Do you trust nukes in Pakistan's hands?

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Born2bwire

Born2bwire

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2005
9,840
6
71
Originally posted by: Braznor
Originally posted by: Captante
I actually agree that it should be common sense that Pakistans nukes will be compromised if the current Government falls ... of course I can't say I feel very good about them having nukes in the first place & India isn't a whole lot more confidence-inspiring.
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Please elaborate on this.
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Have you watched Bollywood movies? There's something in the water there.
 
Braznor

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
4,767
435
126
Originally posted by: Captante




Sorry ... your turn to elaborate ... specifically as to how these two countries didn't come close to using nuclear weapons on each other a couple years back.

Please provide verifiable facts only.
Click to expand...

The conflict you refer to is called Kargil. It happened because of the Pakistani army's unhappiness over Nawaz Sharief's reciprocity over Indian overtures of peace.

Our then Prime Minister went all the way to Pakistan to bring peace to the region, even their PM Nawaz Sharief wanted to bring about peace. However one man, very unhappy with this situation, refused to salute, shake hands or even meet the visiting dignitary.

General Pervez Musharaff.

He formulated the war as a plan to seize mountainous high grounds by infiltrating them with their armymen in mountain gear and no uniforms. The resulting conflict was brutal mountain warfare where our armies had to fight uphill against well trenched invaders with no air support (to risk avoiding a fullblown open war with nukes)

Finally at the verge of defeat, it were the pakistanis who were about to unleash nukes without even involving their own prime minister Nawaz Sharief who went begging to Clinton to stop the conflict. There Clinton INFORMED sharief about his army's plan to go nuclear.

Then Musharaff to save face deposed Sharief in an army coup and as they say, the rest is history. So you see, we Indians had the best of intentions and so did Sharief, but as ever their army scuttled peace.

Wiki Kargil to find more.
 
SlickSnake

SlickSnake

Diamond Member
May 29, 2007
5,235
2
0
Originally posted by: Braznor
Originally posted by: Captante




Sorry ... your turn to elaborate ... specifically as to how these two countries didn't come close to using nuclear weapons on each other a couple years back.

Please provide verifiable facts only.
Click to expand...

The conflict you refer to is called Kargil. It happened because of the Pakistani army's unhappiness over Nawaz Sharief's reciprocity over Indian overtures of peace.

Our then Prime Minister went all the way to Pakistan to bring peace to the region, even their PM Nawaz Sharief wanted to bring about peace. One man refused to salute, shake hands or even meet the visiting dignitary.

General Pervez Musharaff. He formulated the war as a plan to seize mountaineous high grounds by infiltrating them with their armymen in mountain gear and no uniforms. The resulting conflict was brutal mountain warfare where our armies had to fight uphill against well trenched invaders.

Finally at the verge of defeat, it were the pakistanis who were about to unleash nukes without even involving their own prime minister Nawaz Sharief who went begging to Clinton to stop the conflict. There Clinton INFORMED sharief about his army's plan to go nuclear.

Then Musharaff to save face deposed Sharief in an army coup and as they say, the rest is history. So you see, we Indians had the best of intentions and so did Sharief, but as ever their army scuttled peace.

Wiki Kargil to find more.
Click to expand...

No, make me.

If you force my hand, we will have to nuke all your call centers.
 
C

cirrrocco

Golden Member
Sep 7, 2004
1,952
78
91
Originally posted by: Captante

Actually the USA & USSR spent nearly 50 years on the verge of nuking the entire planet back to the stone-age & by the way still have the majority of each others substantial nuclear arsenol pointed at each other. Fortunately for us all both countries showed (and continue to show) both tolerence & moderation over many years or you & I wouldn't be here.

In addition the reality is that immense & neglected nuclear stockpiles in the former Soviet Union represent a much greater threat then every other questionable nuclear-power combined.
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you know man, you really shouldnt talk about things you dont know, the sub continental nukes are not kept in the prepared state as it is in western countries..

he warheads are kept away from the missiles themselves. Now in the case of pakistan the military can easily justify mating the warhead and missile together, whereas in india, the warheads can only be mated after the nsa provides authorization. fyi, the nsa is a civilian structure.

so I would suggest not to babble about things you dont know about and not pass frivolous opinions...


Now with regard to the situation in kargil, read abt wat exactly happened!. the US was about to nuke cuba and russia just because of some 400 km nuke misiles and it wasnt even a hot war, whereas these two countries fought a damm war and still didnt go over the nuke threshold. That should say something...I am more unsure the moderation, or rather lack of moderation shown by the US with regard to the iran issue than India..
 
Braznor

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
4,767
435
126
Originally posted by: SlickSnake


No, make me.

If you force my hand, we will have to nuke all your call centers.
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There ya go,

Text

Nuke Bollywood and you will have my eternal gratitude. ;)

 
Captante

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,354
10,880
136
Originally posted by: Braznor
Originally posted by: Captante




Sorry ... your turn to elaborate ... specifically as to how these two countries didn't come close to using nuclear weapons on each other a couple years back.

Please provide verifiable facts only.
Click to expand...

The conflict you refer to is called Kargil. It happened because of the Pakistani army's unhappiness over Nawaz Sharief's reciprocity over Indian overtures of peace.

Our then Prime Minister went all the way to Pakistan to bring peace to the region, even their PM Nawaz Sharief wanted to bring about peace. However one man, very unhappy with this situation, refused to salute, shake hands or even meet the visiting dignitary.

General Pervez Musharaff.

He formulated the war as a plan to seize mountainous high grounds by infiltrating them with their armymen in mountain gear and no uniforms. The resulting conflict was brutal mountain warfare where our armies had to fight uphill against well trenched invaders with no air support (to risk avoiding a fullblown open war with nukes)

Finally at the verge of defeat, it were the pakistanis who were about to unleash nukes without even involving their own prime minister Nawaz Sharief who went begging to Clinton to stop the conflict. There Clinton INFORMED sharief about his army's plan to go nuclear.

Then Musharaff to save face deposed Sharief in an army coup and as they say, the rest is history. So you see, we Indians had the best of intentions and so did Sharief, but as ever their army scuttled peace.

Wiki Kargil to find more.
Click to expand...



Thanks ... thats the kind of reply I enjoy reading.

Note that I understand that India is much more politically stable then Pakistan & I really don't trust anyone (including my own country) fully with nukes.
 
Z

zoiks

Lifer
Jan 13, 2000
11,787
3
81
Originally posted by: Braznor
Originally posted by: Captante


As I recall it wasn't too long ago that India & Pakistan were on the brink of nuking each other back to the stone age ... neither country is exactly known for moderation & tolerance so I don't trust either with nukes.
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You are gravely mistaken about this. But its really okay.
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He's right. India should be forced to give up their nukes.
 
Z

zoiks

Lifer
Jan 13, 2000
11,787
3
81
Originally posted by: Braznor
Originally posted by: Captante




Sorry ... your turn to elaborate ... specifically as to how these two countries didn't come close to using nuclear weapons on each other a couple years back.

Please provide verifiable facts only.
Click to expand...

The conflict you refer to is called Kargil. It happened because of the Pakistani army's unhappiness over Nawaz Sharief's reciprocity over Indian overtures of peace.

Our then Prime Minister went all the way to Pakistan to bring peace to the region, even their PM Nawaz Sharief wanted to bring about peace. However one man, very unhappy with this situation, refused to salute, shake hands or even meet the visiting dignitary.

General Pervez Musharaff.

He formulated the war as a plan to seize mountainous high grounds by infiltrating them with their armymen in mountain gear and no uniforms. The resulting conflict was brutal mountain warfare where our armies had to fight uphill against well trenched invaders with no air support (to risk avoiding a fullblown open war with nukes)

Finally at the verge of defeat, it were the pakistanis who were about to unleash nukes without even involving their own prime minister Nawaz Sharief who went begging to Clinton to stop the conflict. There Clinton INFORMED sharief about his army's plan to go nuclear.

Then Musharaff to save face deposed Sharief in an army coup and as they say, the rest is history. So you see, we Indians had the best of intentions and so did Sharief, but as ever their army scuttled peace.

Wiki Kargil to find more.
Click to expand...

Pretty one way story there. I'm pretty sure the Pakistani version would be just as dramatic if not more.
 
So

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,923
17
81
Where's the "I don't give a shit so long as they don't try to nuke me" option?
 
Captante

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,354
10,880
136
Originally posted by: cirrrocco

I am more unsure the moderation, or rather lack of moderation shown by the US with regard to the iran issue than India.
Click to expand...




I'm not unsure at all ... the US Government majorly blew it going into Iraq & going into Iran would be an unmitigated disaster.


As for comparing Kargil to the Cuban missle crisis, just don't ... the situation wasn't comparable & the stakes were imeasurably higher.



In any case ... its starting to smell like P&N in here .... that or sombody's boiling cabbage .. not sure. :p




 
P

potato28

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
8,964
0
0
Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
We should create rings and distribute them among other nuclear powers. Then we should secretly forge another ring...A Great Ring of power, the ONE RING, to enslave the wearers of the other Rings of Power.
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Do they make Captain Nuke'em all when all of the rings combine? :p
 
K

kb315

Senior member
Jun 16, 2001
394
0
0
Originally posted by: potato28
Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
We should create rings and distribute them among other nuclear powers. Then we should secretly forge another ring...A Great Ring of power, the ONE RING, to enslave the wearers of the other Rings of Power.
Click to expand...

Do they make Captain Nuke'em all when all of the rings combine? :p
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No they make Duke Nuke'em
 
BoomerD

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,587
14,990
146
Absolutely not. I don't trust India with them either. Both countries are too unstable for nuk-u-ler weapons.

For that matter, I really don't trust ANY country with nukes, but especially not those under the control of religious fanatics.


BTW, P&N is that-a-way----------------->
 
N

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
reading "On the Beach" made me a pretty big nonproliferationist.

if the Pakistani government were to fall, I'd wholeheartedly support the US sending tactical forces in to secure Pakistan's nuclear sites.
 
FoBoT

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,084
15
81
fobot.com
:music:
Theyre out to get you, theres demons closing in on every side
They will possess you unless you change the number on your dial
Now is the time for you and I to cuddle close together
All thru the night Ill save you from the terror on the screen,
Ill make you see
Chorus
That this is thriller, thriller night
cause I can thrill you more than any ghost would dare to try
Girl, this is thriller, thriller night
So let me hold you tight and share a killer, diller, chiller
Thriller here tonight
Click to expand...
:music:
 
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