Does anyone think we'll see ARM replace x86 in desktops?

[Topweasel]

I'm not entirely sure if that will change much. It requires a persistent online connection while in use. And was it really tied to the store, or was that the only place to find existing software that worked for it?

Without an emulation mode you couldn't run old software. So basically the only way you could install anything was to install it from the software shop that would be curated with apps that were compatible for the OS/Hardware combination. They didn't want people to think they could install their personal photoshop version, so they prevented it from running any app not installed from the shop.

It was cool in a way. It was a nice shot at Intel. "Hey wey recompiled Windows 8.0 for ARM and look at how well it runs". But the benefit of Windows is it's unshackled and highly supported nature. Neither of them applied to Windows RT. This is what made the Surface 3 so great though. It's a "premium tablet" at $400-$600. That is a fully unlocked Windows that can run anything (even if it's kind of slow at most stuff). Making a consumption device a temporary or weak productivity device. Apple sees that as well which is why they made the Ipad pro, but I think they went the wrong way. It's an attempt to take an OS built around consumption and build tools for productivity around it. In the long run it might pay off, but it's going to be a weak counterpart to a system even running OSX let alone Windows.

MS's next move with emulation on ARM is a nice next step. But it won't help unless it can run all X86 code and not just 32bit. Whomever pulls that off wins. Then they can scale out their selection by requirements and not infrastructure as well. I have to think Apple is close, but they are probably waiting till they are absolutely sure moving the normal consumer products over to ARM is the best move. People need OSX on ARM not a Macbook running iOS.

The other solution is constant erosion of the PC. As more services get moved to cloud based computing services or side developed with mobile services. The general user even in a business setting will get closer and closer to not needing a PC. Makes me think of the days were we thought we were getting close to just docking our phones and doing work with a keyboard, mouse, and monitor connected to our cell phones. The closer we get to that the more ARM or atom/cat system becomes a strong driver to kill what we know of as computing (like the snarky girl in the Ipad pro commercial asking a what a computer is). Engineers, mid to high level productive environments, servers, and enthusiasts they would still use X86 for a long while, though we might see a increase in cost of managing these systems.

 

[whm1974]

Without an emulation mode you couldn't run old software. So basically the only way you could install anything was to install it from the software shop that would be curated with apps that were compatible for the OS/Hardware combination. They didn't want people to think they could install their personal photoshop version, so they prevented it from running any app not installed from the shop.

It was cool in a way. It was a nice shot at Intel. "Hey wey recompiled Windows 8.0 for ARM and look at how well it runs". But the benefit of Windows is it's unshackled and highly supported nature. Neither of them applied to Windows RT. This is what made the Surface 3 so great though. It's a "premium tablet" at $400-$600. That is a fully unlocked Windows that can run anything (even if it's kind of slow at most stuff). Making a consumption device a temporary or weak productivity device. Apple sees that as well which is why they made the Ipad pro, but I think they went the wrong way. It's an attempt to take an OS built around consumption and build tools for productivity around it. In the long run it might pay off, but it's going to be a weak counterpart to a system even running OSX let alone Windows.

MS's next move with emulation on ARM is a nice next step. But it won't help unless it can run all X86 code and not just 32bit. Whomever pulls that off wins. Then they can scale out their selection by requirements and not infrastructure as well. I have to think Apple is close, but they are probably waiting till they are absolutely sure moving the normal consumer products over to ARM is the best move. People need OSX on ARM not a Macbook running iOS.

The other solution is constant erosion of the PC. As more services get moved to cloud based computing services or side developed with mobile services. The general user even in a business setting will get closer and closer to not needing a PC. Makes me think of the days were we thought we were getting close to just docking our phones and doing work with a keyboard, mouse, and monitor connected to our cell phones. The closer we get to that the more ARM or atom/cat system becomes a strong driver to kill what we know of as computing (like the snarky girl in the Ipad pro commercial asking a what a computer is). Engineers, mid to high level productive environments, servers, and enthusiasts they would still use X86 for a long while, though we might see a increase in cost of managing these systems.

Nooo Please don't let that be the future.

 

[bystander36]

Nooo Please don't let that be the future.

I could see it, but it won't happen all that soon.

 

[Topweasel]

Nooo Please don't let that be the future.

I don't want that either. But it's something to keep in mind. Every time we get a parent a Ipad to check their mail because we don't want to support a full system the closer and closer we get to a point that the general day to day work of even an employee can be done from a "mobile device".

Whether it's ARM recently or X86 around 2010, we have hit a point where performance is more than adequate no matter what the product they are using is for simple tasks. Now they just need to be robust enough to run 3-4 of those tasks (keep web pages up, while running a mail client, while working on an office document). You pull that off and 80% of the workplace can get by with an ARM tablet. The next thing is support within infrastructure. Once you get past those two hurdles it will basically be a done deal where we are headed. Why give an employee a computer that they can easily infect, bloat up, and deal with data retention, when you can hand them a arm system that can be running in 5 minutes and give them all the connections to their work they need. Just they built in support these tools have for offloading data to company servers compared to what it takes to manage that on a windows setup would be a godsend.

Everything we love as tech guys is the same thing we hate about working with people who don't understand computers. If IT departments everywhere could easily turn the general (bottom 80%) of productivity environments into a truly turnkey consumption product they would jump on it as quick as possible.

 

[NTMBK]

Whether it's ARM recently or X86 around 2010, we have hit a point where performance is more than adequate no matter what the product they are using is for simple tasks.

Sadly terribly written JavaScript crap has eaten all those performance gains.

 

[whm1974]

Sadly terribly written JavaScript crap has eaten all those performance gains.

Sad to say, you sure are right.

 

[Gunbuster]

Time for another round, market research must have found the 5 people on earth who after being slapped across the face with two iterations of Win RT and three rounds of being thrown out with the bathwater on Windows Phone are ready to take the plunge again with the blind hope that Microsoft will support this for more than 12 months...

 

[slashy16]

It's clear we will see some sort of integration in the next year or two of core and atom to save power in the mobile space and maybe in desktops if a vendor steps up and starts to actually design new form factors like Intel has been trying to push out with the NUC and compute stick. Apple will most likely push to get ARM integrated into Core packages. As a PC user and fan, it's depressing to see the only innovation in the mobile space and desktop coming from Apple. I have a macbook pro which I use for travel and will have no problem forking over another $3000 when they offer a core/arm hybrid to save power when I am doing simple email tasks. The PC as we know it is rapidly dying and tablets and smart phones are taking over.

The one area where x86 shines and will continue to shine is single or multithread situations where applications can benefit from very fast cores. ARM can't compete with core or ryzen operating at high frequencies and as soon as ARM gets pushed beyond 3ghz it runs into the same power usage problems as x86.

I can see ARM doing well in the server space if Microsoft throws support behind them. There are many situations in my field of work where an office needs a domain controller, file and print server and ARM on windows server would be great for this. Most of the servers we purchase now have 14-16 core Xeons running at 2ghz. There have been very few situations where any virtual machine needs a core running beyond 3+ghz.