Does anybody know if the LN32B550 has the RGB Full Range capability ?

[Davv111]

I have a PS3 with HDMI and someone tolded me to set the ps3 settings to RGB FULL Range instead of limited. But only set to FULL only if your TV can support it. Also what about the Super-White setting ? thanks

 

[bob4432]

assuming that is the samsung lcd, try them out - the whites will be brighter and blacks darker

 

[hans030390]

Usually TVs are best left at limited. Super white can stay on.

 

[mmntech]

Limited basically means green isn't included with the colour data. So it depends on how the signal was processed. Most TVs are designed to work best with this system. Greens might look a little better with RGB assuming the content was processed in RGB. That means games only for the most part.

 

[erwos]

mmntech pretty much nails it. That setting doesn't really do what you think it does. Deep color could theoretically help (if any games ever use it, which I doubt they will), but RGB full/limited is more of a workaround for some TVs incorrectly interpreting RGB values coming in over the HDMI/DVI-HDCP and component inputs.

 

[Dari]

Is anyone going to answer his question?

 

[bob4432]

well i just played some mw2 on ps3 via hdmi w/ super white on and on the uav missions, the white washes out too much, so i am going to turn off super white. other than that, w/ full rgb on the colors look very good.

 

[reallyscrued]

Ask in Video forum. It's a TV question.

Or you can call up Samsung, they are pretty helpful. The techs at Samsung seem to know more than the average tech I've dealt with over phones. (Or maybe I got lucky.)

 

[erwos]

Is anyone going to answer his question?

His question is nonsensical. RGB full vs limited is just a workaround for TVs that don't follow spec. It's not a feature or a "capability". Read this:
http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/calibrate-your-system/hdmi-black-levels-xvycc-rgb

The feature the OP needs to be looking for is XvYCC support.

 

[MStele]

His question is nonsensical. RGB full vs limited is just a workaround for TVs that don't follow spec. It's not a feature or a "capability". Read this:
http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/calibrate-your-system/hdmi-black-levels-xvycc-rgb

The feature the OP needs to be looking for is XvYCC support.

All 360 and PS3 games use RGB. XvYCC is only used for videos, therefore knowing whether a TV is RGB Full (which is the full 0-255 pc spec) or RGB limited is important.

To the OP. I have the LN32A550 which is the same tv but older revision. It supports RGB Full so I imagine this one does also, since its a newer revision.

 

[erwos]

All 360 and PS3 games use RGB.

I was under the impression that at least the PS3 can be forced to output in XvYCC all the time. Perhaps I'm misremembering - I'm away from home, so I can't test it.

 

[MStele]

I was under the impression that at least the PS3 can be forced to output in XvYCC all the time. Perhaps I'm misremembering - I'm away from home, so I can't test it.

I think you just got your color spaces mixed up. In regards to the PS3 there are three main color spaces to worry about. RGB, YcbCr, and xvYCC.

RGB - Used for all PS3 software, which includes the operating system and games. RGB is what all computers output, so it should be no secret why its used on all the games and software. Some video formats also use RGB. The PS3 can be forced to output DVD and Blu-ray movies via RGB but this is not the preferred method for these formats. Full RGB support on a tv basically means that it can do the full 0-255 that a computer monitor can do. If you had planned on using a TV with a Media Center PC, then this is important to know.

YcbCr - This is the default color space for all DVD and Blu-ray discs. It is not better or worse than RGB. It is just another way of encoding RGB. Since this is the native format for DVD and Blu-ray discs, it is the preferred way of displaying them. If your PS3 is set on automatic, it will determine if YcbCr is available and if so will use it. Superwhite is an extension of YcbCr, and basically does the same thing to YcbCR that "Full" RGB does to Limited RGB. It basically expands the black levels.

xvYCC - This is a newer colorspace that offers some special features, but the only system currently on the market that can use it is the PS3 and even then it only works with Sony developed AVCHD, which if anyone knows anything about video cameras is the the format used for recording HD with camcorders. Basically, xvYCC is on the PS3 to provide native support for Sony camcorder media files. This might change in the future but thats the way it is now. Since no Blu-ray disc ship as AVCHD (they are usually H.264), xvYCC has no relavance.

 

[Dari]

I think you just got your color spaces mixed up. In regards to the PS3 there are three main color spaces to worry about. RGB, YcbCr, and xvYCC.

RGB - Used for all PS3 software, which includes the operating system and games. RGB is what all computers output, so it should be no secret why its used on all the games and software. Some video formats also use RGB. The PS3 can be forced to output DVD and Blu-ray movies via RGB but this is not the preferred method for these formats. Full RGB support on a tv basically means that it can do the full 0-255 that a computer monitor can do. If you had planned on using a TV with a Media Center PC, then this is important to know.

YcbCr - This is the default color space for all DVD and Blu-ray discs. It is not better or worse than RGB. It is just another way of encoding RGB. Since this is the native format for DVD and Blu-ray discs, it is the preferred way of displaying them. If your PS3 is set on automatic, it will determine if YcbCr is available and if so will use it. Superwhite is an extension of YcbCr, and basically does the same thing to YcbCR that "Full" RGB does to Limited RGB. It basically expands the black levels.

xvYCC - This is a newer colorspace that offers some special features, but the only system currently on the market that can use it is the PS3 and even then it only works with Sony developed AVCHD, which if anyone knows anything about video cameras is the the format used for recording HD with camcorders. Basically, xvYCC is on the PS3 to provide native support for Sony camcorder media files. This might change in the future but thats the way it is now. Since no Blu-ray disc ship as AVCHD (they are usually H.264), xvYCC has no relavance.

If what you and Erwos's link say is true then the OP would have to switch between RGB and YcbCr in order to optimize his image quality when playing games or watching videos, respectfully. That sucks.

 

[MStele]

If what you and Erwos's link say is true then the OP would have to switch between RGB and YcbCr in order to optimize his image quality when playing games or watching videos, respectfully. That sucks.

No. The console automatically uses YcbCr for movies and RGB for everything else, unless you intervene. There is an (RGB, YcbCr, automatic) option. Keep it on automatic and your fine. Note : That setting only affects movies. There is no switching back and forth. All games are RGB. There are no other options.

As to switching back and forth from YcbCR to RGB for movies, just stick in on YcbCR and leave it there. Virtually all DVDs and Blu-ray discs are native YcbCR. There is no reason not to use it. YcbCR is just a difference encoding of RGB. Its very easy to overcomplicate things.

 

[Dari]

No. The console automatically uses YcbCr for movies and RGB for everything else, unless you intervene. There is an (RGB, YcbCr, automatic) option. Keep it on automatic and your fine. Note : That setting only affects movies. There is no switching back and forth. All games are RGB. There are no other options.

So then those with the option can just set the RGB to full and forget about it? OK.

 

[MStele]

So then those with the option can just set the RGB to full and forget about it? OK.

Yes. An easy way to test your tv tho is to download a black level test image and display it on screen. An tv that cannot display Full RGB will not be able to properly display many of the lower levels. This will also be noticeable on games. If your games are alot darker than you think they should be, try going back to limited and check the difference.

 

[erwos]

Yes. An easy way to test your tv tho is to download a black level test image and display it on screen. An tv that cannot display Full RGB will not be able to properly display many of the lower levels. This will also be noticeable on games. If your games are alot darker than you think they should be, try going back to limited and check the difference.

But, here's the thing, at least from what I understand: this only happens when you're using RGB, not the other colorspaces. If you were to simply force output in XvYCC, which theoretically covers the same space (or more) as full RGB, you wouldn't lose any quality (should be a lossless conversion) and you wouldn't need to deal with this issue.

 

[MStele]

But, here's the thing, at least from what I understand: this only happens when you're using RGB, not the other colorspaces. If you were to simply force output in XvYCC, which theoretically covers the same space (or more) as full RGB, you wouldn't lose any quality (should be a lossless conversion) and you wouldn't need to deal with this issue.

First off, you can't force output of XvYCC. There is no option in the PS3 to force it. In order for it to be used, the source files have to be encoded for it, which at this time only includes AVCHD. The fact that the PS3 supports it "does not" mean that it sends XvYCC to the tv. It just means it is capable of reading files encoded with it, which as I said before, are Sony Camcorder HD raw source files. Even if the files were encoded for it, the PS3 is still going to use RGB to send it to the tv..however....I believe that if you have a tv that natively supports XvYCC (which are few) then the PS3 will then send that signal over..but i'm not certain about it because Sony has written nothing official on it. Also, since neither DVD nor Blu-ray supports XvYCC right now, it means squat to movies. Games are all RGB, so it means squat there to. XvYCC is simply a vanity tech right now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XvYCC

"xvYCC is not supported by DVD-Video or Blu-ray, but is supported by the high-definition recording format AVCHD and PlayStation 3."

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"But, here's the thing, at least from what I understand: this only happens when you're using RGB, not the other colorspaces."

The difference between limited and full RGB is merely the number of black levels available, and has nothing to do with the color space itself. Full means 0-255 whereas limited means 16-235. Computer displays have traditionally been 0-255, whereas tvs have been 16-235. Full RGB means your getting the maximum amount of black levels, which translates into better shadows and overall better contrast ratios.

 

[cmdrdredd]

There is an option to set Y Pb / Cb Pr / Cr. This method of output is superior to RGB.

Use it on your TV, it supports that method. Turn super white on as well because it will show whiter than white. Otherwise those get clipped out.

well i just played some mw2 on ps3 via hdmi w/ super white on and on the uav missions, the white washes out too much, so i am going to turn off super white. other than that, w/ full rgb on the colors look very good.

That means you need to calibrate your TV. I've played many games on my PS3 with an LN40B550 which is the same set in a larger screen size. Never get washed out colors.

 

[cmdrdredd]

All 360 and PS3 games use RGB. XvYCC is only used for videos, therefore knowing whether a TV is RGB Full (which is the full 0-255 pc spec) or RGB limited is important.

To the OP. I have the LN32A550 which is the same tv but older revision. It supports RGB Full so I imagine this one does also, since its a newer revision.

No it's not important because both the PS3 and 360 support YPb/CbPr/Cr which is superior.

YcbCr - This is the default color space for all DVD and Blu-ray discs. It is not better or worse than RGB. It is just another way of encoding RGB. Since this is the native format for DVD and Blu-ray discs, it is the preferred way of displaying them. If your PS3 is set on automatic, it will determine if YcbCr is available and if so will use it. Superwhite is an extension of YcbCr, and basically does the same thing to YcbCR that "Full" RGB does to Limited RGB. It basically expands the black levels.

You really need to go read AVSForum or something. Superwhite has nothing to do with Black levels. It allows whiter than whites, which when turned off are clipped.

 

[MStele]

I guess no one bothers to research tech. First of all, all games use RGB. YcbCr is only used for movie playback. Superwhite is a YcbCr tech and has no affect on games. Why do you think the options are only in the video settings, and even then it only has an affect on blu-ray. If we are going to talk about the merits of tech, at least know where it applies.

http://au.playstation.com/ps3/suppo...b-Cb-Pr-Cr-Super-White-%28HDMI)-settings/

If you don't believe me, theres an official sony page on the matter. Take a note that these options fall under the settings that have to do with movies only. As I've said 4-5 times, ALL games use RGB. These techs have NOTHING to do with it. Therefore, they do not benefit from these, and thus choose between Full and Limited RGB (black levels) is important for getting the most out of whatever tv your using.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I guess no one bothers to research tech. First of all, all games use RGB. YcbCr is only used for movie playback. Superwhite is a YcbCr tech and has no affect on games. Why do you think the options are only in the video settings, and even then it only has an affect on blu-ray. If we are going to talk about the merits of tech, at least know where it applies.

http://au.playstation.com/ps3/suppo...st-Y-Pb-Cb-Pr-Cr-Super-White-(HDMI)-settings/

If you don't believe me, theres an official sony page on the matter. Take a note that these options fall under the settings that have to do with movies only. As I've said 4-5 times, ALL games use RGB. These techs have NOTHING to do with it. Therefore, they do not benefit from these, and thus choose between Full and Limited RGB (black levels) is important for getting the most out of whatever tv your using.

No it doesn't. You should calibrate your TV using a calibration disk when the system is set on YcbCr. Seriously, go read AVSForum. The Xbox360 has similar settings and they don't recommend using RGB from the menu. I have had my TV calibrated and adjusted when using this mode and I don't have to muck around with any RGB settings at all. Everything looks clear, no black crush, no overbrightness etc. Yes amazing isn't it?

 

[MStele]

No it doesn't. You should calibrate your TV using a calibration disk when the system is set on YcbCr. Seriously, go read AVSForum. The Xbox360 has similar settings and they don't recommend using RGB from the menu. I have had my TV calibrated and adjusted when using this mode and I don't have to muck around with any RGB settings at all. Everything looks clear, no black crush, no overbrightness etc. Yes amazing isn't it?

Are we talking games or movies here? If your using a calibration disc, it means your running as YcbCr which means you are absolutely right about your calibrations. I mentioned earlier downloading a black level image and displaying it using your picture viewer, because then you can calibrate your RGB input on your tv, as RGB is what the PS3 is using unless you run a dvd or blu-ray disc. My point is that it is still important to have RGB properly setup so that you get those most out of your games, as well as your media files. It is well known that RGB is not the preferred setting when watching movies. I think we are arguing two sides of the same coin. I know for my tv, which is the same model in which the OP is posting, it detects whether it's receiving an RGB or YcbCr signal and remembers what I set for each of them. Each signal type has different options in my tv that will unlock and lock based on which is used at the time. For me, I did in fact calibrate the RGB and YcbCr signals independently on my tv although they share the same input cable.

I'm going to make this my last post because I think your misunderstanding my angle. I absolutely think your correct in what your saying in regards to calibrating YcbCr, but your wrong in thinking it applies universally to everything the PS3 displays, including games. All digital media files, such as mp4, wmv and divx are displayed as RGB. YcbCr only applies to dvds and blu-ray discs.

This is direct from the PS3 settings. This setting is not universal for all video output. :


BD / DVD Video Output Format (HDMI)

Set the video output format to use when playing a BD or DVD. Set this option when the system is connected to a TV using an HDMI cable. Adjust the settings as necessary for the TV in use.
Automatic Set to automatically select the best video output format for the TV in use.

RGB Set to output in RGB.

Y Pb / Cb Pr / Cr Set to output in Y Pb / Cb Pr / Cr.



In closing, it is important to know whether your tv supports Full/Limited RGB, REGARDLESS of whether YcbCr is used for your movies or not, because the RGB affects your games and video files. I can't make you believe me, so i'm just going to leave you to do your own research. To the OP, good luck with your tv.

 

[bob4432]

There is an option to set Y Pb / Cb Pr / Cr. This method of output is superior to RGB.

Use it on your TV, it supports that method. Turn super white on as well because it will show whiter than white. Otherwise those get clipped out.



That means you need to calibrate your TV. I've played many games on my PS3 with an LN40B550 which is the same set in a larger screen size. Never get washed out colors.

the tv has been calibrated and colors look excellent, maybe it is this particular game or going though hdmi because it doesn't look like the 360 version going through either vga or component. it is only the uav/tv type scenes on mw2, the rest of the game looks excellent. i was messed up yesterday so i will turn the setting off and see if that takes care of it.

 

[BD2003]

the tv has been calibrated and colors look excellent, maybe it is this particular game or going though hdmi because it doesn't look like the 360 version going through either vga or component. it is only the uav/tv type scenes on mw2, the rest of the game looks excellent. i was messed up yesterday so i will turn the setting off and see if that takes care of it.

Youre supposedly getting the feed from the uav through thermal optics over an iffy satellite connection. Its not supposed to look high quality, its intentionally made to look crappy in-game. I think youre trying to fix a problem that doesnt exist.