Does American society view homosexuality as moral?

Page 6 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Does American Society see homosexuality as morally acceptable?

  • Yes, the majority of American society does view homosexuality as morally OK

  • No, The majority of American society does not view homosexuality as morally OK

  • America is, more or less 50/50 split on homosexuality

  • I have no idea, and just wanted to vote in the poll.


Results are only viewable after voting.

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
I'm buysexual, how much does my vote count?

that's not up to me, it seems to be up to zsdersw...

No, your definition says that anyone who views homosexuality as immoral is a homophobe. Using Google as the arbiter (your desired authority, not mine), the most common definition is a person who has "fear and hatred of homosexuals and/or homosexuality". Judging something moral or immoral is not necessarily rooted in fear and hatred. Upbringing and experience is a large contributor as well. Unfamiliarity, when changed to familiarity, very often does not result in fear and hatred.

I disagree, negatively judging someones life style purely based on their sexuality is a negative prejudice based on sexuality alone, and given that the definition you mentioned was actually "prejudice against (fear or dislike of) homosexual people and homosexuality" Prejudice against, which is sub-defined as "fear or dislike" then someone who is prejudice against homosexual people can be said to be basing that prejudice purely on the sexual orientation of the person. And if someone is considering a person's lifestyle to be immoral, based on their sexual orientation then they are clearly prejudicing against them based solely on their sexual orientation.

Thus. Homophobe.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
So, which states in the US comprise what you consider the "middle-west"? I'm curious, because you seem like someone who doesn't have a clue.

Somewhere where there are more churches and talk radio then functional braincells.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
You didn't answer my question. Which US states?

Dumbfuckistan has no borders except within the folds of grey matter inside ones skull. Generally you can find these folks hiding in more rural areas without much cultural diversity which feeds ignorance.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
I disagree, negatively judging someones life style purely based on their sexuality is a negative prejudice based on sexuality alone, and given that the definition you mentioned was actually "prejudice against (fear or dislike of) homosexual people and homosexuality" Prejudice against, which is sub-defined as "fear or dislike" then someone who is prejudice against homosexual people can be said to be basing that prejudice purely on the sexual orientation of the person. And if someone is considering a person's lifestyle to be immoral, based on their sexual orientation then they are clearly prejudicing against them based solely on their sexual orientation.

Thus. Homophobe.

Incorrect reasoning for a a couple reasons. Consider the following:

1. Prejudice is not sub-defined as you say it is: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prejudice. Prejudice exists for many reasons, not necessarily fear or hatred.

2. Someone who is prejudiced against homosexual people is very often a totally different person from someone who merely thinks homosexuality is immoral. Many who think homosexuality is immoral have no difficulty or problem separating their moral objections with someone's sexuality from their appraisal of the person as a whole; they do not let sexuality unduly color their attitude toward the person as a whole.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Many who think homosexuality is immoral have no difficulty or problem separating their moral objections with someone's sexuality from their appraisal of the person as a whole.

Bullshit, if you buy that I got some swampland for you. I wouldn't trust someone who thinks I am inherently a bad person for nothing other then how I was born based off some irrational unprovable fairy tale. You should stand up for yourself if you have self respect. That is ignorance and you are making excuses for it.

This is the same bs justifications for racism in the 60s. Equal but separate is wrong.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
Incorrect reasoning for a a couple reasons. Consider the following:

1. Prejudice is not sub-defined as you say it is: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prejudice. Prejudice exists for many reasons, not necessarily fear or hatred.

2. Someone who is prejudiced against homosexual people is very often a totally different person from someone who merely thinks homosexuality is immoral. Many who think homosexuality is immoral have no difficulty or problem separating their moral objections with someone's sexuality from their appraisal of the person as a whole; they do not let sexuality unduly color their attitude toward the person as a whole.

1. I'm not sub defining it, the definition of homophobia sub defines it (in brackets)

2. It is impossible to think that a fundamental characteristic about a persons life is immoral, without thinking that the person's lifestyle is immoral, that person would therefore think that the person acts immorally, a person who acts immorally is an immoral person. Thinking someone is an immoral person based on their sexual orientation, is prejudicial. Homophobic.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
Dumbfuckistan has no borders except within the folds of grey matter inside ones skull.

Then you shouldn't have specified a specific region of a country.

Generally you can find these folks hiding in more rural areas without much cultural diversity which feeds ignorance.

I've seen plenty of tolerance and acceptance in rural areas, and plenty of intolerance in urban ones. Generalization FAIL.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
There is a distinct difference between considering homosexuality to be immoral and accepting a homosex person as a member of society. Many people also consider things like adultery or sex before marriage to be a sin or to be immoral, however, we dont hate people that live together without being married. Just because people consider an action to be wrong or immoral, it does not mean we hate people or frear people for doing the action.

Remember, just because abortion is legal, it does not mean that is is necessarily the best thing for society. It is legal to get divorced, but it is not neccesarily the best course of action for a married couple, the first time something goes wrong. Life is not perfect and we often have to work for the betterment of ourselves and society. That is the object of a moral civilization. It is not about the self, but about the society.

Simple minded people are often the ones who think in absolutes. Paul in the Bible is considered to be a great apostle. However, after Jesus died he hunted down Christians and persecuted them and had the Romans imprison them and kill them. Then he changed his mind and became a Christian himself, was accepted by his fellow Christians, and traveled all over spreading the Gospel and strengthening the Church. Just like Paul, people can change their attitudes and work for good instead of evil.
 
Last edited:

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
Bullshit, if you buy that I got some swampland for you. I wouldn't trust someone who thinks I am inherently a bad person for nothing other then how I was born based off some irrational unprovable fairy tale. You should stand up for yourself if you have self respect. That is ignorance and you are making excuses for it.

This is the same bs justifications for racism in the 60s. Equal but separate is wrong.

I don't have to buy it.. I've experienced it myself, many times. They don't see me as a homosexual.. they see me for everything else I am.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Then you shouldn't have specified a specific region of a country.



I've seen plenty of tolerance and acceptance in rural areas, and plenty of intolerance in urban ones. Generalization FAIL.

Poll after poll shows the middle part of america having some defect in being able to normally advance socially with the rest of the USA. There is something very wrong. I know what you are saying, but pound for pound you are going to find more bigotry in Iowa then New York for some reason, and thats a unfortunate fact about our country.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
I don't have to buy it.. I've experienced it myself, many times. They don't see me as a homosexual.. they see me for everything else I am.

We all want acceptance from our peers, but you seem to need to justify others intolerance. I would suggest moving to somewhere with more gay folk and seeing what its like being around folks who actually accept you for who you are unconditionally? It's a gratifying feeling to realize the bigotry is just others fucked up headtrips that mean nothing irl and you do not need to accept it. I see what point you are at in your head I think now, I hope you realize this soon.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
Poll after poll shows the middle part of america having some defect in being able to normally advance socially with the rest of the USA. There is something very wrong. I know what you are saying, but pound for pound you are going to find more bigotry in Iowa then New York for some reason, and thats a unfortunate fact about our country.

No, what's infinitely more accurate is to say that bigotry is everywhere, just not necessarily toward the same things.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
Most Americans don't see homosexuality as immoral anymore aside from the Christian Conservatives.

I don't know if most women wouldn't date a bisexual man... But the one woman I know who had sex regularly with a bisexual was the only person I know who has had an HIV scare. There's a big difference between MSM in America and MSM in Europe. 20% of men who have sex with men in America have HIV. They're a hell of a disease vector.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
We all want acceptance from our peers, but you seem to need to justify others intolerance. I would suggest moving to somewhere with more gay folk and seeing what its like being around folks who actually accept you for who you are unconditionally?

It's amazing how you don't even know zsdersw and assume so much about him.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
We all want acceptance from our peers, but you seem to need to justify others intolerance. I would suggest moving to somewhere with more gay folk and seeing what its like being around folks who actually accept you for who you are unconditionally? It's a gratifying feeling to realize the bigotry is just others fucked up headtrips that mean nothing irl and you do not need to accept it. I see what point you are at in your head I think now, I hope you realize this soon.

I'm not justifying anyone's intolerance... I'm pointing out that your generalizations and stereotypes are not functionally different than theirs.

I don't need anyone's acceptance. I'm 30 years old and have my life in order.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
Most Americans don't see homosexuality as immoral anymore aside from the Christian Conservatives.

I don't know if most women wouldn't date a bisexual man... But the one woman I know who had sex regularly with a bisexual was the only person I know who has had an HIV scare. There's a big difference between MSM in America and MSM in Europe. 20% of men who have sex with men in America have HIV.

Wow, well that certainly explains that. The women I know see bisexuality as a bonus (generally) when it comes to dating.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
No, what's infinitely more accurate is to say that bigotry is everywhere, just not necessarily toward the same things.

The reality is that it is not a blanket problem from area to area. Some are worse then others. If this is where you are from I apologize for offending you about your home but the midwest is the capital of bigotry, ignorance and intolerance. It is what it is, folks who justify the ststus quo as to not "rock the boat" when someone else is being a bigot helps nothing. (just dont turn into a fundie also!)

You remind me of the story of the meek jew in Germany who stayed quiet to be polite, lot of good it got them eh?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
7,126
738
126
1. I'm not sub defining it, the definition of homophobia sub defines it (in brackets)

2. It is impossible to think that a fundamental characteristic about a persons life is immoral, without thinking that the person's lifestyle is immoral, that person would therefore think that the person acts immorally, a person who acts immorally is an immoral person. Thinking someone is an immoral person based on their sexual orientation, is prejudicial. Homophobic.

You still haven't answered my question. Should people who find stealing immoral be labeled as bigots and haters because people are born/raised with the tendency to steal? What about those who find infidelity immoral when some of the people involved have an uber libido and a natural inclination to cheat on their spouse, are they all bigots too?

What I hear you and others saying is that any natural inclination/desire we have should not be labeled as immoral if we pursue it and that anybody who does so is a bigot.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
What I hear you and others saying is that any natural inclination/desire we have should not be labeled as immoral if we pursue it and that anybody who does so is a bigot.

If it is consenting it is noone elses concern. Your views on another's "immorality" is ones own bigotry. Not the worlds problem.

Besides, if you are going to judge one by "morality" then they have every right to call YOUR hypocritical morals to the floor. Lets not get into the bible and raping women, taking slaves, genocide etc etc etc compared. How can you say one person is immoral based off the probably most immoral divisive and violent piece of propaganda on the planet?

Stick your hypocritical morals where the sun dont shine jerk. Take some advice from the moldy old tome and judge not lest you be judged. Funny how thats one aspect conviently overlooked.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
You still haven't answered my question. Should people who find stealing immoral be labeled as bigots and haters because people are born/raised with the tendency to steal? What about those who find infidelity immoral when some of the people involved have an uber libido and a natural inclination to cheat on their spouse, are they all bigots too?

What I hear you and others saying is that any natural inclination/desire we have should not be labeled as immoral if we pursue it and that anybody who does so is a bigot.

Sorry I missed that, they aren't bigots but they could be prejudiced to people who steal. The same as i'm prejudiced to nazi's. I've not met one, but I think that Nazi-ism is immoral.

It's an interesting point, but I would argue the reason that we call homophobes bigots and people who are prejudiced against thieves non-biggots is because thieves negatively effect others, homosexuality doesn't.

After googling "bigot" - A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs. I suppose if someone is "obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices [regarding thieves]" then bigot is a valid term for them....

A thieves lifestyle does negatively effect joe average, so I see no reason why being prejudiced to them should be a problem.

Edit: The negative stereotype that gay people [not sure what the stereotypes are but pop one in here to complete the sentence] or the negative stereotype that black people... steal? are both absurd and false. The stereotype that thieves steal is fact.
 
Last edited:

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
You still haven't answered my question. Should people who find stealing immoral be labeled as bigots and haters because people are born/raised with the tendency to steal? What about those who find infidelity immoral when some of the people involved have an uber libido and a natural inclination to cheat on their spouse, are they all bigots too?

What I hear you and others saying is that any natural inclination/desire we have should not be labeled as immoral if we pursue it and that anybody who does so is a bigot.

As long as society has been society, and probably before, everyone was "bigoted" against other people stealing their shit. What is deemed permissible discrimination changes over time. In 1750 you weren't considered a bigot if you thought blacks were only good as slaves. Couple centuries later you would be. Decades ago you would not be a bigot for thinking gays shouldn't have equal rights. Today, given what we now know, that makes you a bigot. Homosexuality doesn't mean you have a psychological disorder or that you are possessed by demons, once popular modes of thought. Today they are part of the new normal.

Not that it's really necessary to add, but being bigoted against thieves is rational, as opposed to bigotry against gays.