Does anyone still...

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Support Conservative values, Bush OR the War in Iraq?

Please post why you support the war or Bush if you do.
Conservatives - why do you consider yourself such?
Or if you don't want to post - PM me - I'm trying to understand why other people are such and what they feel are the reasons for being such.

I am a conservative(mostly) because I feel that the gov't shouldn't be involved in my everyday actions and affairs. I feel people should be held accountable for their own actions and that there are things that should be considered either right or wrong - not in-between. The gov't should only be involved in BASIC governance, not making policy on every little thing.
The war was correct because of these things - Saddam broke his agreement and defied attempts to make him comply.
Bush gets my support because his ideals were more like mine than anyone else running.(this is not to say that I agree with everything he does;) )

Anyone?

You attack wolves stay away please :D <-- you know who you are.

CkG
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Support Conservative values, Bush OR the War in Iraq?

Please post why you support the war or Bush if you do.
Conservatives - why do you consider yourself such?
Or if you don't want to post - PM me - I'm trying to understand why other people are such and what they feel are the reasons for being such.

I am a conservative(mostly) because I feel that the gov't shouldn't be involved in my everyday actions and affairs. I feel people should be held accountable for their own actions and that there are things that should be considered either right or wrong - not in-between. The gov't should only be involved in BASIC governance, not making policy on every little thing.
The war was correct because of these things - Saddam broke his agreement and defied attempts to make him comply.
Bush gets my support because his ideals were more like mine than anyone else running.(this is not to say that I agree with everything he does;) )

Anyone?

You attack wolves stay away please :D <-- you know who you are.

CkG
Your ideals sound more Libertarian, not there is anything wrong with that. In fact I believe both the Republican and Democrat Parties are broken. They are both so bound with corruption they are beyond repair.


 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Support Conservative values, Bush OR the War in Iraq?

Please post why you support the war or Bush if you do.
Conservatives - why do you consider yourself such?
Or if you don't want to post - PM me - I'm trying to understand why other people are such and what they feel are the reasons for being such.

I am a conservative(mostly) because I feel that the gov't shouldn't be involved in my everyday actions and affairs. I feel people should be held accountable for their own actions and that there are things that should be considered either right or wrong - not in-between. The gov't should only be involved in BASIC governance, not making policy on every little thing.
The war was correct because of these things - Saddam broke his agreement and defied attempts to make him comply.
Bush gets my support because his ideals were more like mine than anyone else running.(this is not to say that I agree with everything he does;) )

Anyone?

You attack wolves stay away please :D <-- you know who you are.

CkG
Your ideals sound more Libertarian, not there is anything wrong with that. In fact I believe both the Republican and Democrat Parties are broken. They are both so bound with corruption they are beyond repair.
Libertarian - possibly, but the roots are conservative ;)

Here is a decent site on Conservatism that answers your exact question.
<a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://jkalb.freeshell.org/web/consfaq.html">6.1 How do libertarians differ from conservatives
In general, libertarians emphasize limited government more than conservatives and believe the sole legitimate purpose of government is the protection of property rights against force and fraud. Thus, they usually consider legal restrictions on such things as immigration, drug use, and prostitution to be illegitimate violations of personal liberty. Many but not all libertarians hold a position that might be described as economically Right (anti-socialist) and culturally Left (opposed to what are called cultural repressiveness, racism, sexism, homophobia, and so on), and tend to attribute to state intervention the survival of things the cultural Left dislikes.

Speaking more abstractly, the libertarian perspective assigns to the market the position conservatives assign to tradition as the great accumulator and integrator of the implicit knowledge of society. Some writers, such as F.A. Hayek, attempt to bridge the two perspectives on that issue. In addition, libertarians tend to believe in strict methodological individualism and absolute and universally valid human rights, while conservatives are less likely to have the former commitment and tend to understand rights by reference to the forms they take in particular societies.?</a>

CkG
 

reitz

Elite Member
Oct 11, 1999
3,878
2
76
I support many conservative values, and identify myself as a conservative libertarian.

I support smaller government, fiscal responsibility, states' rights, laissez-faire capitalism, the Bill of Rights (especially the 2nd Amendment), and minimal government intrusion into private citizens' lives.

I do not support Bush, because he specifically does not stand for those conservative values I've listed. Cutting taxes by $1.7 trillion while increasing spending by 23% compared to two years ago does not equate to fiscal responsibility in my eyes. The "No Child Left Behind" mess and Asscroft's crusade against medical marijuanna in California trample states' rights. Secret, closed-door meetings with business leaders to develop an energy policy, bending over backwards for corporate interests ("Healthy Forests", "Clear Skies"), and corporate bailouts are not laissez-faire capitalism. Secret military tribunals, secret arrests, secret searches, secret wiretaps, and "faith-based" social programs are an affront to the liberties supposedly guaranteed by the Bill of Rights that we once took for granted. The Christian agenda is full of intrusions into private citizens' lives (abortion, sodomy, DOMA, etc.) About the only credit I can give Bush on those issues is that, so far, he has not intruded upon the Second Amendment.

I do not support the Gulf War Part II for many reasons. First and foremost, Iraq is not and never was a threat to the security of the United States. Saddam's regime lacked any means to directly threaten us, and his armed forces were so decisively beaten in 1991 that he would not have been able to invade even Kuwait in 2003. Iraq was not a safe haven for terrorists (save for portions of the Kurdish area in the Northern No-Fly Zone not under Hussein's control) and, with the exception of two or three long ago defunct anti-Israeli groups, Saddam was not a supporter of terrorism. Iraq's military was easily checked by Iran and Israel, so Iraq was not a real danger to regional stability. Hussein did develop chemical and biological weapons, but 97% or more of his stockpiles were destroyed by UN weapons inspectors following the Gulf War Part I, and most remaining weapons were likely well beyond their usable shelf-life. I suppose it's theoretically possible that Hussein might have provided biological or chemical weapons to Islamofascist groups such as al-Qaeda, but what use is a mustard gas artillery shell in guerilla and terrorist combat? Nevermind that Hussein feared Islamofascism as much as (if not more than) the US (ideological incompatibilities with his secular regime and all) what could he possibly have provided to terrorists that would be both useful to their combat style and impossible for them to aquire or produce on their own?

I might have been persuaded to support "regime-change" if its stated purpose had been to liberate the Iraqi people, if it had been presented along with a clear plan for both the military confrontation and stabilizing/rebuilding/administering post-war Iraq, and if it had been done with a true international concensus (not necessarily through the UNSC). I can not and will not support a war, however, that is sold to the American public and the international community using lies, fear-mongering, and deceit. i.e. Niger, aluminum tubes, "45-minutes", Cincinatti speech in Oct., the SOTU address, "with us or against us", etc.
 

Fencer128

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,700
1
91
Hi,

I identify with many values. Some of them are the philosophy of the right, others the left. I believe in publicly funded healthcare and welfare, but I also believe that you should always work if able. ie welfare with sensible limits.

People who pigeon hole themselves in one camp or the other should have their policies and ethics thoroughly scrutinised.

Cheers,

Andy
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
98
91
I wonder if Bush thought like you too when he decided to remove the rule of law for 22 million people, most of which already hated us because the previous war and ensuing UN sanctions, and become their occupiers and rulers, while at the same time the whole middle east was laughing at his projections of installing a western style democracy there. If so I vote to impeach you too. :p
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Conservative agenda no longer conserves anything. Dump the facade of state and local government & form a Super Fed.
In the name of States Rights they have trampled over the rights of the States and are forcing them financially, to fall in line or go bust.

Using Patriotic Flag waving, they enacted a Homeland Security Agency to oversee what the population is allowed to participate in -
under the watchful eye of John Ashcroft, who has shown that he will envoke capital punishment for any major infraction.
Toss in the ability to declare 'Enemy Combatants' and 'National Security' to avoid legal counsel to those involved.

Wipe out the air, the forrests, the Caribou, the middle class worker, the bugetary surplus AND the budget,
so those who bankrolled his campaign may reap the rewards of placing him there, so they can harvest the people.

How is anything I listed here conservative ? What is getting conserved ? Conserve means to protect for the benifit of all.
To save assets for the future and keep fiscally responsible so the nation can have what is rightfluuy theirs.
Health care for un-wealthy both elderly and children - that means to protect and conserve the welfare of those who need it.

Financially how many elderly and children, and middle class working adults could have benefited from 1 billion $ a week
being spent on taking care our people, our roadways, our waterways, and our general infrastructure which is falling into
dis-repair aroud us every day. Potholes, bad roads, dangerous bridges, run-down inner citys begging for help to save them.
But no - we tax them and use their financial contribution to fight a war on foriegn soil that the evidence for was fabircated falsely.

Conservative under these Religious Right terms means exactly the opposite of what is should stand for. Spin anybody ?
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Conservative agenda no longer conserves anything. Dump the facade of state and local government & form a Super Fed.
In the name of States Rights they have trampled over the rights of the States and are forcing them financially, to fall in line or go bust.

Using Patriotic Flag waving, they enacted a Homeland Security Agency to oversee what the population is allowed to participate in -
under the watchful eye of John Ashcroft, who has shown that he will envoke capital punishment for any major infraction.
Toss in the ability to declare 'Enemy Combatants' and 'National Security' to avoid legal counsel to those involved.

Wipe out the air, the forrests, the Caribou, the middle class worker, the bugetary surplus AND the budget,
so those who bankrolled his campaign may reap the rewards of placing him there, so they can harvest the people.

How is anything I listed here conservative ? What is getting conserved ? Conserve means to protect for the benifit of all.
To save assets for the future and keep fiscally responsible so the nation can have what is rightfluuy theirs.
Health care for un-wealthy both elderly and children - that means to protect and conserve the welfare of those who need it.

Financially how many elderly and children, and middle class working adults could have benefited from 1 billion $ a week
being spent on taking care our people, our roadways, our waterways, and our general infrastructure which is falling into
dis-repair aroud us every day. Potholes, bad roads, dangerous bridges, run-down inner citys begging for help to save them.
But no - we tax them and use their financial contribution to fight a war on foriegn soil that the evidence for was fabircated falsely.

Conservative under these Religious Right terms means exactly the opposite of what is should stand for. Spin anybody ?

Well said CaptnKirk. I understand why CkG asked the attack wolves to stay away now. :)

A true conservative would throw the entire Bush administration out the highest White House window.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
I has occurred to me that "Heaven on Earth" might be a place where you don't vote... just follow the orders of the guy in the big white house..... can't imagine voting in heaven... so why vote here.. on earth... ? Perhaps to choose the most bestest of us Americans... no?
 

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