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Does anyone else remember the repeated vows that this administration wouldn't be involved in "nation building"?

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Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
0
0
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
I propose that the people who led us into that war be held accountable. Every time the subject of Iraq comes up, the response is always "we're here now, let's deal with the situation."

Well, we didn't have to be here. You don't let people off the hook for such a monumental blunder. And it was obvious from day one (at least to those of us with a backbone who opposed it all along). We NEVER had any strategy.

Today, we are having more hearings on Iraq, with NO victory conditions defined. We have no way of measuring success or failure, but we "can't" pull out because of the fear of instability in the region.

I say we can and should pull out. Yes, we will have caused a disaster, but no less so than by remaining in a country unwanted and spending billions of dollars with no strategy and no end in sight.
You hold them accountable by voting them out of office. This includes the administration and the senators who continue to fund the war and originally authorized it. Blunders happen in war all the time. We are human afterall. I can think of a few in WWII that were simply ridiculous.

That said I'd like to see a draw down of troops to begin in 09 to where we have a token presence within Iraq by the middle to end of 2010.
Why do you want it to begin in '09. If you want it done, don't you want it to start now?
bush is not going to be impeached.

there's absolutely no way it's going to happen, the democratic leaders in congress have said as much.
:confused: WTH you talkin bout son

 

babylon5

Golden Member
Dec 11, 2000
1,365
1
0
Ultimately, American people are responsible in our so-called democracy.

At least those 50% Americans who re-elected Bush anyway.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
I propose that the people who led us into that war be held accountable. Every time the subject of Iraq comes up, the response is always "we're here now, let's deal with the situation."

Well, we didn't have to be here. You don't let people off the hook for such a monumental blunder. And it was obvious from day one (at least to those of us with a backbone who opposed it all along). We NEVER had any strategy.

Today, we are having more hearings on Iraq, with NO victory conditions defined. We have no way of measuring success or failure, but we "can't" pull out because of the fear of instability in the region.

I say we can and should pull out. Yes, we will have caused a disaster, but no less so than by remaining in a country unwanted and spending billions of dollars with no strategy and no end in sight.
You hold them accountable by voting them out of office. This includes the administration and the senators who continue to fund the war and originally authorized it. Blunders happen in war all the time. We are human afterall. I can think of a few in WWII that were simply ridiculous.

That said I'd like to see a draw down of troops to begin in 09 to where we have a token presence within Iraq by the middle to end of 2010.
Why do you want it to begin in '09. If you want it done, don't you want it to start now?
It is starting now and will through July. From there nothing is going to happen until the change of the guard. It can happen anytime really. I just tossed the beginning of 09 out there to coincide with a new administation.
That's what I figured.

I agree with you. Sad, really. Realistic...but sad. We've (America) accepted the fact that we won't see any significant draw down till W is out of office. Is it a pride thing with him, you think?

 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,086
493
126
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
I propose that the people who led us into that war be held accountable. Every time the subject of Iraq comes up, the response is always "we're here now, let's deal with the situation."

Well, we didn't have to be here. You don't let people off the hook for such a monumental blunder. And it was obvious from day one (at least to those of us with a backbone who opposed it all along). We NEVER had any strategy.

Today, we are having more hearings on Iraq, with NO victory conditions defined. We have no way of measuring success or failure, but we "can't" pull out because of the fear of instability in the region.

I say we can and should pull out. Yes, we will have caused a disaster, but no less so than by remaining in a country unwanted and spending billions of dollars with no strategy and no end in sight.
You hold them accountable by voting them out of office. This includes the administration and the senators who continue to fund the war and originally authorized it. Blunders happen in war all the time. We are human afterall. I can think of a few in WWII that were simply ridiculous.

That said I'd like to see a draw down of troops to begin in 09 to where we have a token presence within Iraq by the middle to end of 2010.
Why do you want it to begin in '09. If you want it done, don't you want it to start now?
It is starting now and will through July. From there nothing is going to happen until the change of the guard. It can happen anytime really. I just tossed the beginning of 09 out there to coincide with a new administation.
That's what I figured.

I agree with you. Sad, really. Realistic...but sad. We've (America) accepted the fact that we won't see any significant draw down till W is out of office. Is it a pride thing with him, you think?

No, I think he thinks he can really change the part of the world. We are making progress but at some point we have to let them fail on their own terms. 5 years after the fall of Saddam is about as good a time as any to start letting them learn the ropes imo. Weneed to pull back to a German or Japan like occupation. Basically a base or two and we keep to ourselves.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,826
83
91
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
I propose that the people who led us into that war be held accountable. Every time the subject of Iraq comes up, the response is always "we're here now, let's deal with the situation."

Well, we didn't have to be here. You don't let people off the hook for such a monumental blunder. And it was obvious from day one (at least to those of us with a backbone who opposed it all along). We NEVER had any strategy.

Today, we are having more hearings on Iraq, with NO victory conditions defined. We have no way of measuring success or failure, but we "can't" pull out because of the fear of instability in the region.

I say we can and should pull out. Yes, we will have caused a disaster, but no less so than by remaining in a country unwanted and spending billions of dollars with no strategy and no end in sight.
You hold them accountable by voting them out of office. This includes the administration and the senators who continue to fund the war and originally authorized it. Blunders happen in war all the time. We are human afterall. I can think of a few in WWII that were simply ridiculous.

That said I'd like to see a draw down of troops to begin in 09 to where we have a token presence within Iraq by the middle to end of 2010.
Why do you want it to begin in '09. If you want it done, don't you want it to start now?
bush is not going to be impeached.

there's absolutely no way it's going to happen, the democratic leaders in congress have said as much.
:confused: WTH you talkin bout son
the only way to start troop withdraws immediately would be to impeach Bush and Cheney.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
I propose that the people who led us into that war be held accountable. Every time the subject of Iraq comes up, the response is always "we're here now, let's deal with the situation."

Well, we didn't have to be here. You don't let people off the hook for such a monumental blunder. And it was obvious from day one (at least to those of us with a backbone who opposed it all along). We NEVER had any strategy.

Today, we are having more hearings on Iraq, with NO victory conditions defined. We have no way of measuring success or failure, but we "can't" pull out because of the fear of instability in the region.

I say we can and should pull out. Yes, we will have caused a disaster, but no less so than by remaining in a country unwanted and spending billions of dollars with no strategy and no end in sight.
You hold them accountable by voting them out of office. This includes the administration and the senators who continue to fund the war and originally authorized it. Blunders happen in war all the time. We are human afterall. I can think of a few in WWII that were simply ridiculous.

That said I'd like to see a draw down of troops to begin in 09 to where we have a token presence within Iraq by the middle to end of 2010.
Why do you want it to begin in '09. If you want it done, don't you want it to start now?
It is starting now and will through July. From there nothing is going to happen until the change of the guard. It can happen anytime really. I just tossed the beginning of 09 out there to coincide with a new administation.
That's what I figured.

I agree with you. Sad, really. Realistic...but sad. We've (America) accepted the fact that we won't see any significant draw down till W is out of office. Is it a pride thing with him, you think?

No, I think he thinks he can really change the part of the world. We are making progress but at some point we have to let them fail on their own terms. 5 years after the fall of Saddam is about as good a time as any to start letting them learn the ropes imo. Weneed to pull back to a German or Japan like occupation. Basically a base or two and we keep to ourselves.
You could be right about Bush's nobleness. I don't think you are, but that's just my opinion. We may have/will made/make a difference, but do the benefits of that difference justify the costs. IMO, they don't. Obviously, others think they do.

 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,086
493
126
If the place goes into the toilet. Clearly it was not worth it. If it is able to stand on its own two legs then I think a case can be made that it was worth it.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
1
0
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
I propose that the people who led us into that war be held accountable. Every time the subject of Iraq comes up, the response is always "we're here now, let's deal with the situation."

Well, we didn't have to be here. You don't let people off the hook for such a monumental blunder. And it was obvious from day one (at least to those of us with a backbone who opposed it all along). We NEVER had any strategy.

Today, we are having more hearings on Iraq, with NO victory conditions defined. We have no way of measuring success or failure, but we "can't" pull out because of the fear of instability in the region.

I say we can and should pull out. Yes, we will have caused a disaster, but no less so than by remaining in a country unwanted and spending billions of dollars with no strategy and no end in sight.
You hold them accountable by voting them out of office. This includes the administration and the senators who continue to fund the war and originally authorized it. Blunders happen in war all the time. We are human afterall. I can think of a few in WWII that were simply ridiculous.

That said I'd like to see a draw down of troops to begin in 09 to where we have a token presence within Iraq by the middle to end of 2010.
Why do you want it to begin in '09. If you want it done, don't you want it to start now?
bush is not going to be impeached.

there's absolutely no way it's going to happen, the democratic leaders in congress have said as much.
:confused: WTH you talkin bout son
the only way to start troop withdraws immediately would be to impeach Bush and Cheney.

Nope.. that wouldn't do it either.. How are we going to kick out all those McDonalds and Exxon and Mobil and all the other war profiteers... Our Political System is owned by Corporate Interests...
 

Drift3r

Guest
Jun 3, 2003
3,572
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
If the place goes into the toilet. Clearly it was not worth it. If it is able to stand on its own two legs then I think a case can be made that it was worth it.
What are the chances that in 20 years they won't be chanting "Death to America" and not burning American flags.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,604
17
81
There's a bit in my sig about that.
"....the mission needs to be clear..."
Ok, right. Attacking terrorist nations. No, going for oil. No, freeing Iraq. No, spreading democracy by force. D) All of the above

"...and the exit strategy obvious."
As if this part needs any commentary.



Here's the video.

It's a good thing that the Republicans are all in favor of "flip-flopping."
 

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