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Discussion Doctor who had to amputate someone's leg when they were forced to choose between insulin and rent tells truth about Pharma bribes

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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
19,961
11,241
136
It's a little sad that all of the responses are partisan bullshit. I get it, it's nice to sit on your high horse and look down on the unwashed masses, perhaps even point a trembling finger at their stupidity, but at the end of the day it's the same answer as everyone else has, an empty shrug.
pathetic,

At least glenn1 has the honesty to boldly declare FYGM.
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
31,934
10,714
146
^ One more where either the rich guy pays or nothing. You claim to be the one that cares about things like people losing legs but I guess the billionaire is literally the only person who can produce and pay for insulin since @ch33zw1z certainly won’t.
Well, it's because im greedy, right Glenn? I make millions a year, with super awesome benefits, just like the rest of middle class America.
 
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glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,388
1,013
126
Well, it's because im greedy, right Glenn? I make millions a year, with super awesome benefits, just like the rest of middle class America.
I guess more people will lose legs then since you can't afford to help them.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
13,777
1,951
126
speaking of insulin

‘This is a solvable issue’: Pricey insulin has Americans trekking to Canada in ‘caravans’

"One insulin user from Minnesota, Quinn Nystrom, documented her five-hour trek for insulin on Twitter.

Nystrom said that she bought a nearly identical product — one vial of insulin from Novo Nordisk — that cost US$320 in the U.S. and $30 in Canada.

“Where have we gone wrong America?!?” she tweeted."

https://globalnews.ca/news/5249662/americans-driving-canada-insulin-prices/
If I didn't get my supplies from the socialist VA, I'd happily drive six hours up to Vancouver every few months to save that kind of money.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
13,777
1,951
126
If the patent is available in the public domain after having been sold for $1 then nothing is holding back anyone from producing and distributing it at whatever price they want. The federal government, states, or cities can produce it without needing to rely on those evil greedy capitalists or people can just form collectives to produce it. No one owes you a fucking thing in this world including medicine and I'm surprised that no one in this thread has whipped out the argument favored by idiots "well the CEO can just take one less vacation this year and give their stuff away for free." As if the person making the argument would take a pay cut at their job so random person who'd rather take meth than hold down a job can have someone else provide the medicine to keep their foot from falling off.
You have a physical problem with your brain.

Single payer would cover a CAT scan.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,714
136
If the patent is available in the public domain after having been sold for $1 then nothing is holding back anyone from producing and distributing it at whatever price they want. The federal government, states, or cities can produce it without needing to rely on those evil greedy capitalists or people can just form collectives to produce it. No one owes you a fucking thing in this world including medicine and I'm surprised that no one in this thread has whipped out the argument favored by idiots "well the CEO can just take one less vacation this year and give their stuff away for free." As if the person making the argument would take a pay cut at their job so random person who'd rather take meth than hold down a job can have someone else provide the medicine to keep their foot from falling off.
A true hero in the War Against Straw.
 

Pohemi420

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
3,483
1,050
136
This study seems to indicate the only reason why generic insulin isn't produced is because doctors don't want to prescribe "obsolete" versions. If you care about people not being able to afford it then the easiest and most moral way of giving it to them is to produce it yourself (an earlier off-patent version) and giving it to them. You don't and won't because that means you would need to pay for it yourself when this is really about having someone else (the 'greedy CEO') pay for it instead. This is always, always, always about having someone else pay for what you consider to be a problem. The fix is at hand as I've described, you can either fix it or you're just as greedy as the CEO.
Talk about blatant oversimplification as well.

Look at it this way: if you were an HIV/AIDS patient in 2019, would you want to settle for a drug that has been around since 1984, even though there have been far more effective drugs developed since then? The idea that the changes in insulin have been slim and incremental to the point of not making a difference is ridiculous.

I started taking daily insulin injections in 1984. I used the same two types of insulin (NPH and Regular) until almost 2008. At that time I had been buying GENERIC bottles of NPH and Regular at Walmart for about $22 per bottle as I had no insurance. In 2008 my doctor wanted to switch me to new insulin that had been developed, Lantus and Humalog. The retail cost on these bottles was around $350, and it has since gone up even higher.

This wasn't some scheme from big pharm that all the doctors are in on- this insulin indeed works better, is more timely and reliable, and gives better control of blood glucose levels, leading to lower hemoglobin A1c tests, less complications, and potentially a longer lifespan. It does not justify the pricing on it, but it's also not some grand conspiracy that insulin hasn't really changed since 1920.

But hey! If you can't afford the new fancy stuff that can only be made in a German lab, don't worry! You still have access to old, outdated drugs. No worries...the changes were only incremental to keep the patents rolling over. No biggie.

EDIT: Glenn1 if it is SOOOO easy to just crank out 'old versions' of insulin and it supposedly works just as well, why aren't any single one of the six million insulin-dependent Americans getting right on that? Why aren't YOU? You could be rich! You certainly have to be the first person to have thought of this in such simple terms...
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
31,934
10,714
146
Talk about blatant oversimplification as well.

Look at it this way: if you were an HIV/AIDS patient in 2019, would you want to settle for a drug that has been around since 1984, even though there have been far more effective drugs developed since then? The idea that the changes in insulin have been slim and incremental to the point of not making a difference is ridiculous.

I started taking daily insulin injections in 1984. I used the same two types of insulin (NPH and Regular) until almost 2008. At that time I had been buying GENERIC bottles of NPH and Regular at Walmart for about $22 per bottle as I had no insurance. In 2008 my doctor wanted to switch me to new insulin that had been developed, Lantus and Humalog. The retail cost on these bottles was around $350, and it has since gone up even higher.

This wasn't some scheme from big pharm that all the doctors are in on- this insulin indeed works better, is more timely and reliable, and gives better control of blood glucose levels, leading to lower hemoglobin A1c tests, less complications, and potentially a longer lifespan. It does not justify the pricing on it, but it's also not some grand conspiracy that insulin hasn't really changed since 1920.

But hey! If you can't afford the new fancy stuff that can only be made in a German lab, don't worry! You still have access to old, outdated drugs. No worries...the changes were only incremental to keep the patents rolling over. No biggie.

EDIT: Glenn1 if it is SOOOO easy to just crank out 'old versions' of insulin and it supposedly works just as well, why aren't any single one of the six million insulin-dependent Americans getting right on that? Why aren't YOU? You could be rich! You certainly have to be the first person to have thought of this in such simple terms...
Imagine the FYGM from insulin cartel leader Glenn. Just oozing FYGM.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,388
1,013
126
Talk about blatant oversimplification as well.

Look at it this way: if you were an HIV/AIDS patient in 2019, would you want to settle for a drug that has been around since 1984, even though there have been far more effective drugs developed since then? The idea that the changes in insulin have been slim and incremental to the point of not making a difference is ridiculous.

I started taking daily insulin injections in 1984. I used the same two types of insulin (NPH and Regular) until almost 2008. At that time I had been buying GENERIC bottles of NPH and Regular at Walmart for about $22 per bottle as I had no insurance. In 2008 my doctor wanted to switch me to new insulin that had been developed, Lantus and Humalog. The retail cost on these bottles was around $350, and it has since gone up even higher.

This wasn't some scheme from big pharm that all the doctors are in on- this insulin indeed works better, is more timely and reliable, and gives better control of blood glucose levels, leading to lower hemoglobin A1c tests, less complications, and potentially a longer lifespan. It does not justify the pricing on it, but it's also not some grand conspiracy that insulin hasn't really changed since 1920.

But hey! If you can't afford the new fancy stuff that can only be made in a German lab, don't worry! You still have access to old, outdated drugs. No worries...the changes were only incremental to keep the patents rolling over. No biggie.

EDIT: Glenn1 if it is SOOOO easy to just crank out 'old versions' of insulin and it supposedly works just as well, why aren't any single one of the six million insulin-dependent Americans getting right on that? Why aren't YOU? You could be rich! You certainly have to be the first person to have thought of this in such simple terms...
If you don’t want to pay for the IP value of the new drugs and aren’t interested in producing the “old outdated” drugs that’s fine with me as it’s your foot if it gets amputated. You aren’t owed someone else’s labor or IP. I guess you can lobby Uncle Sam to manufacture drugs for you.
 

Pohemi420

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
3,483
1,050
136
If you don’t want to pay for the IP value of the new drugs and aren’t interested in producing the “old outdated” drugs that’s fine with me as it’s your foot if it gets amputated. You aren’t owed someone else’s labor or IP. I guess you can lobby Uncle Sam to manufacture drugs for you.
So explain to me why Americans need to be footing the bill for the R&D and intellectual properties, when everyone else pays fractions? What is your imagined justification for it?
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,124
3,100
126
So explain to me why Americans need to be footing the bill for the R&D and intellectual properties, when everyone else pays fractions? What is your imagined justification for it?
Capitalism. America is its bastion. No other country on planet earth will touch it anymore, at least they won't swear by it. FYGM is it's touchstone and it's cold as granite in January. They are demonizing socialism but if you don't have a social conscience you aren't much of a human.

The ability to work together for the common good is unique to humans among primates. But many have not gotten the memo!

Big pharma gets Americans to pay for the research and pay bigtime for the results, ultimately filling big pharma's big pockets. Money talks, homeless walks.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,630
8,756
136
So explain to me why Americans need to be footing the bill for the R&D and intellectual properties, when everyone else pays fractions? What is your imagined justification for it?
The justification is that you have really stupid Americans with a FYGM attitude like Glenn who are all too willing to support the status quo.

Its ok though, karma is a bitch and I'm sure Glenn will get a visit.
 
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TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
23,395
2,664
136
The justification is that you have really stupid Americans with a FYGM attitude like Glenn who are all too willing to support the status quo.

Its ok though, karma is a bitch and I'm sure Glenn will get a visit.
Yep. It's only FYGM until Glenn needs something, then you'll hear his justification for it. Probably something about how he's owed it.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
7,630
2,800
136
Doctor Who had to amputate someone's leg? Due to the failings of the US health care system?


I don't really watch that show, but I think I approve of this new hard-hitting political direction.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,793
3,308
126
Doctor who had to amputate someone's leg when they were forced to choose between insulin and rent tells truth about Pharma bribes
Between Basic Income, a Federal Home Loan program, and Medicare for All - I've an inkling that under my policy no one would be forced to choose between those things, with rent automatically paid for or eliminated altogether, insulin reduced in price, and monthly income to pay your portion of it.

America is supposedly the richest nation, but due to our insane prices it sure doesn't feel like it. We squander our wealth when people are forced to make choices like these. They shouldn't have to, and it is our duty to help them so it never comes to this. That no one suffers like in the OP. Needless suffering due to poverty is a blight upon the American soul. A pox on all the houses... of those who deny the need to solve this.
 
Nov 29, 2006
14,578
2,349
126
I blame the stock market. it is evil. It pushes companies to turn a profit at all costs. Morals, ethics, laws be damned.

I mean i blame greedy people also, but we have a vehicle in place to allow that greed to flourish.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,124
3,100
126
I blame the stock market. it is evil. It pushes companies to turn a profit at all costs. Morals, ethics, laws be damned.

I mean i blame greedy people also, but we have a vehicle in place to allow that greed to flourish.
Well, it's capitalism, it's private ownership. The stock market at least enables you and anyone to be part owner of corporations. Without it, all corporations would be privately owned. That would be worse. Publicly traded companies are subject to much more transparency, are audited by virtue of federal regulations. Privately held companies are shielded, relatively. I know this because my niece's son recently graduated from Tulane University in accounting and now makes a living auditing publicly traded companies, which is required by law. And take note: Even supposedly communist countries, Russia and China, have stock markets.
 
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GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,780
565
126
Since single payer itself wouldn't necessarily directly fix the issue, other than potentially eliminating the most lucrative market, and the companies still need to make something, I'm curious what everyone's preferred solution is? Is revised medical patent law enough? Margin caps, kinda like health insurance providers?
 

Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
6,727
2,240
136
Colorado is certainly taking the right step with their 100 dollar max copay for person but the rest must come from insurance. That'll just translate to higher premiums in effect showing that we need single payer Medicare for all (atleast as an option that people can choose over private).
 

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