn good chance of disrupting the European society and starting a serious war, everybody was hesistant to get involved, including the Europeans!

So if we're happy, we're nice... currently, we believe that material goods make us happy, so if our economy is good and we have lots of money, then we're happy and nice. But like my argument on individuals shows, material goods doesn't really make us happy... we only believe it does. And even then, it's not permament happiness... look at all the rich, you'll think they were the happiest ppl in the world, running around naked and having huge orgies (i think it's only the German aristocrats that does that).

So MY thesis would be: Individually, material goods makes us selfish... but as a society, material goods have a macro effect of making us nicer. The proof is in history... and also the world over (especially in developing nations). Look at China. 20 yrs ago they were much worst then today... despite all the western media that says they're evil and the chinese are unhappy with the government, the chinese ppl are quite happy and quite content with the government... there could definitely be changes, but they realize the government will make changes, and they realize the change will come when the economy is better and the standard of living is higher.
There ya go... i doubt that helped you, probably made you more confused... and not like i have any substantial evidence.

Anyways, those are my ideas. Hope it hasn't confused you.
 

mAdD INDIAN

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
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Moralpanic:
Thanks for your reply. But I do have some questions. How would consumerism relate to things like women being able to vote, and end of racism? I understand about us wanting a $300K car after we bought our $120K car. But that's just our need to become better. Why stand where you are, when you can go further? That's advancement. If we didn't have that kind of mentality we wouldn't be where we are today.

By morality, I mean how we stop being snobby and do illegal things 'because we can'. Like what NVidia did to the Riva3D website. How our nature becomes worse as we earn money. How everyone wants something, but then once they get it, they realize that everyone else has it and it loses it's 'eliteness' factor. Ok..I dunno if what I said made any sense or portayed my thoughts. Well I hope you guys/gals will understand what I'm trying to convey.

There was an essay called Morals In The Rat Race by Arthur Schafer. Basically I have to write a essay that counters the arguement in that. How Consumerism doesn't no affect our morality.
 

Yeeny

Lifer
Feb 2, 2000
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Maybe i'm wrong, but isn't GirlFriday's argument the opposite of what she's trying to make? Mother Therasa knew that money could corrupt, that's why she left it?

MoralPanic: She never let money corrupt her, instead she learned it's strength in making others lives better. It's kind of like fire, it can heat your house when controlled, but throw some gasoline on it and you will have a fire out of control before you know it. She understood that concept, and used it wisely. I hope this makes sense, I know what I want to say, but am not sure if I am saying it correctly. ;)
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
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Girlfriday... i understand what you're saying now... i always assumed she took a vow of poverty, and didn't realize she had money to actually help with the poor.

And that's my point Madd Indian. Selfishness is moral corruption. You don't think it's wrong that somebody goes out and blows $100,000 on a car, when you'll be using that car to drive by people that are poor and starving on the streets? We think that we only need one more item or one more thing then we'll be happy and content... but it never happens, and we keep strifing.

&quot;because that's just our need to become better.&quot; but is upgrading a $30,000 car to a $80,000 car making us better? is it really making us happy? Is the guy with a $80,000 car really enjoying life better then the guy with $30,000? According to statistic, it's not... suicide rates, depression, personality disorders, etc, etc, are higher amongst the upperclass then lowerclass.

I've never heard of the book/article that you mentioned, so I'm not exactly sure what you're after. Morality is a very broad concept, and I don't know what level of an argument you're after... i'm assuming you're after a societal effect, which makes it some what easier to argue. I believe their main argument is that consumerism corrupts our morality. That the more materialistic we become the more selfish we become, the more fraud and crime there is in society to attain those material goods, etc. Well, if this was true, then, our society today being so economically prosperous, should be morally worst then the past. Our laws and justice system sure seem a bit fairer today then 50 years ago. Instead of keeping the blacks at the back of the bus, we have affirmative actions today. But it's really hard for me to argue this, because there are other factors that are involved in our civilizing of society... one of which is just that it's normal evolution that is making our society better; it's better for us to live in peace and harmony then war and conflict... reproduction and successful childrearing is definitely easier. And look at those societies that aren't so materially concerned, some of which are better then this society (ie, Swizterland)... morallywise.

And no, i can't really go into too much detail about how consumerism allowed suffrage or the end of slavery... i'm not too familiar with those histories to accurately date and speculate (did suffrage and the end of slavery coincide with economic prosperity?... could suffrage and the end of slavery been successful in a bad economic depression?)... i just gave out an idea that consumerism makes us happy, and because we're happy, we want to maintain that happiness, so we do what's morally right. It's a lot more complicated then that of course, and it's getting a bit late, so it's hard for me to brainstorm.

I'm also not clear what exactly your after. One of your posts you mentioned that you would like to use Oprah as an example that consumerism doesn't change somebody's morality. I think this would be a good way to go, and might be easier. Another way of going at it is to write out the main points the author of that article makes then argue against it (you could post them here too and if i have any ideas i'll throw them at you).

 

mAdD INDIAN

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
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Moralpanic: I understand what you are getting at. That Material wealth makes us selfish. But the thing is I have to write the opposite. I have to argue that Material wealth doesn't make us selfish.

Anyway I almost finished my essay. If you private message me with your email address I'll be more than happy to send it you.

Thanks