Documentary "Jesus Camp"

[child of wonder]

Originally posted by: straightalker

Originally posted by: child of wonder
Actually, Christianity has a long history of violence. Unless someone requests a history lesson, I don't think I need to expound on the Crusades, Dark Ages, Inquisition, Witch Hunts, etc.

Even today violence perpetuated by Christianity is all around us:

The refusal to allow any sort of contraceptives in Africa which brings millions of children into this world only to die of starvation and disease
Bombing of abortion clinics
Untold war casualties in Iraq of which the people in the Middle East see as the Christian West attacking Islam.
Women being denied the morning after pill or birth control by religious pharmacists
Christian leaders passing no exception abortion bans, such as in SD, which forces rape and incest victims or women whose life is in danger due to the pregnancy to carry babies to term.
The torture of the body of Terri Schiavo by dragging her life through the media simply to serve as a rallying cry to rile up the conservative base

Violence comes in many forms, not all of them as obvious as someone blowing themselves up.

Actual Christians are never given an imaginary order in their head to do the things you have just described. Did the 12 Apostles organize themselves into an army and march against Rome?

Don't confuse the label "christian" with the real thing and you can avoid much of your obvious hatreds. Look at the load of corrupt politicians in Wash. D.C. who call themselves loyal Americans. Are they what they say they are?

I fail to see how you espoused my "hatreds" from my post that matter of factly pointed out that Christianity has a history of violence and that some of their modern day practices may not be directly physically violent, but are "violent" nonetheless.

Muslims don't have a voice in their head that commands them to blow themselves up either. They have zealous and charismatic leaders who put that idea into their head and promise eternal paradise and salvation if people follow their directives. They use a holy book to back up these claims.

The Bible is also filled with violence and murder both in the name of and directly condoned by God. I can post a few if you'd like.

 

[Ferocious]

'worshipping a picture of Bush'

WTF?

When I read that I thought of the Hitler youth camps.

it's that kind of lunacy that allowed the likes of Hitler to rise to power.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Ferocious
'worshipping a picture of Bush'

WTF?

When I read that I thought of the Hitler youth camps.

it's that kind of lunacy that allowed the likes of Hitler to rise to power.

They were not "worshipping" a photo of Bush. They were praying for him, huge difference. Although some of you might not know that.

 

[ProfJohn]

From Variety.com

"Jesus Camp," from documakers Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady ("Boys of Baraka"), may shock many viewers, especially political liberals, when it shows children speaking in tongues, their faces glowing with ecstasy and tears running down their cheeks. Liberals might also be alarmed by images of 7-year-olds in camouflage face-paint performing spiritual war dances at summer camp and little hands reaching out to bless a cardboard cut-out of President George W. Bush in the hope of cinching a pro-life Supreme Court appointment. A&E Indie Films production could rouse brisk theatrical interest before hitting TV.

Looks at this thread, well that got that one right.

 

[spunkz]

somehow more eyebrows are raised over Jesus camp than this one

 

[sandorski]

It all starts somewhere. Wanting to be just as dedicated as those dedicated for dying to Allah, in light of recent events, is spooky to say the least. Doesn't necessarily mean their intentions are the same, but who knows. It certainly can end up that way.

ProfJohn is probably correct, they probably were just praying for Bush, but using a picture to do it is also kinda weird. Most Christians I know are perfectly capable of praying for someone without the use of likelnesses of that person. I wonder if children are caable of making the distinction.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: spunkz
somehow more eyebrows are raised over Jesus camp than this one

I doubt it.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Ferocious
'worshipping a picture of Bush'

WTF?

When I read that I thought of the Hitler youth camps.

it's that kind of lunacy that allowed the likes of Hitler to rise to power.

They were not "worshipping" a photo of Bush. They were praying for him, huge difference. Although some of you might not know that.

Look, we have a graduate of the camp in our midst Sorry friend, Bush and God don't go together. If they were real Christians, they would be praying for Saddam or Bin Laden, too. Where were their photos. Obtuse FTL.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
I love how GenX is defending their right to religious freedom in this context, but God forbid if these were radical Muslim camps or what not.

There are radical muslim schools right here in the United States and you dont see me wanting to have them shut down do you? But ask umbrella what we should do with them.

Like this? Prove it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Saudi_Academy

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Agent11

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
There is a HUGE difference between these kids and the muslim terrorists...

Yes, the continent they live on and the color of their skin. Short of that, no difference in what they are being brainwashed into believing.

Ill await the next swath of Chritian terrorist bombings killing thousands of people a year.

Until then, your comparison is invalid, try again.

Timothy McVeigh , Try again.

I was raised a very strict christian.. and lets be honest, I was brainwashed.
They are attempting to brainwash these kids.
I'm Agnostic now, If you where born to a muslim family you would be muslim. Religion is a random act of birth.
To say that one faith has 'the truth' is not logical.. Why would god not tell us all 'this is what I expect of you' and allow us to make a decision, rather than blunder along.. I can guarantee you most people will follow the religion of their parents if they believe strongly, not out of holy spirit or deep spiritual knowledge but respect and love for their family.

And I do not believe that it is right to do this to your children.. lead by example and teach good morals then let them decide when they are old enough to understand what they are doing..
A realisation that they where spoon fed crap from an early age can be damaging to a person.

'worshipping a picture of President Bush'
If you are a christian, this should make you want to take your kids as far away from that camp as is possible.
Wheres your 10 commandments now eh?

And I would challenge any christian that is so pro the shrub to tell me exactly how does his policy reflect 'Christian' ideals and beliefs??
If you want to compare scripture I warn you, I was a preachers son.

Timothy McVeigh did not kill in the name of God, he killed because he hated the US govt.
And you will note the alledged Islamic ties McVeigh may have had when he supposedly visited some people in the Philipines.

Try again.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
I love how GenX is defending their right to religious freedom in this context, but God forbid if these were radical Muslim camps or what not.

There are radical muslim schools right here in the United States and you dont see me wanting to have them shut down do you? But ask umbrella what we should do with them.

Like this? Prove it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Saudi_Academy

Good to know. Do you see the extreme similarities between the 2?

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Ferocious
'worshipping a picture of Bush'

WTF?

When I read that I thought of the Hitler youth camps.

it's that kind of lunacy that allowed the likes of Hitler to rise to power.

They were not "worshipping" a photo of Bush. They were praying for him, huge difference. Although some of you might not know that.

Look, we have a graduate of the camp in our midst Sorry friend, Bush and God don't go together. If they were real Christians, they would be praying for Saddam or Bin Laden, too. Where were their photos. Obtuse FTL.

umbrella, I was pointing out a mischaracterization in the article. They are not "worshipping" Bush, they holding up a picture of him and praying for him to make the right decisions and such. I am sure you know that Christians, even crazy ones who go to Jesus Camps, do not believe in worshipping any one or thing besides God.

Based on he level of ignorance that exists in non-Christians and a lack of understand of the Christian belief I do not find it hard to see how someone would see the kids praying while a picture of Bush is held and think that they are worshipping him.

And who will not be disturbed by the image of 7-year-olds in painted faces, performing spiritual war dances at summer camp and little hands reaching out to bless a cardboard cutout of President Bush, praying for his new Supreme Court appointments.

BTW: When Clinton got busted for the whole Monica thing didn?t he seek spiritual healing and didn?t some churches ?pray? for him? Does that mean said churches were ?worshipping? him, or just following the age old tradition of praying for someone in their time of need?

 

[Estrella]

ok, it all boils down to this:

religions are often times great for giving society a moral structure through allegory. (the radicals usually twist them, misinterpret them or w/e)
religions are bad when it comes to describing the natural world. various holy books were written by HUMANS with little or no empirical reasoning
the history of man is fraught with power struggles and religious warfare.
humans eventually began to realize that truth was something to be observed and verified rather than dictated.

go!

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Ferocious
'worshipping a picture of Bush'

WTF?

When I read that I thought of the Hitler youth camps.

it's that kind of lunacy that allowed the likes of Hitler to rise to power.

They were not "worshipping" a photo of Bush. They were praying for him, huge difference. Although some of you might not know that.

Look, we have a graduate of the camp in our midst Sorry friend, Bush and God don't go together. If they were real Christians, they would be praying for Saddam or Bin Laden, too. Where were their photos. Obtuse FTL.

umbrella, I was pointing out a mischaracterization in the article. They are not "worshipping" Bush, they holding up a picture of him and praying for him to make the right decisions and such. I am sure you know that Christians, even crazy ones who go to Jesus Camps, do not believe in worshipping any one or thing besides God.

Based on he level of ignorance that exists in non-Christians and a lack of understand of the Christian belief I do not find it hard to see how someone would see the kids praying while a picture of Bush is held and think that they are worshipping him.

And who will not be disturbed by the image of 7-year-olds in painted faces, performing spiritual war dances at summer camp and little hands reaching out to bless a cardboard cutout of President Bush, praying for his new Supreme Court appointments.

BTW: When Clinton got busted for the whole Monica thing didn?t he seek spiritual healing and didn?t some churches ?pray? for him? Does that mean said churches were ?worshipping? him, or just following the age old tradition of praying for someone in their time of need?

Look, all I was saying is that if they are truely Christian, they would not only be praying for Bush, but they would also be praying for their enemy. Doesn't the Bible tell us so? Now while it is impossible to gauge if they also pray for their enemies from watching a trailer, I am going out on a limb in assuming they don't include Muslims in their daily Bush praying sessions.

 

[razor2025]

We don't need direct comparison to see how these evangelicals are no better than the Islamic extremeist. There's no need for christian terrorist boot camps. We have our highly skilled, top-of-the-line equipped US Army/Navy/AirForce/Marines that these brainwashed kids can sign up to for their "duty to god". Really, it's not any different. The Islamic extremeist just have less glitter, that's all. Once the evangelical takes over the government, they can easily launch their "crusade" using the US as its base. Any religious extremeist are no better than others, no matter what they have or have not done. I feel terrible for those kids that they've been put through that.

OTOH, this creates a great oppourtunity for people to get rich. Make any random product and slap some "Jesus approved" sticker on it, and these brainwashed kids will gobble it up like candy. It already happened with christian media with all the cruddy "praise jesus" rock/metal/rap songs.

 

[ProfJohn]

I think the comparisons between Jesus camps and what goes on Muslims schools and terrorist camps is totally off base.

When the people running these camps start to say that killing non-believers is ok under gods law then I?ll be worried. Otherwise the most harm these kids will do is annoying someone on a street corner.

Ironically, a lot of these kids will grow up and become disillusioned with their teachings and rebel.

umbrella39, I understand what you are saying. Who knows if they pray for Muslims too, most likely they pray for these non-believers to find the light or something like that.

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Look, all I was saying is that if they are truely Christian, they would not only be praying for Bush, but they would also be praying for their enemy. Doesn't the Bible tell us so? Now while it is impossible to gauge if they also pray for their enemies from watching a trailer, I am going out on a limb in assuming they don't include Muslims in their daily Bush praying sessions.

So you believe that muslims by default are our enemy?


We had speaker visit our church one time, she was a Jordanian who had converted to Christinty. Part of her message was about praying for muslims.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Look, all I was saying is that if they are truely Christian, they would not only be praying for Bush, but they would also be praying for their enemy. Doesn't the Bible tell us so? Now while it is impossible to gauge if they also pray for their enemies from watching a trailer, I am going out on a limb in assuming they don't include Muslims in their daily Bush praying sessions.

So you believe that muslims by default are our enemy?


We had speaker visit our church one time, she was a Jordanian who had converted to Christinty. Part of her message was about praying for muslims.

Those same muslims who she wants people to pray for would demand her execution for converting.

 

[Craig234]

"Once you get past the idea that getting people out of poverty will somehow solve this problem, you can move onto the realization they do hate the west as much as they proclaim they do.

OBL, that guy was nothing but impoverished his entire life"

No, you need to think they hate the west to justify your hate of them. You don't know how to deal with them respectfully. Some of them are brainwashed - like you. Others are not.

You are blind to your own side's wrongs - the blinders you use are phrases like 'blame American first' when the truth is 'take responsibility' - leading to war.

Leaders aren't much without followers; Osama was wealthy, but his ranks are filled with many who are poor or those who are fighitng for the poor. George Bush's financial situation isn't exactly typical of his soldiers, either, many of whom join for a way out of poverty.

What's worse - people who kill out of ideology, or people who kill for lack of the morality to know they shouldn't, just because the military offers them reward.