That's exactly how it used to be done. The stereotype was that women were slaves to men. This isn't true...men were so much more respectful to women in the early to mid 20th century...
That's exactly how it used to be done. The stereotype was that women were slaves to men. This isn't true...men were so much more respectful to women in the early to mid 20th century...
Or maybe it's just the free market.
A few years back my brother-in-law (who's also a minority), who's in high-level IT stuff, got hired by a big defense contractor about the same time as a woman, for roughly the same position. After several months, it came to light that he was hired at several thousand more (~$10K, I think) than she was, because he had made higher salary demands during negotiations. Of course they had to give her a raise to avoid a discrimination suit, but to my mind, the company wasn't being discriminatory; she was just a poor negotiator. Fair? I don't know.
Where I work, there are 2 assistant managers. One man, one woman. The man gets paid 60 cents more an hour. Why? He's worked there longer, gets the job done faster, and gets the employees out of there faster...which saves the company money.
moshquerade
No Lifer
- Nov 1, 2001
- 61,504
- 12
- 56
moshquerade
No Lifer
- Nov 1, 2001
- 61,504
- 12
- 56
Men that sleep around are called pathetic. No one in the real world is like "Oh man Tim you're so bada$$ you slept with what's her face." Time to turn off MTV.
Fenixgoon
Lifer
- Jun 30, 2003
- 32,048
- 10,822
- 136
complaints that there aren't enough women in (insert) science field. let's face it: guys are more interested in math/science than women are. everyone has the choice to become an engineer or scientist or mathematician. those that are interested go to that field, those not interested go elsewhere. guys simply are more interested in math/science for whatever reason, so we constitute 99.99999% of engineering 
and of course, we could go back to the way we raised kids - girls get barbie and boys get trucks and GI Joe. on an interesting note, all of my family entered the math/science fields - 3 boys = engineers, 2 girls (1 math major, 1 bio major)
and of course, we could go back to the way we raised kids - girls get barbie and boys get trucks and GI Joe. on an interesting note, all of my family entered the math/science fields - 3 boys = engineers, 2 girls (1 math major, 1 bio major)
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
complaints that there aren't enough women in (insert) science field. let's face it: guys are more interested in math/science than women are. everyone has the choice to become an engineer or scientist or mathematician. those that are interested go to that field, those not interested go elsewhere. guys simply are more interested in math/science for whatever reason, so we constitute 99.99999% of engineering
and of course, we could go back to the way we raised kids - girls get barbie and boys get trucks and GI Joe. on an interesting note, all of my family entered the math/science fields - 3 boys = engineers, 2 girls (1 math major, 1 bio major)
Boys don't like GI Joe's and trucks because their parents give it to them...they naturally want them. I do agree with your post though.
Ryan
Lifer
- Oct 31, 2000
- 27,519
- 2
- 81
Are you crazy? Whether you want to admit it or not - women were in the same position as SLAVES before the Feminist Movement. When a woman married a man, she essentially became his property.
Women were taxed, yet they couldn't vote (The whole "Taxation without Representation" crowd only intended for the representation part to include white males).
Throughout most of the US at the early part of the century, women couldn't sit on jurys. women couldn't be sued (their husbands were the ones that had to be sued), they couldn't give court testimony, women couldn't own land (unless it was willed to them by their deceased husband). If you were a wife, ANY legal dispute had to be settled via your husband, not yourself.
Ever hear of the "Rule of Thumb"? In many states, it was legal to beat your wife with a stick, as long as it was no larger than her husbands thumb.
Women didn't recieve the same education - boys were taught the sciences, and girls, well - they were taught how to be good, ignorant wives.
Some of you really have no idea what it was like. I dont' see how there was any distinction between being a slave and being a wife - they both had their freedoms limited in the exact same ways- don't parade around with this "they were treated nicer" bullsh!t.
Ryan
Lifer
- Oct 31, 2000
- 27,519
- 2
- 81
Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
complaints that there aren't enough women in (insert) science field. let's face it: guys are more interested in math/science than women are. everyone has the choice to become an engineer or scientist or mathematician. those that are interested go to that field, those not interested go elsewhere. guys simply are more interested in math/science for whatever reason, so we constitute 99.99999% of engineering
and of course, we could go back to the way we raised kids - girls get barbie and boys get trucks and GI Joe. on an interesting note, all of my family entered the math/science fields - 3 boys = engineers, 2 girls (1 math major, 1 bio major)
Boys don't like GI Joe's and trucks because their parents give it to them...they naturally want them. I do agree with your post though.
Naturally want it? They want these things because our society favors boys acting overty agressive - it pushes for little boys to become masculine. Girls are socialized to become weaker - they're socialized to stay inside of their houses with their mothers, to do "girly" things, like clean, play house, not get dirty, and all that other crap. If anything, women's bodies are FORCED into atrophy by the activities they're socialized into doing.
Until women aren't socialized to be the weaker sex, and men the dominant - there will never be equality.
Socialization plays some part, but physiology plays a much larger role - after all, men and women share a significant number of physical differences, and I'm not just talking about genitalia. Watching my four children (1 son, 3 daughters) grow up, it's clear that much of their preferences was 'pre-programmed', and tends to follow (although not exactly, as evidenced by the varying personalities of my daughters) more general societal trends.
And I don't agree that women are 'socialized to be the weaker sex'; isn't it true that in most mammals, the female is smaller than the male? It's more than just society at work here.
LOL, yes they do and so do escorts.
Why is it that the career women (not all but there are some) give stay at home moms a hard time about being a stay at home mom, and stay at home moms, clash with career moms?
You know its all about choices. My feeling is that no, I don't think women in this Country or others will ever be totally equal to men. Its just not gonna happen. We have come along way... and there are women in powerful positions and in very high executive positions, but they still are not viewed with the same respect as a male counterpart. They also are not paid the same, and that has been proven time and time again by the media and statistical reports. In fact, men can get away with taking time off alot more than a woman can from work.
It will always be harder for women. However, there are our own unique little ways and devices of control and of course that too will never change. LOL
Thats my 02 on the subject. Like it or not.
Ryan
Lifer
- Oct 31, 2000
- 27,519
- 2
- 81
There's much more social conditioning at work than you think. I'm currently in a Women's Studies class, and we've examined the way mothers treat their children of opposite sexes.
Babies are SPONGES. They pick up all kind of signals from everyone and everything around them. There are differences in how baby boys and girls are treated from BIRTH - I remember reading about mothers being more careful, and gentle to their toddlers - they hold them more, and keep them by their side - at the same time, boys were allowed to explore their surroundings, were coddled as much if they cried or were hurt, and their parents offered them more freedom when compared to the girls. This fosters the notion that girls are to be more delicate, and boys more rough and tumble.
The social constructs in the differences on how boys and girls are raised start from birth.
I agree in some ways with what you have said, however women have some very good intellectual skills and are very capable of doing alot of things in the work world that most men do. Physically speaking yes, women are for the most the weaker sex. (although I know a very few who could take a guy on no problem) but most are not built like that. But we live in a world where we use our mind for tasks that involve thinking, problem solving, social skills and such. I am not a womens libber fanatic, and don't think there is anything wrong with opening doors for women, or showing respect in the workplace and giving them opportunities and we do men at the same time. Giving them the same work pay.
There are some women who are very physically capable of mens work labor skills, and then some are not. I think every woman is different. It just recently took the mining companies a big lawsuit to treat the women they hired with respect, give them the adequate facilities they needed and get the men who worked along side them to stop harrassing them.
This type stuff still exists in parts of the US unfortunately. There is still in equality for women.
Look kiddo, I have a BA in sociology, so you don't have to explain all those nifty studies and theories to me. But I've also observed a bunch of kids (4 of my own and 15 neices and nephews) in the real world and over the long term, and the differences are more than just nuture. And if you look at the history of sociology, you can't claim mere 'social constructs' when hundreds of independent societies, never having come in contact with one another, have remarkably similar societal structures among the sexes. You're still failing to acknowledge that men and women are biologically different at very basic levels which go well beyond the genitals.
I'm just as sick of the beer-drinking football-watching sits-on-the-couch-all-day crew as a lot of people are. They are not contributing anything to our society and aren't fit to be a caring spouse.
I'm a man who discovered the wheel and built the Eiffel Tower out of metal and braun. That's what kind of man I am
Your just a woman with a brain a third the size of us men. It's science
Your just a woman with a brain a third the size of us men. It's science
moshquerade
No Lifer
- Nov 1, 2001
- 61,504
- 12
- 56
I agree with that statement. On the other hand if a woman gets trampled on at work or sexually harassed and they sue they are "empowered". If a man gets harassed or sh!t on and they sue they are "sue-happy". There are alot of these double standards and you can find them in any direction. If this one isn't good enough for you then pick another.
I think the better question is do women want equal rights? Honestly, I don't think anyone does. If you want equal rights women should register for the draft if they want to vote. Does getting 6weeks of training and handed an M16 and tossed out on the front lines to sweep for land mines sound like fun to you?
The fact of the matter is we aren't equal. Women don't have to serve in the military because they IN GENERAL are not as strong as a man. They are pound for pound but almost any woman would get overpowered by a 6'6" 280lb buy with a rifle. That's a benefit. Women aren't paid as much as a man for the work they do. Why? Because they might get pregnant and quit. The company is spending alot of money training you and taking a risk not putting a man in the same position. With a man they know with almost 100% certainty that he needs the job to support at least himself if not a family and he is less likely to quit. With women, they get pregnant and quit all of the time. Now, a man can quit for all the same reason women do but what percentage of women get pregnant and quit their job? I don't have figures but I bet it's a very large percent. Is it fair? I dunno but it's capitalism for dang sure.
Bottom line is no one gets treated fairly. Go accuse a woman of sexual harassment and at best it'll get looked into. Accuse a man of sexual harassment and he'll probably be fired or at least not given a raise year after year until he quits. IMO what the focus in this issue needs to be is equalizing what should be equal and recognising our differences and using them to compliment eachother.
Originally posted by: moshquerade
the location of our brains seems to differ also.
I guess not ALL the kids are back in school yet, huh?
eits
Lifer
back home in civility, yeah. it's more common for women to be treated more equally.
in places like the south and midwest (more rural areas or bush states), equality is replaced by social influence or tradition.
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