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Does anybody else think it's bull the way NFL is teating Vick?

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,386
3
81
Now the Falcons are going to suspend him for 4 games due to fighting animals allegations. keep in mind when you're suspended no pay either. Since when was an indictment a guilty verdict? I think it's a shame.
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,674
482
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The evidence against him seems pretty substantial. I don't necessarily agree that every player who is accused of something should immediately be suspended, but the NFL is always concerned with its image. Kinda funny considering the Bengals, though. :p
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
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I believe the NFL has a behavior policy which does not require one to be convicted of a crime before they are punished.

Based on what little I have read about the case and the evidence I wouldn?t be surprised if Vick never plays in the NFL again.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,386
3
81
Can't argue that NFL has been successful in avoiding the thug image that's killing BBall ATM. But still I think it's bull because it's not like he killed someone or strangled a coach or something.
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
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482
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Well, I haven't read about the case myself, but what I've *heard* being said is they have evidence he personally took a hand in the killing (by very inhumane means) of losing animals. That kind of thing is always going to anger and disgust people more than getting busted for dope or having a fight on the field.
 
Jun 27, 2005
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The statements from the league have been to the effect that "We are very disappointed in Michael Vick for having put himself in the position to be indicted for dog fighting" or something like that.

They are a private employer and they can punish their players as they see fit. Lets not forget that PacMan Jones is suspended for the year and he has yet to be convicted of anything either. Travis Henry... same thing.

The theory goes that you don't get arrested 12 times on accident, mistaken identity or any other way that would indicate that you weren't out getting into trouble. Same thing goes with a federal indictment. That doesn't happen by accident. Some will raise the argument that you can indict a ham sandwich. In the case of small town prosecutors *cough*Nifong*cough* that is true. But the feds do not operate that way.

The district Vick was indicted in has a 99+% conviction rate since 2000. They don't bring indictments unless they know for a fact they have an air tight MF of a case. Think of the Chuck Norris joke: "CN doesn't go hunting, that implies the possibility of failure. CN goes killing." That's a federal prosecutor.

I think the league is right to suspend him. I think the league has to do whatever is necessary to protect its image.

 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,083
189
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I think they should go even further and send him to prison for a year - screw four games let him miss an entire season.... This is a great way to give public criticizing... since if someone wants to fight animals be it chickens dogs whatever for gambling sport fun... Then we should show the kids what happens when your participate in these activities.

My thoughts we haven't done enough...
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,386
3
81
I guess this dog fighting deal is huge with some people... Used to be a gentleman's sport...suit and tie affair in the 40's in the south. I am indifferent to it i guess.. not something I'd go see but at the same time animals are just that animals. I shoot them catch them and feel they are food and lessor in some way. No Biggie and dogs like to fight so let them.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
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He's just another cog in today's "guilty until proven guilty" society. As soon as the news gets ahold of an accusation, it is assumed that the person is guilty, period, even if (or after) he is later acquitted by a jury. I'm not saying that all acquittals are correct, but either we believe in our justice system or we don't, and I think that many people don't at this point, which has led to the current mindset. It's sad to see that it has come to this and I disagree with it vehemently, but understand the practical reason for why people think this way.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
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You frequently need to be convicted beyond a reasonable doubt in a criminal court. Businesses, however, don't need to follow this burden of proof. There are many professional organizations that will punish members even where someone has been acquitted. (Remember an acquittal doesn't mean you're proven innocent, it means you were not proven guilty by a certain standard. [See O.J. Simpson saga.])

Furthermore, it would be ridiculous to suggest that a business would have to prove employee misconduct beyond a reasonable doubt before taking action. Why should the NFL have to conduct a mini-trial or wait for the wheels of justice to turn before it takes action?
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,224
201
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I think what many of you miss is that these are Federal Charges.

I heard the conviction rate is as high as 95 percent.

Man is in a whole mess of trouble.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,083
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Originally posted by: Zebo
I guess this dog fighting deal is huge with some people... Used to be a gentleman's sport...suit and tie affair in the 40's in the south. I am indifferent to it i guess.. not something I'd go see but at the same time animals are just that animals. I shoot them catch them and feel they are food and lessor in some way. No Biggie and dogs like to fight so let them.
Do you even have any pet animals?

I guess to me, I don't see any difference in humans (primates) then any other animals on this earth. We are all here to live together. Hunting and trapping / eating is different then watching a dog suffer and die. They don't normally fight and if they do they don't fight to the death. Usually a pack has an alpha member that keeps everyone else in line.

Humans do some incredible inhuman things to animals that they are betting on. Money makes people go the extra mile to win. Most of the EXTRA stuff is pure evil and rotten. I don't think training a dog all it's life to be extremely aggressive to other animals is natural in nature.

Dogfighting is illegal in all 50 states and a felony offense in almost every state. How hard is it to FOLLOW THE LAWS in the USA? That is why we have laws... You want to do illegal acts then don't you think we should punish him? I do, what's so hard about that?

 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
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Originally posted by: ericlp
Do you even have any pet animals?

I guess to me, I don't see any difference in humans (primates) then any other animals on this earth. We are all here to live together. Hunting and trapping / eating is different then watching a dog suffer and die. They don't normally fight and if they do they don't fight to the death. Usually a pack has an alpha member that keeps everyone else in line.

Humans do some incredible inhuman things to animals that they are betting on. Money makes people go the extra mile to win. Most of the EXTRA stuff is pure evil and rotten. I don't think training a dog all it's life to be extremely aggressive to other animals is natural in nature.

Dogfighting is illegal in all 50 states and a felony offense in almost every state. How hard is it to FOLLOW THE LAWS in the USA? That is why we have laws... You want to do illegal acts then don't you think we should punish him? I do, what's so hard about that?
No one is suggesting that he should not be punished if he is found guilty. We are merely suggesting that we wait until he is proven guilty, not merely accused, before punishment.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
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Ok? someone who works at a day care center is arrested and accused of molesting a child. Do you wait until that person is convicted before you remove them from their job and cut off their access to other children?

The NFL has an image to protect and there is a LOT of money riding on protecting that image. It is in their best interest to be proactive in a case like this.

And think about it? if the NFL allows Vick to play his presence will overshadow everything that happens on the field. They can?t afford to let this happen.
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,224
201
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ok? someone who works at a day care center is arrested and accused of molesting a child. Do you wait until that person is convicted before you remove them from their job and cut off their access to other children?

The NFL has an image to protect and there is a LOT of money riding on protecting that image. It is in their best interest to be proactive in a case like this.

And think about it? if the NFL allows Vick to play his presence will overshadow everything that happens on the field. They can?t afford to let this happen.
I think this story will still overshadow the upcoming season.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
67,522
4,198
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We have created a dog eat dog world and the dog fight allows us to feel our feelings about our own lives vicariously. The viciousness and violence the dogs do to each other is just like what we do and what is done to us. We are magnetized always by our own unconscious feelings and seek to experience them always indirectly by a back door.
 
Jun 27, 2005
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We have created a dog eat dog world and the dog fight allows us to feel our feelings about our own lives vicariously. The viciousness and violence the dogs do to each other is just like what we do and what is done to us. We are magnetized always by our own unconscious feelings and seek to experience them always indirectly by a back door.
Nobody back-doored Vick.
 

kedlav

Senior member
Aug 2, 2006
632
0
0
Originally posted by: Zebo
Now the Falcons are going to suspend him for 4 games due to fighting animals allegations. keep in mind when you're suspended no pay either. Since when was an indictment a guilty verdict? I think it's a shame.
They're suspending him for conduct detrimental to the team. There's little doubt this media frenzy, PETA boycotts, etc. is very detrimental to the team and the NFL. Further suspensions are possible from the NFL, but I think they'll sit on their hands at least until around the end of the preseason to see how the federal case is going
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
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Other than for the degree of cruelty and the sophistication of the animal's brain, what is the difference between dog-fighting and sports fishing?

Why is it acceptable - as "sport" - to entice an animal to snag itself on a metal hook, and then force it to fight for its life to the point of complete exhaustion? The fact that many of these fish are released alive doesn't excuse the terror they have been forced to experience.

Why, in the U.S., is it acceptable to raise cows for food, but not dogs?

We're all hypocrites.
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,063
869
126
Burn! Anyone who raises fighting Pit Bulls should have their ass (and their testicles) shot off. :|
 
Jun 27, 2005
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Originally posted by: shira
Other than for the degree of cruelty and the sophistication of the animal's brain, what is the difference between dog-fighting and sports fishing?

Why is it acceptable - as "sport" - to entice an animal to snag itself on a metal hook, and then force it to fight for its life to the point of complete exhaustion? The fact that many of these fish are released alive doesn't excuse the terror they have been forced to experience.

Why, in the U.S., is it acceptable to raise cows for food, but not dogs?

We're all hypocrites.
Fucking PETA morons... Sorry, but that kind of logic is just beyond my comprehension. This is the kind of thinking that makes people think that ALF and PETA are chock full of brain dead morons.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
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Originally posted by: Zebo
I guess this dog fighting deal is huge with some people... Used to be a gentleman's sport...suit and tie affair in the 40's in the south. I am indifferent to it i guess.. not something I'd go see but at the same time animals are just that animals. I shoot them catch them and feel they are food and lessor in some way. No Biggie and dogs like to fight so let them.
And we used to enjoy a good gladiatorial session, too, didn't we?

 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,325
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Originally posted by: Zebo
I guess this dog fighting deal is huge with some people... Used to be a gentleman's sport...suit and tie affair in the 40's in the south. I am indifferent to it i guess.. not something I'd go see but at the same time animals are just that animals. I shoot them catch them and feel they are food and lessor in some way. No Biggie and dogs like to fight so let them.
It sure doesn't appear to be a "gentleman's sport" anymore.

In or about April 2007, PEACE, PHILLIPS, and VICK executed approximately 8 dogs that did not perform well in "testing" sessions...by various methods, including hanging, drowning, and slamming at least one dog's body to the ground."
Shooting a deer for food is light years away from electrocuting, drowning or slamming a dog's body into the ground because they did not fight well enough.


South Carolina's attorney general Henry McMaster paints an equally gruesome picture.

He tells of dogs being poked with electric prods to make them go harder during training, or being tied to the back of a pickup for long, grueling runs. He said he believes family pets have been stolen to serve as "bait dogs" ? helpless animals that help ensure a pit bull has the proper bloodlust for an actual fight.

"They will tape the mouth shut so the bait dog can't hurt their prized pit bull," McMaster said. "Then they'll put them in the pit and let them be chewed to pieces. They want their dogs to learn how to kill."
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,665
46
91
Vick has the option to sue for lost wages and just compensation if he ends up not guilty.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
15,507
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Originally posted by: shira
Other than for the degree of cruelty and the sophistication of the animal's brain, what is the difference between dog-fighting and sports fishing?

So, you think the degree of cruelty isn't enough to make it illegal?

Why is it acceptable - as "sport" - to entice an animal to snag itself on a metal hook, and then force it to fight for its life to the point of complete exhaustion? The fact that many of these fish are released alive doesn't excuse the terror they have been forced to experience.

Why, in the U.S., is it acceptable to raise cows for food, but not dogs?

We're all hypocrites.



Except the people who stage the dogfights, right?

Their actions may be illegal, cruel and barbaric, but thank God they're not Hypocrites!
 

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