Do you think there should be border control?

[Darwin333]

A lot of what we're seeing now are Central Americans fleeing massive violence in places like Honduras due to the drug trade shifting around, not solely economic migrants.

If the US wants to resolve the immigration issue long term it needs to fix visa overstays and stabilize Mexico/Central America by ending the drug war plus providing economic assistance.

While I wholeheartedly agree with you about ending the drug war the stats that I have seen on Central American illegals doesn't show them as a significant portion of our current illegal population, yet. Regardless, if you cut off their ability to work and their access to public funds then what good does it really do them to be an illegal here versus an illegal in a South American country that they can find work in?

I may be naive but visa overstays should be something that is relatively easy to handle in the broader scope of the issue.

 

[Jhhnn]

You're right. Employer crackdown won't happen though as the exploiters have litterally bought the issue. They've also convinced so many dimwits to not only look the other way for... but actively cheer on selling out their fellow citizens.

As for people lamenting border walls, that arguement is decades too late. There's a vast stretch of border walls already. Congress agreed to build more long before Trump was elected, but didn't complete the last mandated wall fully. Trump seized on that fact in a stupid way, knowing most people are ignorant and stupid.

People operate as mostly symbolic idiots over a lot of things so to many Trump making a big show of enforcing already mandated walls being built becomes 'his wall' (singular) and he can play both sides for chumps over it.

The walls are nothing new, Trumps wall posturing is stupid, more of them arent really needed but since the employer penalty won't happen, it's just smoke and mirrors.

So let's keep it the way it is so that the GOP can keep folks like you nicely frothed up & irrational, voting for that good old trickle down feeling.

 

[bshole]

While I wholeheartedly agree with you about ending the drug war the stats that I have seen on Central American illegals doesn't show them as a significant portion of our current illegal population, yet. Regardless, if you cut off their ability to work and their access to public funds then what good does it really do them to be an illegal here versus an illegal in a South American country that they can find work in?

I may be naive but visa overstays should be something that is relatively easy to handle in the broader scope of the issue.

Central America is hell on earth.

Central America has only 0.6 percent of the world’s population yet accounted for 4 percent of worldwide murders. The region averaged 40.3 homicides per 100,000 people according to a Tico Times analysis of UNODC figures, making it a regional hotspot for murder. According to the UNODC, the only other regional hotspot is southern Africa, which had a rate of 26 homicides per 100,000.

 

[K1052]

While I wholeheartedly agree with you about ending the drug war the stats that I have seen on Central American illegals doesn't show them as a significant portion of our current illegal population, yet. Regardless, if you cut off their ability to work and their access to public funds then what good does it really do them to be an illegal here versus an illegal in a South American country that they can find work in?

I may be naive but visa overstays should be something that is relatively easy to handle in the broader scope of the issue.

They aren't a huge proportion of the current population but it's who's arriving now. Immigration from Mexico has basically stopped or reversed in some cases. If you're fleeing for your life employability may not be at the top of your list when picking a destination. As I said there is a different dynamic driving the current wave of immigration that's beyond sheer economics.

Visa overstays have been addressed in various bipartisan immigration compromises, which congress has consistently failed to enact.

 

[Puffnstuff]

They aren't a huge proportion of the current population but it's who's arriving now. Immigration from Mexico has basically stopped or reversed in some cases. If you're fleeing for your life employability may not be at the top of your list when picking a destination. As I said there is a different dynamic driving the current wave of immigration that's beyond sheer economics.

People here seeking political asylum for bona fide reasons are different than those just looking to make a quick buck and I feel they should receive preferential treatment when considering whether or not they should be allowed to remain. However, I feel that nobody should be able to escape the requirement of speaking fluent English which is a part of legal immigration and a lawful requirement of citizenship.

 

[compuwiz1]

They aren't a huge proportion of the current population but it's who's arriving now. Immigration from Mexico has basically stopped or reversed in some cases. If you're fleeing for your life employability may not be at the top of your list when picking a destination. As I said there is a different dynamic driving the current wave of immigration that's beyond sheer economics.

Visa overstays have been addressed in various bipartisan immigration compromises, which congress has consistently failed to enact.

Really?
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/05/cro...est-border-triple-in-march-from-year-ago.html

Sounds like more are trying to come, but they are being stopped. We're doing a better job of nabbing the illegal invaders before they can cross. Intent, however, is not down.

 

[K1052]

Really?
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/05/cro...est-border-triple-in-march-from-year-ago.html

Sounds like more are trying to come, but they are being stopped. We're doing a better job of nabbing the illegal invaders before they can cross. Intent, however, is not down.

By "immigration from Mexico" I mean Mexican nationals. The current surge is Central Americans fleeing violence/political instability. GWB and Obama saw similar ones in their tenures.

 

[K1052]

People here seeking political asylum for bona fide reasons are different than those just looking to make a quick buck and I feel they should receive preferential treatment when considering whether or not they should be allowed to remain. However, I feel that nobody should be able to escape the requirement of speaking fluent English which is a part of legal immigration and a lawful requirement of citizenship.

A fair chunk of Central America is an unstable violent mess and it's our fault. I think that should garner those people some special consideration.

 

[compuwiz1]

A fair chunk of Central America is an unstable violent mess and it's our fault. I think that should garner those people some special consideration.

How is this our fault? It is not our responsibility to look out for the world. If those people are so great and we should have them, why not ask, if they're so wonderful, why can't they fix their own countries?
I'll give you 1000 immigrants for every 1000 homeless we can take off the streets here. Until then, I have little feeling of obligation to those who want to move here, especially illegally.

 

[bshole]

How is this our fault? It is not our responsibility to look out for the world. If those people are so great and we should have them, why not ask, if they're so wonderful, why can't they fix their own countries?
I'll give you 1000 immigrants for every 1000 homeless we can take off the streets here. Until then, I have little feeling of obligation to those who want to move here, especially illegally.

If the fucking United States had not started a fucking drug war this would not be fucking happening. Legalize fucking drugs now.

This post brought to you by Viagra, the best fucking drug around.

 

[ch33zw1z]

If the fucking United States had not started a fucking drug war this would not be fucking happening. Legalize fucking drugs now.

This post brought to you by Viagra, the best fucking drug around.

Our incessant need to demonize others in the last 150 years for ingesting intoxicants has landed us is a war that's extended across the globe, turns ordinary people into criminals, and enriches the tippity top even further. To pretend like we haven't trolled the world under the guise of the WoD is foolish.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

How is this our fault? It is not our responsibility to look out for the world. If those people are so great and we should have them, why not ask, if they're so wonderful, why can't they fix their own countries?
I'll give you 1000 immigrants for every 1000 homeless we can take off the streets here. Until then, I have little feeling of obligation to those who want to move here, especially illegally.

We've created a shit-filled bed throughout most of the world, but especially central America. To refuse to lie in it, but instead build a wall around ourselves, will only garner more animosity towards us.

 

[Jhhnn]

Really?
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/05/cro...est-border-triple-in-march-from-year-ago.html

Sounds like more are trying to come, but they are being stopped. We're doing a better job of nabbing the illegal invaders before they can cross. Intent, however, is not down.

Yeh, tripled from the lowest level since 1971-

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-calls-military-secure-us-mexico-border-context/

 

[K1052]

How is this our fault? It is not our responsibility to look out for the world. If those people are so great and we should have them, why not ask, if they're so wonderful, why can't they fix their own countries?
I'll give you 1000 immigrants for every 1000 homeless we can take off the streets here. Until then, I have little feeling of obligation to those who want to move here, especially illegally.

The US has meddled more deeply in latin American affairs than probably anywhere else. Toppling dictators, propping new ones up, carving out chunks of sovereign countries for our own economic/strategic gain, using the military as a police force against the natives to benefit US industry. That's all even before we get to how US drug prohibition has devastated the lives of millions in these parts of the world.

So yea, this is actually in large part our responsibility.

 

[Brainonska511]

A fair chunk of Central America is an unstable violent mess and it's our fault. I think that should garner those people some special consideration.

It should, but many in this country, as exhibited by some recent posts, don't care to take responsibility for it. Responsibility is for other people. And if it is non-white people being injured, in their eyes it is definitely not the US's problem.

 

[brycejones]

The US has meddled more deeply in latin American affairs than probably anywhere else. Toppling dictators, propping new ones up, carving out chunks of sovereign countries for our own economic/strategic gain, using the military as a police force against the natives to benefit US industry. That's all even before we get to how US drug prohibition has devastated the lives of millions in these parts of the world.

So yea, this is actually in large part our responsibility.

But now we need to focus on the MAGA and not worry about how we screwed our neighbors over.

 

[bshole]

It should, but many in this country, as exhibited by some recent posts, don't care to take responsibility for it. Responsibility is for other people. And if it is non-white people being injured, in their eyes it is definitely not the US's problem.

Well the rich certainly have no intention of taking care of the poors. They don't necessarily give a shit if they come or not. If America collapses in the same way as the countries these people are fleeing, they already have escape plans for themselves. They are extremely aware of the wealth gap in America and the fact that a greater and greater percentage of Americans are holding on by a thread. The fact that American 1%ers are buying properties all over the world as escape hatches in anticipation of American collapse should scare the shit out of the rest of us. They seem to be pumping and dumping our entire country at this point.

Instead of spreading the wealth and reducing the inequality, they look to protect themselves. In the meantime, they get the little people to point at each other while they modify the laws to ensure they pay less in taxes. This shit is only going to last so long.

To Levchin, prepping for survival is a moral miscalculation; he prefers to “shut down party conversations” on the topic. “I typically ask people, ‘So you’re worried about the pitchforks. How much money have you donated to your local homeless shelter?’ This connects the most, in my mind, to the realities of the income gap. All the other forms of fear that people bring up are artificial.” In his view, this is the time to invest in solutions, not escape. “At the moment, we’re actually at a relatively benign point of the economy. When the economy heads south, you will have a bunch of people that are in really bad shape. What do we expect then?”

By January, 2015, Johnson was sounding the alarm: the tensions produced by acute income inequality were becoming so pronounced that some of the world’s wealthiest people were taking steps to protect themselves. At the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, Johnson told the audience, “I know hedge-fund managers all over the world who are buying airstrips and farms in places like New Zealand because they think they need a getaway.”

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/doomsday-prep-for-the-super-rich

 

[Brainonska511]

Well the rich certainly have no intention of taking care of the poors. They don't necessarily give a shit if they come or not. If America collapses in the same way as the countries these people are fleeing, they already have escape plans for themselves. They are extremely aware of the wealth gap in America and the fact that a greater and greater percentage of Americans are holding on by a thread. The fact that American 1%ers are buying properties all over the world as escape hatches in anticipation of American collapse should scare the shit out of the rest of us. They seem to be pumping and dumping our entire country at this point.

Instead of spreading the wealth and reducing the inequality, they look to protect themselves. In the meantime, they get the little people to point at each other while they modify the laws to ensure they pay less in taxes. This shit is only going to last so long.





https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/doomsday-prep-for-the-super-rich

There is a rich vs poor component, but never doubt the power of racism.

 

[uallas5]

Interesting take on the border issue by the mayor of El Paso. Being the mayor of a city of over 2M people smack on the border, I'd say he has a pretty good perspective on what's going on. Doesn't sound like he has any need for the National Guard.

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/05/5997...-national-guard-deployments-to-mexican-border

DEE MARGO: El Paso is one region of three states and two countries and a population of 2.7 million. But we've been involved with Mexico for over 400 years. So we're pretty close and proximate here. We haven't had - we're considered the safest city in the United States. We don't have any real issues. And we already have a fence that was established under the Bush administration that runs through our city, so...

GREENE: So you don't really need this.

MARGO: Well, from our standpoint, from a public safety standpoint, we're in good shape.

MARGO: What I would love to see is a better understanding of what truly goes on the border. When I hear even in East Texas and things where there are - you know, there are some folks who are quite xenophobic. They don't understand what's going on. We understand. Come down here and understand. Now, there are pockets where you have issues. But our issues are not significant related to drug trade or otherwise. There are still issues related to human trafficking that most people know on a national and an international basis. But for the most part, as I say, we're the safest city in the United States.

 

[Zaap]

So let's keep it the way it is so that the GOP can keep folks like you nicely frothed up & irrational, voting for that good old trickle down feeling.

Its hilarious how you just keep on illustrating glenn's point. You're one of he most deranged people here.

You're ENTIRE lame ass position is cheering on those cheating American citizens, hiring illegal workforces (in unions they are known as scabs) to undercut and undermine the American worker so that the cheaters get rich off it. It's just IN-SOURCING instead of outsourcing, with the added effect of third-world-izing American cities.

You're the CHEERLEADER of wealthy cheating businesses exploiting illegal labor- even as you point your dumb finger at others. If you had a fucking OUNCE of self-introspection you'd see you're everything and worse that you're always blathering on about in others. The fat cats ignoring US labor laws for fun and profit never had a better ally than dipshits like you.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Why do so many right wingers have to lead into a conversation using insults as the basis for their response?

 

[Jhhnn]

Its hilarious how you just keep on illustrating glenn's point. You're one of he most deranged people here.

You're ENTIRE lame ass position is cheering on those cheating American citizens, hiring illegal workforces (in unions they are known as scabs) to undercut and undermine the American worker so that the cheaters get rich off it. It's just IN-SOURCING instead of outsourcing, with the added effect of third-world-izing American cities.

You're the CHEERLEADER of wealthy cheating businesses exploiting illegal labor- even as you point your dumb finger at others. If you had a fucking OUNCE of self-introspection you'd see you're everything and worse that you're always blathering on about in others. The fat cats ignoring US labor laws for fun and profit never had a better ally than dipshits like you.

The economic exploitation of illegals is minor compared to the political exploitation of conservatives. All frothed up & raving every two years, over and over and over with no honest solutions at all. Zero. But it's an opportunity to vent mindless rage that's irresistible. You've done it so many times that it's Pavlovian. Trump & the GOP have you completely dialed in.

I mean, if the GOP wants better border control other than a stupid wall Dems won't stand in the way. But they never actually proposed such a thing.

I submit to you that we need to declare peace about the undocumented people & the "temporary" refugees who've been here a long while. Putting the high hard one to the Dreamers & the Salvadoran refugees who've been here since 2001 isn't how we define decency & compassion. Starting a Civil War in immigrant communities to facilitate mass deportations isn't that, either, nor is mass deportation of their American citizen children, either.

We deal with the legacy of the past, with our failure as a nation to control the influx that occurred across both the Clinton & GWB admins. It ended 9 years ago. And it's nothing we can't handle- we're already doing that if not as well as we could be. We need to make peace with ourselves & with the people we already let in. It's not that hard when we accept that the truth isn't what we wanted it to be. They're not leaving on their own & we won't be deporting them, either.

Maybe if folks like you would just quit raving & recognize reality we could give 'em green cards so they wouldn't be as exploitable. I mean as if you actually give a damn about that.

 

[killster1]

I think we should just take over all of south america and make a few mini Americas down there..

set up huge factories with low wages and make our american products give the workers benefits and then they wont need to travel to usa to work illegally.

I think its so stupid to give out welfare and services to people who work illegally they drive Cadillac escalades around here with gucci hand bags. fill up their grocery cart with Coke and peanuts and use a food stamp card.. hmmm i always wonder who are they selling peanuts and coke to? baseball games?

What ever the case it would be so easy for a store to report them or to check what items they are buying. i really like the food delivery idea. take away food stamps give people groceries.

It would save billions im sure in so many different ways ( but i guess this has to do with borders which are very important for stopping illegal items let alone illegal people / terrorists. just think drugs and guns being even easier to get on the street or half the price? yikes

 

[Jhhnn]

I think we should just take over all of south america and make a few mini Americas down there..

set up huge factories with low wages and make our american products give the workers benefits and then they wont need to travel to usa to work illegally.

I think its so stupid to give out welfare and services to people who work illegally they drive Cadillac escalades around here with gucci hand bags. fill up their grocery cart with Coke and peanuts and use a food stamp card.. hmmm i always wonder who are they selling peanuts and coke to? baseball games?

What ever the case it would be so easy for a store to report them or to check what items they are buying. i really like the food delivery idea. take away food stamps give people groceries.

It would save billions im sure in so many different ways ( but i guess this has to do with borders which are very important for stopping illegal items let alone illegal people / terrorists. just think drugs and guns being even easier to get on the street or half the price? yikes

Wow, man... where do you get your drugs? That's one of the most amazing & delusional right wing screeds I've ever read.

 

[ch33zw1z]

https://youtu.be/1TWo74L8EiY