Does anyone ever feel like we created enemies out of normal Iraqi citizens and turned frustrated arabs into radicals?

[dahunan]

Does anyone ever feel like we created enemies out of normal Iraqi citizens and turned frustrated arabs into radicals?


It really feels like our "war" there is in neighborhoods and we are killing people who when this war started were just regular civilians in their homes...

 

[Genx87]

Quit watching CBS at night.

I bet the avg Iraqi just wants to get on with their life and not deal with these ignorants blowing themselves up.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Does anyone ever feel like we created enemies out of normal Iraqi citizens and turned frustrated arabs into radicals?


It really feels like our "war" there is in neighborhoods and we are killing people who when this war started were just regular civilians in their homes...

Iraqis have been through two relatively recent wars and a dictator who would randomly toture and kill them. They are used to death and pain. At least with the death and pain they are going through now there something they didn't have previously - hope, and a light at the end of the tunnel of misery they've been in for decades.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Quit watching CBS at night.

I bet the avg Iraqi just wants to get on with their life and not deal with these ignorants blowing themselves up.

Hard to get on with your life when there are well armed soldiers who don't speak your language roaming the streets.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Genx87
Quit watching CBS at night.

I bet the avg Iraqi just wants to get on with their life and not deal with these ignorants blowing themselves up.

Hard to get on with your life when there are well armed soldiers who don't speak your language roaming the streets.

The Germans and Japanese managed it.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Genx87
Quit watching CBS at night.

I bet the avg Iraqi just wants to get on with their life and not deal with these ignorants blowing themselves up.

Hard to get on with your life when there are well armed soldiers who don't speak your language roaming the streets.

The Germans and Japanese managed it.

Yes, but the fighting was over.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Genx87
Quit watching CBS at night.

I bet the avg Iraqi just wants to get on with their life and not deal with these ignorants blowing themselves up.

Hard to get on with your life when there are well armed soldiers who don't speak your language roaming the streets.

The Germans and Japanese managed it.

Yes, but the fighting was over.

I know, different circumstances. Just pointing out that "armed soldiers who don't speak your language roaming the streets" isn't necessarily the only reason for these problems

 

[ValuedCustomer]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Does anyone ever feel like we created enemies out of normal Iraqi citizens and turned frustrated arabs into radicals?

Yea, I betcha they'll never forgive us for giving them an opportunity to choose their own leadership through general elections/private ballots.. shame on us!

It really feels like our "war" there is in neighborhoods and we are killing people who when this war started were just regular civilians in their homes...

Uh huh, cuz before we got there the place was a regular 21st century Shangri-La.

 

[Steeplerot]

The familys of Iraqis I know in SF once you got to know them would say exactly this.
How is it not obvious?

 

[ValuedCustomer]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
The familys of Iraqis I know in SF once you got to know them would say exactly this.

hahahahahahahaahha! riiiight! - tell us, how many "families of Iraqis" do you know? pfft

How is it not obvious?

What's patently obvious here is you fabricating "evidence" to support your whack-job knee-jerks.. puhleease.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: ValuedCustomer

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
The familys of Iraqis I know in SF once you got to know them would say exactly this.

hahahahahahahaahha! riiiight! - tell us, how many "families of Iraqis" do you know? pfft

How is it not obvious?

What's patently obvious here is you fabricating "evidence" to support your whack-job knee-jerks.. puhleease.

Okay then. What if I said MY family thinks this...and so does EVERY IRAQI FAMILY THEY KNOW.

Oh, and they continously call their families throughout Iraq to see how things are.

Then again pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft, I'm only an Iraqi so what do I know!

 

[Steeplerot]

Actually Divisadero street in SF has quite a few Iraqi familys who work at the stores, I fixed their PC's for a few years also.

We would cook each other dinner, watch movies, talk about politics a lot with those not too upset to speak about it, like I have said before

Iraqis are some of the greatest hosts I have ever had the pleasure to call friends. And their salads are top notch!

A shame you live somewhere where their is no culture and/or you do not like someone becasue their skin is brown. This whole war the people closest to us have been the Iraqis.

They have fed us right before payday as we have fed them, they have helped us without question as we would do the same for us anytime.

I hope they are doing well, they were our closest friends for years and never were judgemental or full of drama unlike most white american familys.

We were jsut talking about this and out of all our friends we will miss them the most.
when our house caught on fire they were there for us with blankets, not any of the white neighbors who thought us wierd/and or had a bug up their ass.

I hope we can go there someday, as Iraqi's are a very kind and gracious peoples.

mago, I do not know what your deal is, but pretty unlike the peoples I know.


I remember a few nights as a perfect example, I was out of smokes and ran down to the store, they were all locked up and had their gates closed and waiting for their ride.

I asked em for a smoke tht I could hold onto until I woke up...They would insist giving me the rest of their pack...everytime. I would decline this of course but would usually take it as it made them sad if I outright refused.

It is that level of caring for a neighbor that america has lost.

I think every night before I go to bed and hope with all my heart that their familys back home are safe, I have seen

them call home to a disconnected phone during military actions very scared for their

familys, I have seen them cry outright when a sister or mother has been missing...or gone.

What can you say to a friend in a situation like this? How do you explain that not all americans are hate filled warmongers?

You can't, and the hate makes no sense to call americans civilised if they turn a blind eye to this.

Some of you people in here make me full of shame for your anger at a peoples who have never done us any wrong.

 

[Sysbuilder05]

[
[/quote]

Hard to get on with your life when there are well armed soldiers who don't speak your language roaming the streets.[/quote]

The Germans and Japanese managed it.[/quote]


And the Japanese INVADED the United States unless you forgot. Germany invaded nearly every other country. One HELL of a difference between Japan,German and OUR ilegal invasion of Iraq.

 

[Steeplerot]

America also worked hard to dispel the propaganda that americans wanted the japanesse exterminated after the war was over.

Making friends is a whole different story then what america has done to the people of iraq.

 

[dahunan]

Germany and Japan were both true reconstruction efforts and there were not any ulterior motives like we have in Iraq

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Germany and Japan were both true reconstruction efforts and there were not any ulterior motives like we have in Iraq

They weren't any ulterior motives? You mean we didn't democratize Germany and Japan to stop the spread of radical fascism in the future?

Hmm. That's new to me.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: dahunan
Germany and Japan were both true reconstruction efforts and there were not any ulterior motives like we have in Iraq

They weren't any ulterior motives? You mean we didn't democratize Germany and Japan to stop the spread of radical fascism in the future?

Hmm. That's new to me.

Like the Atomic Bombs weren't indicative of that already?

Like the WORLD was NOT at war??

is that what you meant?

 

[NeenerNeener]

quote:
Originally posted by: dahunan
Germany and Japan were both true reconstruction efforts and there were not any ulterior motives like we have in Iraq

"They weren't any ulterior motives? You mean we didn't democratize Germany and Japan to stop the spread of radical fascism in the future?

Hmm. That's new to me. "

I think he meant that Japan and Germany didn't have a buttload of natural resources that we were desparately in need of for a "New American Century". Spreading Democracy is not an ulterior motive. It's the one they slap on the TV for us all to see. It's funny to see how people try and compare this war to WWII. The only similarity I see was a suicide bombing attack to initiate our involvement. However, we didn't respond to Pearl Harbor.. by invading China. It should have been plain on it's face that Hussein and Bin Laden were nothing alike.

Plus "instilling" or "forcing democracy" on another country cannot be done by the definition of democracy. Did the British force democracy on us? Or did we have to take it for ourselves?

Nope, the WWII comparisons IMO are just spin so that we don't compare this war to the Vietnam war:
They were both occupations initiated based on dubious claims in order to prevent the spread of an "idea".
Both were occupations in the name of advancing a "larger war".
Both had no clear cut goal for troop withdrawl.
Both were supposed to be about winning "hearts and minds" and ended up achieving the opposite.
Both polarized America.

The difference between the two though, is that this war has an axis of religion, and an axis of natural resources. This war makes us look more like imperialists.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: dahunan
Germany and Japan were both true reconstruction efforts and there were not any ulterior motives like we have in Iraq

They weren't any ulterior motives? You mean we didn't democratize Germany and Japan to stop the spread of radical fascism in the future?

Hmm. That's new to me.

Like the Atomic Bombs weren't indicative of that already?

Like the WORLD was NOT at war??

is that what you meant?

You're jumping from one disparate topic to the next. You initially talked of reconstruction. Now you're leaping over to war. So what is it you want to discuss?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Topic Title: Does anyone ever feel like we created enemies out of normal Iraqi citizens and turned frustrated arabs into radicals?

No different than from here except the 49% opposed to the Republicans haven't resorted to bloodshed....................................... yet.

We are certainly still heading that way fast.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

<snip>

You can't, and the hate makes no sense to call americans civilised if they turn a blind eye to this.

Some of you people in here make me full of shame for your anger at a peoples who have never done us any wrong.

*dabs tissue to eyes*

Man, you've got a personal experience for each and every situation that has ever come up in P&N, don't you? (Not that I doubt you for a bit.)


Who is angry at a "people who have never done us any wrong" in here? If I recall, you're about the only one who posts blind hate towards general groups of people. You know, those damn Christians, Republicans, southerners, caucasians, suburbanites.. (any of this sound familiar?)

 

[Engineer]

Yes

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

<snip>

You can't, and the hate makes no sense to call americans civilised if they turn a blind eye to this.

Some of you people in here make me full of shame for your anger at a peoples who have never done us any wrong.

*dabs tissue to eyes*

Man, you've got a personal experience for each and every situation that has ever come up in P&N, don't you? (Not that I doubt you for a bit.)


Who is angry at a "people who have never done us any wrong" in here? If I recall, you're about the only one who posts blind hate towards general groups of people. You know, those damn Christians, Republicans, southerners, caucasians, suburbanites.. (any of this sound familiar?)

Yeah, I get irked and am not the model PC lefty at times, regardless I am up front with my

anger at certain folks. I am not justifying it as it is my own opinion.

And no I do not have a personal story or everthing in P&N I post in select threads that are important to me personally. Notice I stay out of economic threads and stuff becasue it is not someting I have a personal vested interest in.

My anger at certains folks is only half the picture, we get so much crap from less open minded folks and deal with so many people in a nightclub situation with hate filled ideas they spew on me with a few drinks in them it can get pretty annoying to me in here.

I also apologise if it goes to my head also, as I have done quite a few times in P&N, but I will call out messages that do nothing but promote more division between americans and espically things that are important to me with no mercy.

I do not speak for the democrats (or even a registered dem) or leftys, I speak as a person trying to figure out the mess we are in like everyone else in here. The good with the bad.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

<snip>

You can't, and the hate makes no sense to call americans civilised if they turn a blind eye to this.

Some of you people in here make me full of shame for your anger at a peoples who have never done us any wrong.

*dabs tissue to eyes*

Man, you've got a personal experience for each and every situation that has ever come up in P&N, don't you? (Not that I doubt you for a bit.)


Who is angry at a "people who have never done us any wrong" in here? If I recall, you're about the only one who posts blind hate towards general groups of people. You know, those damn Christians, Republicans, southerners, caucasians, suburbanites.. (any of this sound familiar?)

Yeah, I get irked and am not the model PC lefty at times, regardless I am up front with my

anger at certain folks. I am not justifying it as it is my own opinion.

And no I do not have a personal story or everthing in P&N I post in select threads that are important to me personally. Notice I stay out of economic threads and stuff becasue it is not someting I have a personal vested interest in.

My anger at certains folks is only half the picture, we get so much crap from less open minded folks and deal with so many people in a nightclub situation with hate filled ideas they spew on me with a few drinks in them it can get pretty annoying to me in here.

I also apologise if it goes to my head also, as I have done quite a few times in P&N, but I will call out messages that do nothing but promote more division between americans and espically things that are important to me with no mercy.

I do not speak for the democrats (or even a registered dem) or leftys, I speak as a person trying to figure out the mess we are in like everyone else in here. The good with the bad.

That's the most coherent and logical post of your I've ever seen.

:beer:

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

<snip>

You can't, and the hate makes no sense to call americans civilised if they turn a blind eye to this.

Some of you people in here make me full of shame for your anger at a peoples who have never done us any wrong.

*dabs tissue to eyes*

Man, you've got a personal experience for each and every situation that has ever come up in P&N, don't you? (Not that I doubt you for a bit.)


Who is angry at a "people who have never done us any wrong" in here? If I recall, you're about the only one who posts blind hate towards general groups of people. You know, those damn Christians, Republicans, southerners, caucasians, suburbanites.. (any of this sound familiar?)

Yeah, I get irked and am not the model PC lefty at times, regardless I am up front with my

anger at certain folks. I am not justifying it as it is my own opinion.

And no I do not have a personal story or everthing in P&N I post in select threads that are important to me personally. Notice I stay out of economic threads and stuff becasue it is not someting I have a personal vested interest in.

My anger at certains folks is only half the picture, we get so much crap from less open minded folks and deal with so many people in a nightclub situation with hate filled ideas they spew on me with a few drinks in them it can get pretty annoying to me in here.

I also apologise if it goes to my head also, as I have done quite a few times in P&N, but I will call out messages that do nothing but promote more division between americans and espically things that are important to me with no mercy.

I do not speak for the democrats (or even a registered dem) or leftys, I speak as a person trying to figure out the mess we are in like everyone else in here. The good with the bad.

That's the most coherent and logical post of your I've ever seen.

:beer:

:beer: on Engineer for you both!