Documentary on Chinese Gold Farmers in WoW

[Fingolfin269]

I think one way WoW could help reduce this problem would be to institute non-epic servers for the more casual player. That would alleviate any problem I have with the game and would possibly reduce the effect of gold farming.

 

[fishbits]

I think one way WoW could help reduce this problem would be to institute non-epic servers for the more casual player. That would alleviate any problem I have with the game and would possibly reduce the effect of gold farming.

Not bad, but I think Blizzard's fear is that without the availability of epics, level-capped players would have less to shoot for and wander away from the game.

They've done well with the rested xp system, maybe something like that could be used for loot, or it's opposite. If you're not rested to a certain point, you get less gold/item rarity out of drops (some sort of multiple applied to the loot tables). In a group/raid setting, guess it would have to be the average of everyone's multiples or some such.

It's kinda sad where the perception (and maybe the reality) is that WoW players aren't happy or having fun unless they're level-capped and geared-up. In addition to your idea of a non-epic server, I'd love to see (at least as an outside observer) what WoW'd be like on a server without the BoP mechanic, and with destroyable/lootable gear.

 

[TGS]

It's the silly notion that when you are done with a piece of equipment it becomes destroyed that drives the demand for farming for items. If you were able to sell your gear after you had finished using it and moved to better things, the market for farming items would virtually disappear.

It would be a tangible benefit to being in a guild or group of friends as well. As there is not real purpose of being guilded. Other than to talk to people via /g. Although most guilds use a VOIP program of some sorts anyway...

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: TGS
It's the silly notion that when you are done with a piece of equipment it becomes destroyed that drives the demand for farming for items. If you were able to sell your gear after you had finished using it and moved to better things, the market for farming items would virtually disappear.

It would be a tangible benefit to being in a guild or group of friends as well. As there is not real purpose of being guilded. Other than to talk to people via /g. Although most guilds use a VOIP program of some sorts anyway...

EQ had a bustling economy based on tradeable gear, and it's where this gold/plat farming business all got started. I remember my first experience with them; I went to sebilis on my shaman to farm some gems at the uh.. the camp with the necrosis scarab (now this is bugging me - what was that camp called?) and found a priest & enchanter duoing it who didn't speak much English. Camped something else for a while, logged, came back later, they're still there. Next day, still there. Etc. I didn't realize it was part of a large operation to supply the retards with plat until commenting on it in the serverwide shaman channel and learning it was happening on all servers, not just mine.

I guess nothing is safe from the morons of the world, I'm just glad I experienced a great MMORPG before the parasites ruined the genre. There's no way to prevent it other than for people to not be idiotic gold buyers, but the world's getting dumber, not smarter, so this isn't going to happen.

 

[fs5]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Yeah, ML is the fastest and most convenient loot system. Those "Need" and "Greed" buttons are close enough together that accidents can, and do happen. Then you have people acccidently looting, not realizing that one or more member has died and is out of the instance, making a run back. You know what happens then? Often times, he's off the loot table and is ineligble for the roll.

Then you have DKP to deal with on major runs. The ML has the list of DKP so he can fairly distribute loot. I mean, if I "think" I have enough points and roll need, but then I soon realize that I'm short or I don't need the item, or I already got my one blue this run, there are no mechanisms in-game on a rolling system to prevent that once I hit that button. I've just unintentially screwed the rightful winner out of his loot.

With Master Loot, the ML can check his list and tell eveyone who can roll, or ignore rolls that don't count. Convenience comes from having one member who wants to deal with loot and all its associated issues, rather than having each and every raid member be on top of it at all times. Having him pick up bijous, coins, and other BoPs, and distributing them at the end of the run makes things go a *lot* faster than having to distribute them on the fly, after each and every pull.

*shrug* Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

Actually for guild runs with DKP the loot is FFA for BWL/MC/Ony. Nobody touches the body until everybody sees the loot, then bid. This way if the ML gets disconnected everybody else can still loot. For PUGs / non all guild regular instances it's group loot.

 

[fs5]

Originally posted by: Looney
Um, then you're an idiot for inviting a known gold farmer into a raid...

Um.. no, I was saying I won't invite known gold farmers to raids. The times it has happened I was not leader and I did not find out the ninjaer was a known gold farmer.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: fs5

Originally posted by: Looney
Um, then you're an idiot for inviting a known gold farmer into a raid...

Um.. no, I was saying I won't invite known gold farmers to raids. The times it has happened I was not leader and I did not find out the ninjaer was a known gold farmer.

Yeah, they're a dime a dozen and impossible to avoid... you even play WoW looney?

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: fs5

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Yeah, ML is the fastest and most convenient loot system. Those "Need" and "Greed" buttons are close enough together that accidents can, and do happen. Then you have people acccidently looting, not realizing that one or more member has died and is out of the instance, making a run back. You know what happens then? Often times, he's off the loot table and is ineligble for the roll.

Then you have DKP to deal with on major runs. The ML has the list of DKP so he can fairly distribute loot. I mean, if I "think" I have enough points and roll need, but then I soon realize that I'm short or I don't need the item, or I already got my one blue this run, there are no mechanisms in-game on a rolling system to prevent that once I hit that button. I've just unintentially screwed the rightful winner out of his loot.

With Master Loot, the ML can check his list and tell eveyone who can roll, or ignore rolls that don't count. Convenience comes from having one member who wants to deal with loot and all its associated issues, rather than having each and every raid member be on top of it at all times. Having him pick up bijous, coins, and other BoPs, and distributing them at the end of the run makes things go a *lot* faster than having to distribute them on the fly, after each and every pull.

*shrug* Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

Actually for guild runs with DKP the loot is FFA for BWL/MC/Ony. Nobody touches the body until everybody sees the loot, then bid. This way if the ML gets disconnected everybody else can still loot. For PUGs / non all guild regular instances it's group loot.

To me, that just seems unnecessarily slow. That means after each and every kill, you have a loot distribution round with ~40 members.

But like I said, everyone has a different play style. I was just offering up a potential solution to your stated problem. What I don't understand is if your system works so well, why are you complaining about chinese farmers stealing your loot?

 

[fs5]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
To me, that just seems unnecessarily slow. That means after each and every kill, you have a loot distribution round with ~40 members.

But like I said, everyone has a different play style. I was just offering up a potential solution to your stated problem. What I don't understand is if your system works so well, why are you complaining about chinese farmers stealing your loot?

We have DKP with bidding. The 'loot' distrubtion round is nesscary for people that bid.
It works well because the above system is for GUILD runs. PUG runs are different, and if you join a pug run sometimes you'll get a gold farmer in the mix unbeknownest. read the thread please.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: fs5

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
To me, that just seems unnecessarily slow. That means after each and every kill, you have a loot distribution round with ~40 members.

But like I said, everyone has a different play style. I was just offering up a potential solution to your stated problem. What I don't understand is if your system works so well, why are you complaining about chinese farmers stealing your loot?

We have DKP with bidding. The 'loot' distrubtion round is nesscary for people that bid.
It works well because the above system is for GUILD runs. PUG runs are different, and if you join a pug run sometimes you'll get a gold farmer in the mix unbeknownest. read the thread please.

Wow, we've come full circle and you're telling me to read the thread? :laugh:

Let me give you the cliffs again::

OP: Here's something about Chinese gold farmers.
fs5: I hate it when gold farmers get in our PUGs and steal loot.
me: Having a Master Looter will solve that problem.
fs5: No one on our server likes ML.
me: OK, but it's really a superior method and defeats gold farmers.
fs5: ML sucks, we're not using it.
me: It doesn't suck, we use it with no problems and find it work well.
fs5: Our guild uses DKP, too. But sometimes gold farmers in PUGs roll on our stuff and we don't know a solution for that. Read the thread, please.
me: Uhh..


Please, tell me what I'm missing here. You are complaining that gold farmers are stealing your loot when you use Group Loot in PUGs. I suggest you switch to Master Looter to stop this. Why all the confusion?

 

[0roo0roo]

just more proof how stupid these games are to begin with. atleast with counterstrike u can't pay someone to aim for u lol

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
just more proof how stupid these games are to begin with. atleast with counterstrike u can't pay someone to aim for u lol

The games themselves have the potential to be great, far better than any FPS could ever hope for. It's the 5-10% of the players who have severe brain damage and buy game money, and the industry which has cropped up to supply the retards, which has ruined the genre. Regardless, they're still better than multiplayer FPS. For that matter, single player FPS is better than multiplayer FPS, but I digress.

 

[AdamSnow]

Like mentioned, it's the people who buy gold off eBay that are the problem.

 

[TGS]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
just more proof how stupid these games are to begin with. atleast with counterstrike u can't pay someone to aim for u lol

And like I mentioned... aimbots and wallhacks. Though the farming business in WoW is ridiculous. Prior to the big crack down, you had the squads of farmers going around teleporting to nodes only to sell you the goods at a huge mark up over the normal market costs.

For MMOs they need to implement a player reputation aspect. So when someone is "farming" an area the organization they are fighting pulls out all the stops and sends in a counter squad to deal with them. It would encourage people to move aorund the MMO world, and not penalize those who are just grinding. At least for WoW rep, it's not exactly a fast process to gain or lose standing.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
just more proof how stupid these games are to begin with. atleast with counterstrike u can't pay someone to aim for u lol

You were severely beaten and humiliated by a group of D&D players as a kid, weren't you? :laugh:

 

[fs5]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Let me give you the cliffs again::

OP: Here's something about Chinese gold farmers.
fs5: I hate it when gold farmers get in our PUGs and steal loot.
me: Having a Master Looter will solve that problem.
fs5: No one on our server likes ML.
me: OK, but it's really a superior method and defeats gold farmers.
fs5: ML sucks, we're not using it.
me: It doesn't suck, we use it with no problems and find it work well.
fs5: Our guild uses DKP, too. But sometimes gold farmers in PUGs roll on our stuff and we don't know a solution for that. Read the thread, please.
me: Uhh..

Please, tell me what I'm missing here. You are complaining that gold farmers are stealing your loot when you use Group Loot in PUGs. I suggest you switch to Master Looter to stop this. Why all the confusion?

1) I am talking about PUG runs when people steal the loot
2) We have no problems with guild runs and FFA.
3) for PUG runs everybody on the server uses group loot. If you switch the loot to ML people complain. Not to mention if the ML person gets disconnected.... ML is not the solution on our server therefore your suggestion of switching to ML would not work for our server.

I've played on 2 different servers, dragonmaw and tich. On Dragonmaw people use group loot/ML. On Tich people use Group Loot only.

Now was that so hard?

 

[abaez]

Major Mana pots on our server have gone down to 3gold for 5, nice little windfall for us!

I will admit I've bought gold. Probably 1,000 over the last year. The way I see it is that I spent about 2-3 hours of my pay to save many many hours of gold farming in the game, and then I can focus on having the fun and spending the time beating the encounters in bwl/aq. Besides, 1,000g is what.. one week of bringing a lunch from home in or not going to starbucks? Not a big sacrifice.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: abaez
Major Mana pots on our server have gone down to 3gold for 5, nice little windfall for us!

I will admit I've bought gold. Probably 1,000 over the last year. The way I see it is that I spent about 2-3 hours of my pay to save many many hours of gold farming in the game, and then I can focus on having the fun and spending the time beating the encounters in bwl/aq. Besides, 1,000g is what.. one week of bringing a lunch from home in or not going to starbucks? Not a big sacrifice.

Yeah, you've only helped to ruin the entire genre, what's the big deal?

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: abaez
Major Mana pots on our server have gone down to 3gold for 5, nice little windfall for us!

I will admit I've bought gold. Probably 1,000 over the last year. The way I see it is that I spent about 2-3 hours of my pay to save many many hours of gold farming in the game, and then I can focus on having the fun and spending the time beating the encounters in bwl/aq. Besides, 1,000g is what.. one week of bringing a lunch from home in or not going to starbucks? Not a big sacrifice.

I agree with you. I know people that really love the raiding/pvp aspect of the game but just don't have the time because of work, family, etc. to spend their nights and weekends farming for gold. So they buy the gold and spend their time doing the stuff they really like to do in the game. It makes sense from an opportunity cost standpoint. Most of these guys with real jobs can do half day's worth of overtime on the weekend and earn enough money to buy several thousand gold.

And for those of you claiming that farming causes inflation, remember there are two sides to the supply/demand equation. Most farmers aren't making money from the actual cash drops off of mobs, they do it by farming and selling trade goods and BoE blues and purples. The expanded gold supply is accompanied by a flood of cheap trade goods in the AH. The overall effect on prices has been negligible on my server. The WoW economy does not operate in a vacuum.

Finally, remember that all of the best gear in the game is still BoP. There's no way to bypass the high level content if you want good gear.

 

[fishbits]

Playing Devil's advocate here, but if the farmer weren't farming the gold, wouldn't the buyer be doing the same? And wouldn't better world design help combat clusters of farmers, when opportunities for good loot are more evenly distributed? Now the big question: How many people who have dismissed the gold buyers as "not wanting to play the game" have given gold to lowbie alts and friends? Did you scold yourself or your friends at the time about how they were "ruining the game" just because you were able to get gold more efficiently than they?

I haven't bought gold or the equivalent in any game, but the idea is intriguing from many angles. I really don't care what other players have as long as they're not using exploits to get it and the game experience isn't hosed by this latest iteration of spawn-camping.

 

[abaez]

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: abaez
Major Mana pots on our server have gone down to 3gold for 5, nice little windfall for us!

I will admit I've bought gold. Probably 1,000 over the last year. The way I see it is that I spent about 2-3 hours of my pay to save many many hours of gold farming in the game, and then I can focus on having the fun and spending the time beating the encounters in bwl/aq. Besides, 1,000g is what.. one week of bringing a lunch from home in or not going to starbucks? Not a big sacrifice.

Yeah, you've only helped to ruin the entire genre, what's the big deal?

Riiiiiiiight. Me spending $40 for 1,000 gold, a miniscule amount, in a game where millions of gold is created daily ruined the entire mmorpg genre for the world. Go ahead and farm 3 hours for your 50 gold, I'll be in ahn'qiraj.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: abaez

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: abaez
Major Mana pots on our server have gone down to 3gold for 5, nice little windfall for us!

I will admit I've bought gold. Probably 1,000 over the last year. The way I see it is that I spent about 2-3 hours of my pay to save many many hours of gold farming in the game, and then I can focus on having the fun and spending the time beating the encounters in bwl/aq. Besides, 1,000g is what.. one week of bringing a lunch from home in or not going to starbucks? Not a big sacrifice.

Yeah, you've only helped to ruin the entire genre, what's the big deal?

Riiiiiiiight. Me spending $40 for 1,000 gold, a miniscule amount, in a game where millions of gold is created daily ruined the entire mmorpg genre for the world. Go ahead and farm 3 hours for your 50 gold, I'll be in ahn'qiraj.

Heh, I figured you'd come back with a rationalization. Amusingly, this is even easier to refute. You're one of tens of thousands whose stupidity, in concert, has in large part ruined the genre. Much like one car or truck doesn't create much polution, but LA is covered in smog... Much like each person only gets one vote, but we manage to elect a leader for 300 million people.

Funny, I'm doing end-game content too. I tend not to farm; when my funds get a little low I just spend a few minutes at the AH, make some smart buys and sell them at marked up prices to morons who have no clue of gold's worth due to having bought theirs :laugh:

Honestly I don't even understand what you need the money for; there are no buyable upgrades for you, and consumables & repairs have a very minimal cost associated with them. You'd be hard pressed NOT to have the dough for the occasional enchant or libram quest, etc., just from playing the game. It's like you're being stupid simply for the sake of being stupid.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: fs5

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Let me give you the cliffs again::

OP: Here's something about Chinese gold farmers.
fs5: I hate it when gold farmers get in our PUGs and steal loot.
me: Having a Master Looter will solve that problem.
fs5: No one on our server likes ML.
me: OK, but it's really a superior method and defeats gold farmers.
fs5: ML sucks, we're not using it.
me: It doesn't suck, we use it with no problems and find it work well.
fs5: Our guild uses DKP, too. But sometimes gold farmers in PUGs roll on our stuff and we don't know a solution for that. Read the thread, please.
me: Uhh..

Please, tell me what I'm missing here. You are complaining that gold farmers are stealing your loot when you use Group Loot in PUGs. I suggest you switch to Master Looter to stop this. Why all the confusion?

1) I am talking about PUG runs when people steal the loot
2) We have no problems with guild runs and FFA.
3) for PUG runs everybody on the server uses group loot. If you switch the loot to ML people complain. Not to mention if the ML person gets disconnected.... ML is not the solution on our server therefore your suggestion of switching to ML would not work for our server.

I've played on 2 different servers, dragonmaw and tich. On Dragonmaw people use group loot/ML. On Tich people use Group Loot only.

Now was that so hard?

*shrug* Like I said, different strokes. I guess I should commend your server's entire community for coming together, breaking down barriers, working together, and unanimously deciding on a consistent, universal, yet obviously stupid, decision. :laugh:

I mean, that's akin to going to the doctor to complain of a headache, and when he suggests that you stop hitting yourself in the head with that ballpeen hammer, you laugh at him and tell him "No, my family doesn't like not hitting ourselves with hammers. Now are you going to help my headache or not!?"

I guess my only other "solution" to your problem is to just learn to enjoy losing your loot to gold farmers.

 

[TGS]

Originally posted by: abaez
Major Mana pots on our server have gone down to 3gold for 5, nice little windfall for us!

I will admit I've bought gold. Probably 1,000 over the last year. The way I see it is that I spent about 2-3 hours of my pay to save many many hours of gold farming in the game, and then I can focus on having the fun and spending the time beating the encounters in bwl/aq. Besides, 1,000g is what.. one week of bringing a lunch from home in or not going to starbucks? Not a big sacrifice.

If you look at the cost of blues and epics on a "low" pop/new(ish) server without the heavy farmer hooks, you'll notice they are 4-5x cheaper. Pots? That's just more people in that level range to actually sell the mats or figuring out the high end pots are always in demand, and they have to resort to price wars to sell their goods.

Rares and epics, why are they so much cheaper? It's not that the drop rate increases for a farmer...it's the gold is worth less to the server as the farmers can sell joe blow 1000 gold and raise the prices through the roof, thereby getting the gold back. Find another nice rare or epic and rinse and repeat. The only reason people will actually pay ridiculous amounts of in-game gold, is that people don't care about dropping fourty bucks to get the gold. Once you ebay gold, you've already been scammed by the very same people who are selling those items. On my server there are the high visibility farmers who buyout the decent gear and resale at 3-4x the price. I see that stuff get sold all the time, only because people buy the gold from his buddy. How else are the farmers able to afford practically 70%+ of all rares and epics from the AH? I know a single person could never pull that kind of in game coin. It's one big in-game scam, and most people that buy the gold don't see that fact. Nor do they seem to care.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: fishbits

I think one way WoW could help reduce this problem would be to institute non-epic servers for the more casual player. That would alleviate any problem I have with the game and would possibly reduce the effect of gold farming.

Not bad, but I think Blizzard's fear is that without the availability of epics, level-capped players would have less to shoot for and wander away from the game.

They've done well with the rested xp system, maybe something like that could be used for loot, or it's opposite. If you're not rested to a certain point, you get less gold/item rarity out of drops (some sort of multiple applied to the loot tables). In a group/raid setting, guess it would have to be the average of everyone's multiples or some such.

It's kinda sad where the perception (and maybe the reality) is that WoW players aren't happy or having fun unless they're level-capped and geared-up. In addition to your idea of a non-epic server, I'd love to see (at least as an outside observer) what WoW'd be like on a server without the BoP mechanic, and with destroyable/lootable gear.

Yup, the rested xp system is still nice for the casual player but it still will not allow them to compete with pimped out epic-geared hardcore gamers in the battlegrounds. That's why I want a non-epic server. I want to be able to pvp based on skill and not on who has more time to gear up. I already canceled my sub due to this issue so it kind of works against their idea of 'more content = more subs'. A non-epic server or two would equal at least two more subs I can guarantee you that.