Does all soundcards have a DAC?

[vital]

Does the builtin Realtek AC97 audio have DAC? If I were to get an external USB DAC, would there be any sound improvements from speakers that use RCA inputs?

 

[WildW]

Maybe I'm being thick. . . but a digital to analog converter is basically what a soundcard is. . .right? Digital computer makes digital signals, your speakers are analog. . . a soundcard converts one to the other?

 

[corkyg]

Using the same speakers, it is unlikely that your ears will notice any difference.

 

[Chapbass]

Yep, unless you're using very good speakers (which in that case, getting a different soundcard out to a receiver or separates setup for that to do the DAC), probably not going to matter. spend it on new speakers, imo.

 

[pcgeek11]

Maybe I'm being thick. . . but a digital to analog converter is basically what a soundcard is. . .right? Digital computer makes digital signals, your speakers are analog. . . a soundcard converts one to the other?

What he said.

 

[postmortemIA]

What he said.

I think there's separate chip outside of main soundcard chip that does the conversion. Often DAC determines how good the whole solution is. And often 3rd party makes these converters. So probably most onboard solutions have very poor DACs due to cost cutting.

Even wikipedia agrees:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital-to-analog_converter

here's Head Fi forum page that explains parts of X-Fi sound card
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/hotrodding-x-fi-laymans-guide-no-56k-226975/

 

[0roo0roo]

lol, course op fails to mention speaker make.
as always happens.

 

[Ayah]

lol, course op fails to mention speaker make.
as always happens.

Don't forget that there are like 10 different models of Realtek audio chips in current generation boards and different implementations of the chip do it differently. And without knowing what kind of audio source quality, etc. etc. =\

 

[ViRGE]

I think there's separate chip outside of main soundcard chip that does the conversion. Often DAC determines how good the whole solution is. And often 3rd party makes these converters. So probably most onboard solutions have very poor DACs due to cost cutting.

Even wikipedia agrees:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital-to-analog_converter

here's Head Fi forum page that explains parts of X-Fi sound card
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/hotrodding-x-fi-laymans-guide-no-56k-226975/

That Head-Fi picture is actually really interesting; it does a good job pointing out where specific parts are, even if the Head-Fi guys are nuts.

Although sadly it's an almost-dated picture. The X-Fi is a (for lack of better terms) old-school design. It has a hardware DSP specifically for audio stream mixing and resampling, which is feed in to a DAC and then amplified. With on-board audio, you basically just have a DAC and amplification circuitry; all DSP functions have been moved in to the Windows audio stack.

 

[vital]

lol, course op fails to mention speaker make.
as always happens.

Well.. I don't really own anything decent at the moment and I'm just doing some research. For example, what if I get the Swans M200MKII speakers. Will there be any difference in playing through a Realtek 97 onboard audio, Creative X-FI, or using an external DAC, etc..

 

[0roo0roo]

its questionable. first thing to upgrade are speakers, not the sound card. better speakers= big jump in quality. better soundcard =marginal increase.

 

[oynaz]

External USB sound cards often have ADCs, used for recording, which are vastly superior to on-board sound cards. You will normally not be able to hear the difference between different DACs, used for playback, unless one of them are very expensive.

 

[Modelworks]

There are a couple things involved in the sound output. First is the codec. This is not the codec as in software you install to play media files. It is a circuit on the board that provides the information to the DAC . It takes whatever the cpu sends it as data and converts that into a digital stream for the DAC to output. This is what the older software based sound was based on and why it was slower. The cpu was used to convert the audio into a format the DAC can understand. Then the DAC would output the sound. All of the current sound cards use hardware codecs to convert sound for the DAC.

Chips like the realtek ones combine the codec and DAC in the same chip. It also handles control of mixing and inputs.

After the DAC outputs the sound you have an opamp that amplifies the output to line level speaker connectors. This is where most sound cards fail. Chips like the realtek have the opamp in the chip with the DAC to reduce cost. Integrated opamps are expensive to include if you want them to work well, so the ones inside the chips are mediocre. Higher end cards like the xifi put the opamp external to the DAC using parts from companies like burr brown where the single opamp chip can cost $8-10 . Good Opamp circuits also require split supplies like -12V and +12V supply to the chip for a 24 volt range. Something a pc doesn't supply so you need a power supply circuit to provide that, another cost addition.

Chips like the realtek are as good as any other if you get the output before it goes to the opamps. Unfortunately with the realtek chip and being integrated there is no way to do that except to use an external DAC. I use optical out with onboard and have found next to no difference in quality compared to higher end pro cards from maudio and emu . I looked at the signals on a scope and there was a difference but so minor nobody would hear it.

So if you want it to sound better you need to look for an external DAC either in a receiver or speakers with decoding built in.

 

[JackMDS]

Audio is a strange Bird.

Do you know that there is a specialty stores that sells Audio equipment that is based on Vacuum Tubes, and old Amps.

The claim is that some instrument (like classic Guitar) do not produce the correct auditory spectrum with other types of Audio components.

Many tourists come to New York and look for these few stores.

So OP, if classic guitar is on your mind, None of your computer's solution is an improvement.

As for current modern music, the only possible improvement is Volume at Zero. :sneaky:

 

[pcgeek11]

I think there's separate chip outside of main soundcard chip that does the conversion. Often DAC determines how good the whole solution is. And often 3rd party makes these converters. So probably most onboard solutions have very poor DACs due to cost cutting.

Even wikipedia agrees:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital-to-analog_converter

here's Head Fi forum page that explains parts of X-Fi sound card
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/hotrodding-x-fi-laymans-guide-no-56k-226975/

Understood, but a poor quality DAC is still a DAC.
Regardless of the quality.

 

[pcgeek11]

Audio is a strange Bird.

Do you know that there is a specialty stores that sells Audio equipment that is based on Vacuum Tubes, and old Amps.

The claim is that some instrument (like classic Guitar) do not produce the correct auditory spectrum with other types of Audio components.

Many tourists come to New York and look for these few stores.

So OP, if classic guitar is on your mind, None of your computer's solution is an improvement.

As for current modern music, the only possible improvement is Volume at Zero. :sneaky:

I cut my electronic teeth on Vacuum Tubes and yes a quality vacuum tube amplifier will produce a " More Accurate Reproduction of Sound " than most electronic methods of amplification.

pcgeek11