Does AMD have any hope against Intel?

[Ryanrenesis]

While doing an accounting project, I came across Intel's annual research & development (R&D) budget. It is a mind-blowing 11 billion dollars.

Just to put that into perspective, that's more than TWICE and almost THREE TIMES AMD's entire company including all its assets.

R&D is what secures a company's future, and seeing these numbers just made me realize... is AMD just going to give up? Maybe focus only on GPUs? In some ways, it seems like they're already giving up, having not made any breakthrough in architecture since May 2012 when Piledriver was released. And even that isn't really considered a "breakthrough".

What do you guys think? Will you guys be happy if AMD falls out the CPU market and Intel gets crowned sole king of CPUs? Will CPU prices rise?

Very dim future for AMD in the CPU market...

 

[CHADBOGA]

I don't know whether or not AMD has a future beyond this decade, but they don't necessarily need to compete head on against Intel in all segments.

There will be niches they can surely exploit, if they take the right approach.

 

[KingFatty]

I don't think it's a race to see who is the fastest. It's like an ecosystem, where Intel can be at the top, and AMD can be at the bottom.

Just because there is a shark, doesn't mean swordfish will die out - there is room for both, and Intel can charge big bucks for the fanciest CPU, and AMD can charge low bucks for the entry-level commodity (or non-gaming) computers.

 

[Ryanrenesis]

I don't think it's a race to see who is the fastest. It's like an ecosystem, where Intel can be at the top, and AMD can be at the bottom.

Just because there is a shark, doesn't mean swordfish will die out - there is room for both, and Intel can charge big bucks for the fanciest CPU, and AMD can charge low bucks for the entry-level commodity (or non-gaming) computers.

That's true, but that's only if Intel lets AMD secure the entry-level market right? Intel can easily afford to kill AMD in entry-level segment. I have a feeling Intel is actually letting AMD live at this point.

 

[dontsh00tmesanta]

Someday

 

[SlowSpyder]

I don't think AMD will ever again topple Intel in absolute performance. But, that doesn't mean they can't make products that people want and will buy.

 

[Qwertilot]

Well I rather doubt if anyone wants an actual monopoly. Suppliers do need some options. You'd probably see something like full windows on Arm rather quickly if AMD folded.

As it happens, if AMD have done a good job with Zen so its 'good enough' in terms of CPU fire power and efficiency and HBM finally lets them ramp the iGPU up to really usable levels they might well be fairly well placed for some markets.

 

[Thala]

You'd probably see something like full windows on Arm rather quickly if AMD folded.

Windows RT == full Windows on ARM; technically Windows RT is somewhere between standard and pro SKU feature-wise

Independent of the question if AMD survives or not, Microsoft had to go into this direction. ARM architecture is heavily attacking from below with fully synthesizable cores and low royalties.
In this regard AMD is more friend as they still embrace IA. ARM getting foothold in PC and Server market would be a disaster for Intel.

The more interesting question is, why Microsoft still has the signature enforcement for desktop programs in place for Windows RT.

 

[Ryanrenesis]

Well I rather doubt if anyone wants an actual monopoly. Suppliers do need some options. You'd probably see something like full windows on Arm rather quickly if AMD folded.

As it happens, if AMD have done a good job with Zen so its 'good enough' in terms of CPU fire power and efficiency and HBM finally lets them ramp the iGPU up to really usable levels they might well be fairly well placed for some markets.

To be honest, I want AMD gone. The sooner the better.

I have a huge vendetta against AMD. You see... I had AMD CPUs all my life, my first PC had an Athlon K7... then came the x64 stuff I had that too... Then I upgraded to a Phenom triple-core then to a Phenom II quad, never used an Intel CPU before as I was a huge AMD fan boy.

Then... My life was about to change, I decided to give in and try an Intel CPU for the first time... That CPU would be my i5-760. When I first used it, I was just shocked, utterly shocked, like as if someone took the blindfold away from my eyes and I finally saw the light. Everything was just so much faster and more responsive, games ran better, applications opened faster, everything, literally everything was better.

When the AMD eight-cores came out, literally the week it was released, I decided to buy a new system to support one, the FX-8150, thinking it would wreck the i5-760 with its "eight-awesome-AMD-cores". So when I was so excited to test my new system, I realized how bad it was compared to my older i5-760... Everything was slower, games ran worse, applications loaded slower... I literally wasted almost a thousand dollars on an entirely new system.

To this day, I'm pretty upset and have vowed NEVER to buy an AMD CPU ever again. Second thing I learned was to do extensive research on any product before purchasing, especially if I'm spending a lot of money.

So yes... I hate AMD and I hope it dies in hellfire!

/endrantandlifestory

 

[swilli89]

Windows RT == full Windows on ARM; technically Windows RT is somewhere between standard and pro SKU feature-wise

Independent of the question if AMD survives or not, Microsoft had to go into this direction. ARM architecture is heavily attacking from below with fully synthesizable cores and low royalties.
In this regard AMD is more friend as they still embrace IA. ARM getting foothold in PC and Server market would be a disaster for Intel.

The more interesting question is, why Microsoft still has the signature enforcement for desktop programs in place for Windows RT.

No, Windows RT is a custom operating system that has more in common with Windows phone 8 that Microsofts x87 Windows 8. It had a custom skin on it that emulates what "full" Windows looks like

 

[AnandThenMan]

Does AMD have any hope against Intel?

No.

 

[Ryanrenesis]

No.

OMG. I can't believe Anand just replied to my thread. *faints*

P.S. Sign my mousepad please?

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

To be honest, I want AMD gone. The sooner the better.

When the AMD eight-cores came out, literally the week it was released, I decided to buy a new system to support one, the FX-8150, thinking it would wreck the i5-760 with its "eight-awesome-AMD-cores". So when I was so excited to test my new system, I realized how bad it was compared to my older i5-760... Everything was slower, games ran worse, applications loaded slower... I literally wasted almost a thousand dollars on an entirely new system.

First, the verbage you're using sounds full blown troll to me.

But if you were indeed serious, you really have no clue if you think everything is slower on an FX-8150 compared to an i5 760. The FX mops the floor in pretty much every task you can throw at it compared to the ancient i5 760. This is just nonsense ranting at it worst with no basis in reality. Its like comparing an Atom to an i7.

Synthetic Passmark Benchmarks:
i5 760 = 3925
FX 8150 = 7695

 

[AnandThenMan]

OMG. I can't believe Anand just replied to my thread. *faints*

P.S. Sign my mousepad please?

Uh, what?

 

[ShintaiDK]

The title could just as well have been "Does VIA....".

AMD will find its niche where it doesnt have to complete directly. And it seems they put the main effort into embedded.

And no, CPU prices wont rise beyond the normal inflation index if at all.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I don't know whether or not AMD has a future beyond this decade, but they don't necessarily need to compete head on against Intel in all segments.

There will be niches they can surely exploit, if they take the right approach.

This. AMD will not win against Intel in a head-on fight -- the R&D dollars just aren't there. However, there is good money to be made for AMD if it can tighten its focus and become the world's *best* vendor in something that Intel has no interest in.

I don't know why AMD hasn't turned its guns on NVIDIA and gone all-in to try to elevate Radeon. AMD's GPU technology is still good today, but if it keeps spreading its resources too thinly, it risks losing relevance there too.

AMD needs, above all else, focus.

 

[sm625]

The only hope for AMD is to invent something truly groundbreaking, like a cache SIMD operation, ie the ability to perform a SIMD operation on the entire cache at once, granting a massive boost in throughput for some operations. I dont know, something wild and off the wall like that. Doesnt seem too likely, but it is possible. Then, after they manage to pull off a feat like that, they have to successfully integrate it into their APU, which would grant such a huge graphical and compute performance advantage that everyone would be forced to switch to an AMD powered device.

What is more likely to happen is that companies like qualcomm or imagination technologies, which have a lot more resources, will eventually surpass all of aMD's designs in not just perf/watt, but absolute performance too.

Either way, I dont see intel as even beign their biggest problem. Intel is also in danger of being eaten by these very same companies. It is highly likely that then next generation of apple mobile processor will outperform broadwell at 4 watts. And these rest of apple's competition really never strays that far behind, which means they will all be surpassing intel. Meanwhile intel is still trying to hawk their chips for 10-20 times what all these guys are asking. That will not continue.

 

[Ryanrenesis]

You really have no clue if you think everything is slower on an FX-8150 compared to an i5 760. The FX mops the floor in pretty much every task you can throw at it. This is just nonsense ranting at it worst with no basis in reality. Its like comparing an Atom to an i7.

Synthetic Passmark Benchmarks:
i5 760 = 3925
FX 8150 = 7695

I'm telling you that benchmark scores does NOT translate to anything in reality.

Daily usage, browsing, and opening up applications = slower than my i5
Games = much worse, even stutters and just ridiculous frame dips than my i5

It was so bad I wanted to take a sledgehammer and smash it to pieces, video record it and send it to AMD to show them how upset I was. I ended up passing it to my mom in the end and taking back my i5-760 which I continued using until literally 2 days ago when I built my new system in my sig.

 

[chimaxi83]

Teenage troll is terrible.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I don't think it's a race to see who is the fastest. It's like an ecosystem, where Intel can be at the top, and AMD can be at the bottom.

Just because there is a shark, doesn't mean swordfish will die out - there is room for both, and Intel can charge big bucks for the fanciest CPU, and AMD can charge low bucks for the entry-level commodity (or non-gaming) computers.

No, see, the problem with that is that Intel has gone all-in at the low end. Bay Trail-M/D was just the first shot, and as I'm sure people here will agree with, Bay Trail wasn't exactly the world's best chip in graphics (AMD's Kabini and Beema were demonstrably superior in terms of raw performance). Even still, it managed to do some very serious damage to AMD's APU sales, and Intel did so with extremely robust margins on those parts.

What happens when Braswell shows up with much improved GPU performance, a tiny die size, and a bill of materials at a platform level tuned to be cheap as a result of the painful lesson Intel learned in trying to take Bay Trail into tablets? It'll just get worse, IMO.

AMD needs to be out of Intel's way. I think they can do it, but it'll take some tough decisions on the part of AMD's new CEO. Here's hoping, for the sake of AMD's stockholders and employees, that Su can chart a course to prosperity for the company.

 

[AnandThenMan]

To be honest, I want AMD gone. The sooner the better.

I have a huge vendetta against AMD.

Good thing Intel never made any bad products or you'd be ranting on about how you wish Intel was dead and gone.

I'm telling you that benchmark scores does NOT translate to anything in reality.

I have an FX system and a couple of Intel boxes the FX system doesn't feel slower at all, in fact it loves churning through heavy tasks. Not sure what you're talking about honestly.

 

[Ryanrenesis]

Teenage troll is terrible.

Some exaggeration for dramatic effect but true story. If you only used AMD CPUs all your life, then changed to Intel, you'd understand what I mean by "finally seeing the light".

Good thing Intel never made any bad products or you'd be ranting on about how you wish Intel was dead and gone.

Well if they had some bad ones, it seems I've never used one of them. Ever since my discovery of the sorcery we call Intel, I've always researched, read lots of reviews before purchasing anything, so it's unlikely I'll ever buy something bad from any manufacturer again.

 

[RampantAndroid]

No, Windows RT is a custom operating system that has more in common with Windows phone 8 that Microsofts x87 Windows 8. It had a custom skin on it that emulates what "full" Windows looks like

Win RT was full Windows on a tablet, that required desktop apps to be signed to run. But it was absolutely full Windows 8.

 

[Chicken76]

To be honest, I want AMD gone. The sooner the better.

I have a huge vendetta against AMD. You see... I had AMD CPUs all my life, my first PC had an Athlon K7... then came the x64 stuff I had that too... Then I upgraded to a Phenom triple-core then to a Phenom II quad, never used an Intel CPU before as I was a huge AMD fan boy.

Then... My life was about to change, I decided to give in and try an Intel CPU for the first time... That CPU would be my i5-760. When I first used it, I was just shocked, utterly shocked, like as if someone took the blindfold away from my eyes and I finally saw the light. Everything was just so much faster and more responsive, games ran better, applications opened faster, everything, literally everything was better.

When the AMD eight-cores came out, literally the week it was released, I decided to buy a new system to support one, the FX-8150, thinking it would wreck the i5-760 with its "eight-awesome-AMD-cores". So when I was so excited to test my new system, I realized how bad it was compared to my older i5-760... Everything was slower, games ran worse, applications loaded slower... I literally wasted almost a thousand dollars on an entirely new system.

To this day, I'm pretty upset and have vowed NEVER to buy an AMD CPU ever again. Second thing I learned was to do extensive research on any product before purchasing, especially if I'm spending a lot of money.

So yes... I hate AMD and I hope it dies in hellfire!

/endrantandlifestory

Well, I guess you don't remember buying expesive P4s and having to pay dearly for Rambus memory, only to see DDR match it's performance after a short while for a fraction of the cost. You also don't remember the time when if you didn't have a lot of money to put a system together, all Intel had to offer were Celerons. Oh dear P4-era Celerons, you have since enriched my vernacular with so many curse words...

 

[Arachnotronic]

Some exaggeration for dramatic effect but true story. If you only used AMD CPUs all your life, then changed to Intel, you'd understand what I mean by "finally seeing the light".



Well if they had some bad ones, it seems I've never used one of them. Ever since my discovery of the sorcery we call Intel, I've always researched, read lots of reviews before purchasing anything, so it's unlikely I'll ever buy something bad from any manufacturer again.

One word: Netburst. That architecture was bad in its first incarnation (Willamette), then it got pretty darn good in its second iteration (Northwood), only to become bad once again with Preshott...erm...Prescott.

Also, all Atom processors until Silvermont were underwhelming...to put it VERY kindly.