Does a circle look like an oval on a 19" LCD?

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Navid

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Navid

Originally posted by: kpb
It depends on the lcd. But typically as long as your running at the native res of the lcd then everything should be perfect. A square will be a square a circle will be a circle.

I'll use my monitor as an example since I know it off hand and it's really easy. It's a dell 2001 it's 16inchs wide and 12 inches tall lcd and runs at 1600x1200 resolution. Obviously at the native resolution everything is going to be perfectly square because it's 100 pixels per inch. Actually better than a monitor because there's no adjustments needed to set it correctly.

If your running at a different resolution and it's having to scale it up then it's possible things will look off.

The other possiblity was some older cheaper lcd weren't square so to speak. Thier pixel dimension didn't match thier physical dimensions. IE at 1600x1200 resolution but a panel that 16 inch by 10 inch. On that type of lcd things are pretty much never going to look right but you don't see that anymore even on cheap monitors.

I'm sorry but your monitor does not meet my concern! I was asking about a monitor whose native resolution was 1280x1024 (5x4 not 4x3 like yours).

No reason to get pissy here as he was just giving an exaple which you clearly missunderstood as he wasn't talking about 4:3 display but rather 16:10 one with non-squre pixels.

But as to your question, you have to be more specific. A circle on a webpage? Yeah, that will be round in just about any browser. A circle in a movie? That would depend on the program you use to view the movie in and unfortunatly many don't set the aspect ratio right for non-4:3 displays. A circle in a game? That just comes down to how the game works, some will set the aspect ratio proper for everything, some will squash the HUD but render the game right, and some squash everything.

So yeah, it isn't always going to be perfect, but for the most part you will be able to go without any aspect ratio issues. At worst, you'll just want to run 1280x960 with the tiny bit of letterboxing that comes with that for the few programs that don't work with 5:4 aspect ratios to your liking; but that should be rather rare. I use a 16:9 display which has far less support than a 5:4 display like you are considering and for the most part the stuff I use runs fullscreen on my display just fine.

I was not getting ***** at all. I tried to explain that my concern was about the aspect ratio of the screen, which for the example he mentioned I thought did not stand since his example had the same aspect ratio as the standard 4:3. I am thankful to anyone who has contributed to this thread helping me to understand. I would not be surprised if I misunderstood something. I asked the question, right? That means to begin with, I accepted that I did not know something.

I am considering getting a 19" monitor. I intend to run everything at the native resolution. Since the aspect ratio of the 19" LCD screen (5:4) is different from the standard (4:3), I was asking if this could cause any problems (whether one can notice it or not easily) for anything. I have to spend money and want to know all the limitations before I do that. I am not trying to have a troll war here.

I was referring to this, which I did not have access to at the time of posting so I did not include it.

I'm sorry but I'm not trying to have a troll war here!

But I did get a bit pissy there, noteable in the condescending "I'm sorry" along with the explanation point. Those same fetures is what led me to suggest calming down. and again I ask as you still don't understand the fact that that kpb was not talking about a standard 4:3 aspect ratio monitor. Nor do you undestand that I am not trying to help you here with all the information I provided which is quite relevant to your question, as if you did you surely would not have suggested I was trolling.

 

[Navid]

OK, nobody is trolling here. I was trying to say I was sorry if I pissed anybody! It seems like it worked the other way!
Anyway:

Does a 19" LCD have physical dimensions that are proportional to 5:4?

Can one observe a jpeg image that has a 4:3 aspect ratio on a monitor that has a physical 5:4 aspect ratio (on its 1280 in 1024 native resolution) without any black borders and without any distortion and without missing any portion of the image?

 

[jonnythan]

19" LCD's have square pixels with physical dimensions that are in a 5:4 proportion.

Anything rendered on a 1280x1024 screen at its native resolution will be geometrically correct. Anything that is 1024x768 being scaled to fit a 1280x1024 native resolution LCD will be slightly distorted.

The original programmer does not have to make allowances for screen ratios. The video card does the rendering and is (for purposes of this discussion) pixel-correct in its native resolution.

 

[GreyMittens]

Originally posted by: Navid
Can one observe a jpeg image that has a 4:3 aspect ratio on a monitor that has a physical 5:4 aspect ratio (on its 1280 in 1024 native resolution) without any black borders and without any distortion and without missing any portion of the image?

Yes, pr0n looks fine on a 19" lcd. Also, a circle looks like a circle, not an oval.

 

[Navid]

Originally posted by: jonnythan
19" LCD's have square pixels with physical dimensions that are in a 5:4 proportion.

Anything rendered on a 1280x1024 screen at its native resolution will be geometrically correct. Anything that is 1024x768 being scaled to fit a 1280x1024 native resolution LCD will be slightly distorted.

The original programmer does not have to make allowances for screen ratios. The video card does the rendering and is (for purposes of this discussion) pixel-correct in its native resolution.

OK, it sounds like I need to read up on how a graphics card renders.

 

[rbV5]

Does a 19" LCD have physical dimensions that are proportional to 5:4?

If it has a native 1280x1024 resolution, of course it does.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Navid
OK, nobody is trolling here. I was trying to say I was sorry if I pissed anybody! It seems like it worked the other way!
Anyway:

Does a 19" LCD have physical dimensions that are proportional to 5:4?

The panel does, yes.

Can one observe a jpeg image that has a 4:3 aspect ratio on a monitor that has a physical 5:4 aspect ratio (on its 1280 in 1024 native resolution) without any black borders and without any distortion and without missing any portion of the image?

No.

-----------------------------------

A circle does not have to look like an oval on a 19" LCD, no.

 

[Navid]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Can one observe a jpeg image that has a 4:3 aspect ratio on a monitor that has a physical 5:4 aspect ratio (on its 1280 in 1024 native resolution) without any black borders and without any distortion and without missing any portion of the image?

No.

xtknight, then why would anyone buy one?!!!!!!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Navid

Originally posted by: xtknight

Can one observe a jpeg image that has a 4:3 aspect ratio on a monitor that has a physical 5:4 aspect ratio (on its 1280 in 1024 native resolution) without any black borders and without any distortion and without missing any portion of the image?

No.

xtknight, then why would you buy one?!!!!!!

You can't view it on a CRT without any quality loss either... I assume you mean the image was 4:3, and you were trying to display it on a 5:4. You can not do that without distortion or black bars or zooming. Otherwise LCDs would be 'perfect'. But 1.33!=1.25, so it's impossible.

 

[Navid]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Navid

Originally posted by: xtknight

Can one observe a jpeg image that has a 4:3 aspect ratio on a monitor that has a physical 5:4 aspect ratio (on its 1280 in 1024 native resolution) without any black borders and without any distortion and without missing any portion of the image?

No.

xtknight, then why would you buy one?!!!!!!

You can't view it on a CRT without any quality loss either...

But, you can get a 20" LCD instead, which does not have this problem since its dimensions are standard.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Navid
But, you can get a 20" LCD instead, which does not have this problem since its dimensions are standard.

They are no more standard than a 19" LCD. I don't understand? Screw widescreen monitors too?

 

[rbV5]

quote:

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Can one observe a jpeg image that has a 4:3 aspect ratio on a monitor that has a physical 5:4 aspect ratio (on its 1280 in 1024 native resolution) without any black borders and without any distortion and without missing any portion of the image?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No.

Why would you expect it too, do the math for crying out loud:roll:

xtknight, then why would anyone buy one?!!!!!!

Because you could do like the rest of the world and view the image perfectly in any image application no matter what aspect ratio the display, or the image is in a friking window! Do you really think many users by different aspect ratio displays to display different aspect images, cmon use your head.

 

[CP5670]

I think you could say 4:3 was standard in the past, but these days most LCDs out there are 17/19" 5:4 displays and with the 8:5 widescreens becoming more popular, it's hard to say what a standard aspect ratio is anymore.

In my experience, games with only 1280x1024 as an option are much more common than games with only 1280x960, so you shouldn't have too much trouble with that. This can actually be seen even in games that came out when 4:3 CRTs were completely standard, like Descent 2 for example. I have no idea why 12x10 has gained acceptance over 12x9, but it's been like that long before 5:4 LCDs and just about any 4:3 CRT will list 12x10 in its standard resolutions list instead of 12x9. 5:4 LCDs were most likely made as such to support this resolution, not the other way around.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: CP5670
I think you could say 4:3 was standard in the past, but these days most LCDs out there are 17/19" 5:4 displays and with the 8:5 widescreens becoming more popular, it's hard to say what a standard aspect ratio is anymore.

In my experience, games with only 1280x1024 as an option are much more common than games with only 1280x960, so you shouldn't have too much trouble with that. This can actually be seen even in games that came out when 4:3 CRTs were completely standard, like Descent 2 for example. I have no idea why 12x10 has gained acceptance over 12x9, but it's been like that long before 5:4 LCDs and just about any 4:3 CRT will list 12x10 in its standard resolutions list instead of 12x9. 5:4 LCDs were most likely made as such to support this resolution, not the other way around.

Actually, this reminded me of one of the other reasons that 1280x1024 became a widely supported resolution in the pre-LCD days: You can (just) fit a 1280x1024x24-bit framebuffer into 4MB of RAM on a video card. If you're dealing with a video card that only has 4MB of RAM, this is the highest resolution you can run (unless you run something really nonstandard), and it's the highest resolution you can use double-buffering with on an 8MB card. This sort of thing was important back in the days of 1/2/4/8MB video cards.

I still don't really know why LCDs settled on this rather than using 1280x960 for 17/19" panels.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Does a 19" LCD have physical dimensions that are proportional to 5:4?

If it has a native 1280x1024 resolution, of course it does.

I can see why he was confused though:

Originally posted by: Navid
I was referring to this

Which says:

Resolution, Aspect Ratio: If you buy a 4:3 LCD, the resolution had better be 4:3 as well. That is, a 19" LCD should have an aspect ratio of 1600x1200, 1280x960, or some derivative thereof. Most 19" and 17" LCDs have an aspect ratio of 5:4 (1280x1024). This is OK, but you're looking at a 5:4 signal crammed in a 4:3 box. Our Dell 2001FP, on the other hand, measures exactly 16" by 12" and runs at a resolution of 1600x1200. Generally, a skew aspect ratio is not enough to notice, but if you do any sort of graphic work, all of your circles will look like ovals. This goes the same for widescreen LCDs - buy a widescreen LCD with a widescreen resolution; a 30" wide format LCD with a resolution of 1024x768 will not look correct no matter what you do to the signal.

I'm not sure where Kristopher shopped for his monitors, or if his mesuring stick was broken or whatever, but that whole rant seems rather off base in reguard to every 1280x1024 LCD I have ever seen.

 

[Keeir]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Which says:

Resolution, Aspect Ratio: If you buy a 4:3 LCD

I'm not sure where Kristopher shopped for his monitors, or if his mesuring stick was broken or whatever, but that whole rant seems rather off base in reguard to every 1280x1024 LCD I have ever seen.

I think what Kristopher was saying is that IF you have a 4:3 LCD, then displaying another AR on it won't work. I've never really seen a 4:3 19" either...

Pretty much we can all agree, the Display will display a Circle if it is feed a circle in the same AR

IE, the Graphic Card 5:4--->Monitor 5:4
Graphic Card 4:3--->Monitor 4:3
Graphic Card 16:10-->etc

And an Oval when a circle of not correct is feed in

Graphic Card 4:3 ---> Monitor 5:4
Graphic Card 5:4 --->Monitor 4:3
etc

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Keeir

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Which says:

Resolution, Aspect Ratio: If you buy a 4:3 LCD

I'm not sure where Kristopher shopped for his monitors, or if his mesuring stick was broken or whatever, but that whole rant seems rather off base in reguard to every 1280x1024 LCD I have ever seen.

I think what Kristopher was saying is that IF you have a 4:3 LCD, then displaying another AR on it won't work. I've never really seen a 4:3 19" either...

Pretty much we can all agree, the Display will display a Circle if it is feed a circle in the same AR

IE, the Graphic Card 5:4--->Monitor 5:4
Graphic Card 4:3--->Monitor 4:3
Graphic Card 16:10-->etc

And an Oval when a circle of not correct is feed in

Graphic Card 4:3 ---> Monitor 5:4
Graphic Card 5:4 --->Monitor 4:3
etc

Only if the monitor is scaling the feed to fill the entire screen. Most LCD monitors can display lower-resolution signals in a "1:1" mode that fills the unused pixels with black and maintains the correct AR of the image.

However, you're then looking at a smaller image, but it maintains its sharpness and AR. There's always some sort of compromise when the source and display have different ARs.

 

[kylebisme]

To clarify, Kristopher said:

Most 19" and 17" LCDs have an aspect ratio of 5:4 (1280x1024). This is OK, but you're looking at a 5:4 signal crammed in a 4:3 box.

When, a least all the 19" and 17" 1280x1024 LCDs have ever seen are quite clearly 5:4 displays and hence there isn't much worry if any of all of having to deal with anything getting crammed into a 4:3 box on them.

 

[jonnythan]

We have a ton of 19" and 17" LCD's in my office. They all have physical dimensions of 5:4 and all run at 1280x1024.

In other news I just discovered a new resolution of 1360x1024 in my latest graphics drivers that looks pretty damn nice on my 19" CRT...

 

[otispunkmeyer]

i took a pic of my zalman heatsink....the 7000cu

camera obvious works in 4:3

when i set the picture as desktop background it appeard to be slightly stretched top to bottom, making it look eliptical

 

[yhelothar]

If you set it to 1280x960 and stretched it out onto your 5:4 monitor, then it'll turn to an oval.
This is why widescreen monitors don't distort anything.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
If you set it to 1280x960 and stretched it out onto your 5:4 monitor, then it'll turn to an oval.
This is why widescreen monitors don't distort anything.

That doesn't make any sense at all. I am sure you just didn't elaborate enough on that... Please clarify.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
To clarify, Kristopher said:

Most 19" and 17" LCDs have an aspect ratio of 5:4 (1280x1024). This is OK, but you're looking at a 5:4 signal crammed in a 4:3 box.

When, a least all the 19" and 17" 1280x1024 LCDs have ever seen are quite clearly 5:4 displays and hence there isn't much worry if any of all of having to deal with anything getting crammed into a 4:3 box on them.

In fact I've never seen an LCD that had an incorrect aspect ratio for its native resolution, I haven't got a clue what Kristopher is trying to say, it has got to be a mispeak or misprint because he is wrong.

The only thing I've seen even remotely close is that my Viewsonic LCD TV has a native 1280x720 resolution, yet states 1280x1024 as the optimal PC resolution, which is incorrect in the actual use...its optimal at the native 1280x720 regardless if its connected to a STB or PC.