Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness

[Aikouka]

I went to see Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness yesterday, and I hate to say this... but I think it's in the bottom tier of Marvel movies for me. Ultimately, I thought the writing and dialog were just subpar -- especially given that Spider-Man: No Way Home came right before this -- and I really didn't think that Sam Raimi's direction was anything great. Unfortunately, I can't go into too many complaints without going into what I believe are spoilers. I haven't seen all of the trailers and TV spots to know if some of this (such as the villain) has been revealed.

The Story: Basically, the story felt a bit lazy. It's about the quality that you'd expect in an origin story movie where the main focus is on the growth/change with the main character. However... that's not really what this movie is about. The story in this movie is essentially an extension of Wandavision where Wanda is trying to steal America Chavez's dimension hopping power so she can steal her kids from another universe. To be frank, I'm just not a huge fan of this storyline as a whole. I can certainly understand the motivations of Wanda as a character wanting to live the life she thinks she has been robbed of, but I'm not sure if the movie does a great job of conveying that outside of some Full House-esque shots of her with the kids. I thought the scene near the end of her confronting the kids and her other self was far more emotional and worked a lot better than anything else. Although, hopefully someone can fill me in on one thing... what did that universe's Wanda say to the MCU Wanda before she was brought back? I couldn't understand it nor could anyone that I went with.

The Direction: I wouldn't consider myself a diehard Raimi fan or anything like that, but I know how to spot a few Raimi-isms when it comes to directing. For example, his penchant for up-close face shots in times of duress. (There are some of those in here.) Now, at least based upon what I've heard in videos discussing some of his prior work, one aspect that he is fond of is off-kilter shots typically through angling (Dutch Angle, etc.). I don't know if I missed it, but outside of those close-ups, the movie seemed fairly bogstandard. There was one scene that came across as really awkward, it was when Wanda was outside Kamar Taj and talking to Doctor Strange right before attacking. She just goes on this monologue, and the shot has this weird... almost creepy framing to it. A part of me wonders if that was done on purpose to be unsettling for the viewer, because Wanda's mindset is supposed to be unsettling... or if I'm just giving Raimi too much credit for a weird decision.

One thing I did see people touch on in reviews is that there is more "gore" in this movie than pretty much any other Marvel movie. It is pretty tame levels of gore though. The vast majority of the gore involves a fight between Wanda and the Illuminati (Black Bolt, Mister Fantastic, Captain Marvel, Professor X, and Captain Carter). The most gory of this was like when Black Bolt's mouth was "removed" by Wanda and he ended up shouting and scrambling his brains inside his head. (It looked a bit like a balloon deflating.) Mister Fantastic was turned into a giant twist-n-peel candy. Captain Carter got cut in half with her shield (not visible; implied). I actually saw that this scene got posted to YouTube if you want to see it.

There is one thing that kind of bugged me, and it is a complete spoiler. This movie features the Illuminati, which was heavily hinted at in the trailer. As noted in a previous inline spoiler tag, the Illuminati includes Mordo as Sorcerer Supreme, Captain Marvel, Reed Richards, Professor X, Black Bolt, and Captain Carter. Now, I'm going to sound a bit picky about this, but I really didn't feel great about the portrayal of Reed Richards. The reason why I'm harping on this is because Marvel is likely planning on bringing back the Fantastic Four, and getting the characters right is an important aspect. I don't consider myself a Fantastic Four expert or anything close to that, but my understanding is that Reed Richards should come across as a bit of an ass. It's not that he's a mean person, but rather he has this slavish devotion to logic and his view of what's right. This Reed Richards, played by John Krasinsky, had that a little bit when talking about how they executed their Doctor Strange. However, he seemed far too nice -- and frankly, for being the "smartest man alive", really stupid -- when confronting Wanda. Also, as a complete side note... I was really hoping they'd include Namor and maybe the alternate Iron Man since both of them are supposed to be part of the Illuminati.

To be blunt, it seems like Phase 4 has been pretty bad so far. Out of the four released movies, only one of them (Spider-Man: No Way Home) was arguably well done, and the other three were (in my opinion) either bad (The Eternals) or just mediocre (Black Widow, Doctor Strange 2). I do have some hope for Thor 4, but a part of me does worry a bit because the current trailer for the movie is pulling the exact same stunt as Doctor Strange 2... not showing the villain. The movie comes out two months from now, and they aren't willing to show off Christian Bale's Gorr the God Butcher? Is it simply because they want to make it seem more like Thor's quest to find himself, which is more or less what the trailer suggests, or because it won't be very good? (To be fair, it's also a teaser and not technically a trailer.)

 

[SKORPI0]

Didn't read your spoilers, but I'll be watching it in 3D in about 3 1/2 hours. So far just 13 tickets sold.

 

[UsandThem]

To be blunt, it seems like Phase 4 has been pretty bad so far. Out of the four released movies, only one of them (Spider-Man: No Way Home) was arguably well done, and the other three were (in my opinion) either bad (The Eternals) or just mediocre (Black Widow, Doctor Strange 2). I do have some hope for Thor 4, but a part of me does worry a bit because the current trailer for the movie is pulling the exact same stunt as Doctor Strange 2... not showing the villain.

I'm in the same boat as I haven't been impressed by any of Marvel's recent movies (although I didn't like Spider Man: No Way Home).

I also really didn't like that last Wonder Woman 1984 movie (or The Batman).

I'm not sure if I'm simply getting burned out by all of superhero movies, or if they are just simply bad in their own right (although I'm fairly positive The Eternals, WW 1984, and The Batman were simply bad and boring).

I guess I'll see if the new Thor and Guardians Of The Galaxy movies are enjoyable, and by then I should truly know if it's simply superhero burnout or not.

 

[Aikouka]

Didn't read your spoilers, but I'll be watching it in 3D in about 3 1/2 hours. So far just 13 tickets sold.

Hey, even if I didn't enjoy it, I do hope you have a great time!

I'm in the same boat as I haven't been impressed by any of Marvel's recent movies (although I didn't like Spider Man: No Way Home).

I also really didn't like that last Wonder Woman 1984 movie (or The Batman).

I'm not sure if I'm simply getting burned out by all of superhero movies, or if they are just simply bad in their own right (although I'm fairly positive The Eternals, WW 1984, and The Batman were simply bad and boring).

I guess I'll see if the new Thor and Guardians Of The Galaxy movies are enjoyable, and by then I should truly know if it's simply superhero burnout or not.

I think the biggest praise that I can give Spider-Man: No Way Home is that it had a lofty goal by trying to introduce so many characters from past films and not have them feel like purely nostalgia bait. Now, I think it did a good job of that strictly in regard to characters that actually mattered (Doc Ock, Green Goblin, etc.), but those that didn't matter much (e.g. Electro, Lizard, Sandman, etc.) felt a bit tacked on. I do agree with some opinions that I've read that talk about how No Way Home felt like the first "real" Spider-Man MCU movie as it better reflects the heavier burden that Peter takes on trying to balance his life as Peter Parker and Spider-Man, which is something that the first trilogy did far, far better.

I actually didn't mind The Batman, but my god... it was definitely way too long. That's at least one good thing that I can say about Doctor Strange 2... it's only two hours long.

I don't think it's so much of an issue with burnout (at least for me), but to a degree, some of these movies just aren't that good. It probably doesn't help that they're trying to also tie in their TV shows to the MCU, and I'd argue that the TV shows have been mostly lackluster. It reminds me a bit of how I technically need to watch The Book of Boba Fett to keep up with The Mandalorian, but after all the negativity that I heard of surrounding The Book of Boba Fett, I'd rather not waste my time. (I'm tempted to just watch the episodes in question and ignore all others.) I also keep hearing that I need to watch four seasons of Star Wars Rebels to properly understand the new Obi-Wan Kenobi series. (Albeit, I've also heard that Rebels is actually good.)

Although, thinking about it... the earlier Marvel movies were arguably not that great either. Yeah, we had some good movies such as the first Iron Man, but in my opinion, every Iron Man sequel was pretty weak after that. The Incredible Hulk was an incredible dud. I did like Thor and Captain America to a degree, but I know that they also weren't really fan favorites. It seems more like it was specific writers and/or directors (e.g. Russo Brothers, Taika Waititi, etc.) that gave us the movies that we really remember.

 

[UsandThem]

It reminds me a bit of how I technically need to watch The Book of Boba Fett to keep up with The Mandalorian, but after all the negativity that I heard of surrounding The Book of Boba Fett, I'd rather not waste my time. (I'm tempted to just watch the episodes in question and ignore all others.) I also keep hearing that I need to watch four seasons of Star Wars Rebels to properly understand the new Obi-Wan Kenobi series. (Albeit, I've also heard that Rebels is actually good.)

I was so pumped when Boba Fett returned and when it was announced he'd get his own show.

However, IMO they killed off Boba Fett being cool/bad ass. They pretty well made the "most feared bounty hunter in the universe" into a wuss who has to constantly be saved by other characters......including the moped hipsters. The only good parts of the show was when they focused on other characters (like the Mandalorian).

It has me really concerned about the new Obi-wan series. I hope they don't make the same mistake with him, but my expectations have been lowered after Boba.

I had a couple of Boba Fett figures preordered, and once I watched the new series, I cancelled both of them.

 

[Captante]

I'm in the same boat as I haven't been impressed by any of Marvel's recent movies (although I didn't like Spider Man: No Way Home).

I also really didn't like that last Wonder Woman 1984 movie (or The Batman).

I'm not sure if I'm simply getting burned out by all of superhero movies, or if they are just simply bad in their own right (although I'm fairly positive The Eternals, WW 1984, and The Batman were simply bad and boring).

I guess I'll see if the new Thor and Guardians Of The Galaxy movies are enjoyable, and by then I should truly know if it's simply superhero burnout or not.

The FIRST round(s) of Marvel-movies catered to MARVEL/Comic book fans. (culminating with Endgame)

The CURRENT crop are all about catering to as many people as possible.

USUALLY when something goes "mainstream" it's over in terms of quality and Marvel is no exception here.... comic fans are no longer their "target-audience" and neither are cohesive story-lines that make sense.

The real bummer for me is that it won't be all that long before the "mainstream" is done (at least for awhile) with superhero movies and us comic-fans will be left largely out in the cold.

 

[Aikouka]

The FIRST round(s) of Marvel-movies catered to MARVEL/Comic book fans. (culminating with Endgame)

The CURRENT crop are all about catering to as many people as possible.

USUALLY when something goes "mainstream" it's over in terms of quality and Marvel is no exception here.... comic fans are no longer their "target-audience" and neither are cohesive story-lines that make sense.

The real bummer for me is that it won't be all that long before the "mainstream" is done (at least for awhile) with superhero movies and us comic-fans will be left largely out in the cold.

I don't think Marvel's approach is really that much different. I think the problem is that as Phase 1 through 3 went on, it became harder for a random moviegoer to consider checking out a Marvel sequel due to the prior knowledge that would be recommended to enjoy them. Although, even without that prior knowledge, you could sometimes still enjoy the movie... just not as well. Anyway, if we consider the capstone movies (e.g. Infinity War, Endgame, etc.), those were definitely not something that you could just easily jump into given the wide breadth of characters.

I talk a little bit about it in my spoiler section(s), but there are definitely parts of Doctor Strange 2 that are far easier to digest if you have seen other, specific Marvel properties.

 

[hardhat]

Do I need to have seen The Eternals or Wandavision, or No Way Home to make sense of Doctor Strange 2? I have a general idea of what they are about, but haven't seen them.

I loved the comic book character Doctor Strange.

 

[sactoking]

Just got done with this one. Giving it a 7.5/10. No spoilers.

I didn't like it as much as No Way Home but that's only because Spider-Man had the nostalgia factor. The 126 minute run time was more manageable than Spider-Man or the Eternals. Spider-Man felt like it had more in it but not an extra 60 minutes worth and Eternals dragged on way too much. This one felt better paced than either of those two.

This is definitely the darkest Marvel movie so far in terms of tone. I liked the call outs to other things. I enjoyed that Steven Strange is MUCH less sanctimonious than he is as a supporting character.

It took me a minute to figure out what Wanda said. My wife didn't catch it either. "They'll be well taken care of."

 

[SKORPI0]

Just came back from the theater. Was entertained and enjoyed it, 8/10.

Long story line, took me about 2 hours to type and recall the sequence of events/grammar/spellcheck. I could have missed some details, sequence of events.
Movie shows you the limits of Dr.Strange mystic powers.

Spoiler

Wanda as she is and also under the spell of the Darkhold (book of Sins) as the Scarlet Witch shows you how powerful she is.

Strange has a dream where he and a girl are being chased by a demon while looking for the book of Vishanti (the source of White magic in Earth). This version of Strange is killed by the Demon, and the girl (Chavez) opens a portal and ends up in Earth -616., bring along the corpse fo the dead Dr.Strange. Strange wakes up from the nightmare, goes to attend the wedding of this ex-girlfriend who now marries someone else. Strange notices from his view in the high balcony of the reception building something going on at ground level, people running from something out of this current view and summons his cape (The Cloak of Levitation), flies down to investigate. Strange and Wong battle a giant Octopus like creature in New York under the influence of Wanda/Scarlet Witch who is after a girl name Chavez. She later on explains she can travel the Multiverse but somehow cannot control it, but mostly under fear of attack. She brings then to the corpse of Strange, and Dr. Strange buries this version under bricks on top of the building. After refusing to surrender Chavez, Wanda/Scarlet Witch attacks Kamar-Taj and ends up killing a lot of the sorcerers. The Darkhold is somehow destroyed ending her "dreamwalk" so she can view her boys via her counterpart in one of the multiple alternate universes. She forces Wong to bring her to Mount Wundagore (the source of the Darkhold's power) where they find there is a shrine to the Scarlet Witch and creatures somehow bow to her. She re-establishes the dream-walk with her counterpart in Earth-838.

Note- there is only one version of Chavez in the whole Multiverse.

After trying to fight Wanda/Scarlet Witch, Strange and Chavez transports accidentally herself and Strange to a alternate universe (Earth-838) where their version Strange is dead. They visit the Sanctum Sanctorum and see Mordo under the guise of being friendly, serves them a glass of wine and both pass out. Dr.Strange (Earth-616) and Chavez wake up and find themselves bound and locked up in a "polycarbonate fishbowls", and has to answer for his "incursion" to their universe. Christine Palmer of this universe studies to find how different Strange is to theirs. He is brought (by Ultrons) before the secret society called the Illuminati with Professor Charles Xavier as the leader, with Captain Carter, Captain Marvel, Black Bolt, Reed Richards, and Mordo (who is the Sorcerer Supreme). He is told that their version of Dr. Strange has conquered Thanos but later on dies (actually voluntarily killed) because he became too powerful. They are later killed by the Scarlet Witch who can "dreamwalk' into the body of her Earth-838 version using the Darkhold. After realizing that this Dr. Strange could be different from their Dr.Strange, Professor X somehow helps release him Strange and Mordo fight, who then defeated. Palmer releases the rest of Dr.Strange and Chavez binders and leads them to where their version of the Book of Vishanti is kept. It is behind a metal hatch door wheel that can only be opened by Dr.Strange with Strange's (Earth-838) broken watch Palmer has kept. Wanda/Scarlet Witch somehow is able to pursue them in that a floating space, fighting ensues and the Book of Vishanti is destroyed/disintegrated. Chavez transports Dr.Strange and Palmer thought various Multiverses where they are changed physically, various citiscapes around them, before being captured herself by Wanda/Scarlet Witch.

Palmer and Strange end up in a alternate "dead" universe and this corrupted Dr. Strange with a copy of the Darkhold. They fight it out and Dr.Strange wins over Strange falling to his death and pinned to a spiked metal gate/fence. Using the Darkhold Dr.Strange uses the corpse Strange he buried in Earth-616 to fight Scarlet Witch in Mount Wundagore, who has Chavez in the sacrificial round table. Since using the dead is unacceptable, the corpse Strange is pursued by dead spirit warriors. With the help of Christine Palmer while Dr. Strange is saved by her shinning a light from a magic lamp (not sure what it is called). Unable to fight Wanda/Scarlet Witch, Chavez transports her to Earth-838 where she starts to attack her counterpart Wanda and her boys witnessing her evil version. The boys run in fear and cry to their mother (Earth-838). Wanda (Earth-616) realizes that she is making huge mistake, stops attacking and regrets on what she has done and is somehow forgiven by Wanda (Earth-838). She uses her powers to destroy all version of the Darkhold throughout the universe and destroys Mount Wundagore, sacrificing herself and perhaps being buried underneath (fate unknown). Dr.Strange reveals to Palmer his love to his universes Palmer (Earth-616) but has always been scared to have a real relationship, before she is returned to her own universe (Earth-838).

Chavez in now being trained as a sorcerer at Kamar-Taj, Strange leaves her there before returning to the Sancto Santorum via the Magic Portal. Later on, Dr. Strange is shown replacing the broken glass of the watch from Christine Palmer and keeps it in a wooden drawer. While walking in New York Dr.Strange collapses and somehow develops a third eye with people looking on and passing by him.

Didn't stay for the ending credits. if any and had to take a leak.....

 

[Aikouka]

Just came back from the theater. Was entertained and enjoyed it, 8/10.

Long story line, took me about 2 hours to type and recall the sequence of events/grammar/spellcheck. I could have missed some details.
Movie shows you the limits of Dr.Strange mystic powers.

Spoiler

Wanda as she is and also under the spell of the Darkhold (book of Sins) as the Scarlet Witch shows you how powerful she is.

Strange has a dream where he and a girl are being chased by a demon while looking for the book of Vishanti (the source of White magic in Earth). This version of Strange is killed by the Demon, and the girl (Chavez) opens a portal and ends up in Earth -616., bring along the corpse fo the dead Dr.Strange. Strange wakes up from the nightmare, goes to attend the wedding of this ex-girlfriend who now marries someone else. Strange notices from his view in the high balcony of the reception building something going on at ground level, people running from something out of this current view and summons his cape (The Cloak of Levitation), flies down to investigate. Strange and Wong battle a giant Octopus like creature in New York under the influence of Wanda/Scarlet Witch who is after a girl name Chavez. She later on explains she can travel the Multiverse but somehow cannot control it, but mostly under fear of attack. She brings then to the corpse of Strange, and Dr. Strange buries this version under bricks on top of the building. After refusing to surrender Chavez, Wanda/Scarlet Witch attacks Kamar-Taj and ends up killing a lot of the sorcerers. The Darkhold is somehow destroyed ending her "dreamwalk" so she can view her boys via her counterpart in one of the multiple alternate universes. She forces Wong to bring her to Mount Wundagore (the source of the Darkhold's power) where they find there is a shrine to the Scarlet Witch and creatures somehow bow to her. She re-establishes the dream-walk with her counterpart in Earth-838.

Note- there is only one version of Chavez in the whole Multiverse.

After trying to fight Wanda/Scarlet Witch, Strange and Chavez transports accidentally herself and Strange to a alternate universe (Earth-838) where their version Strange is dead. They visit the Sanctum Sanctorum and see Mordo under the guise of being friendly, serves them a glass of wine and both pass out. Dr.Strange (Earth-616) and Chavez wake up and find themselves bound and locked up in a "unbreakable" glass cage, and has to answer for his "incursion" to their universe. Christine Palmer of this universe studies to find how different Strange is to theirs. He is brought (by Ultrons) before the secret society called the Illuminati with Professor Charles Xavier as the leader, with Captain Carter, Captain Marvel, Black Bolt, Reed Richards, and Mordo (who is the Sorcerer Supreme). He is told that their version of Dr. Strange has conquered Thanos but later on dies (actually voluntarily killed) because he became too powerful. They are later killed by the Scarlet Witch who can "dreamwalk' into the body of her Earth-838 version using the Darkhold. After realizing that this Dr. Strange could be different from their Dr.Strange Professor X somehow helps release him but Strange and Mordo fight to the death, who he overcomes. Palmer releases the rest of Dr.Strange and Chavez binders and leads them to where their version of the Book of Vishanti is kept. It is behind a bolted door that can only be opened by Dr.Strange with Strange's (Earth-838) broken watch Palmer has kept. Wanda/Scarlet Witch somehow is able to pursue them in that a floating space, fighting ensues and the Book of Vishanti is destroyed/disintegrated. Chavez transports Dr.Strange and Palmer thought various Multiverses where they are changed physically before being captured by Wanda/Scarlet Witch.

Palmer and Strange end up in a alternate "dead" universe and this corrupted Dr. Strange with a copy of the Darkhold. They fight it out and Dr.Strange wins over Strange falling to his death and pinned to a spiked metal gate/fence. Using the Darkhold Dr.Strange uses the corpse Strange he buried in Earth-616 to fight Scarlet Witch in Mount Wundagore, who has Chavez in the sacrificial round table. Since using the dead is unacceptable, the corpse Strange is pursued by dead spirit warriors. With the help of Christine Palmer while Dr. Strange is saved by her shinning a light from a magic lamp (not sure what it is called). Unable to fight Wanda/Scarlet Witch, Chavez transports her to Earth-838 where she starts to attack her counterpart Wanda and her boys witnessing her evil version. The boys run in fear and cry to their mother (Earth-838). Wanda (Earth-616) realizes that she is making huge mistake, stops attacking and regrets on what she has done and is somehow forgiven by Wanda (Earth-838). She uses her powers to destroy all version of the Darkhold throughout the universe and destroys Mount Wundagore, sacrificing herself and perhaps being buried underneath (fate unknown). Dr.Strange reveals to Palmer his love to his universes Palmer (Earth-616) but has always been scared to have a real relationship, before she is returned to her own universe (Earth-838).

Chavez in now being trained as a sorcerer at Kamar-Taj, Strange leaving her there before returning to the Sancto Santorum via the Magic Portal. Later on, while walking in New York Dr.Strange collapses and somehow develops a third eye with people looking and passing by him.

Didn't stay for the ending credits. if any and had to take a leak.....

There are two end credit scenes. One is after the “fancy credits” and is Doctor Strange is walking down the street when he a woman dressed in “mystic looking clothing” shows up before him telling him that he caused a… that bad thing from the movie, and asks if he’ll come help. She cuts open a portal to what looks like the Dark Dimension, and they jump through. The one after the full credits is just a gag one that shows Poppa Pizza finally stop hitting himself, and he shouts “it’s over!”

 

[SKORPI0]

There are two end credit scenes. One is after the “fancy credits” and is Doctor Strange is walking down the street when he a woman dressed in “mystic looking clothing” shows up before him telling him that he caused a… that bad thing from the movie, and asks if he’ll come help. She cuts open a portal to what looks like the Dark Dimension, and they jump through. The one after the full credits is just a gag one that shows Poppa Pizza finally stop hitting himself, and he shouts “it’s over!”

Read about this end credit, hopefully this opens the door for a Part 3. Can't wait.

Spoiler

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Clea_(Earth-616)

 

[Muadib]

Going to see this now... I'm back and liked it. I have a question about the end scene, but I'll wait a week.

 

[akenbennu]

Do I need to have seen The Eternals or Wandavision, or No Way Home to make sense of Doctor Strange 2? I have a general idea of what they are about, but haven't seen them.

I loved the comic book character Doctor Strange.

I think they give you enough in the movie that you don't have to have seen anything previous, though finding a recap of the Wandavision stuff on youtube might be helpful.