Do you think that WOMEN are being treated equally with equal rights?

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: myjaja

ex. Some don't get paid the same amount as guys. (even if they have the same positions)

I think some of those pay stats that you see are skewed. A lot of women still choose to take time off work for children. One of my best friend's wife is doing that right now. So, lets say you have a woman that works for two 3 years in a position but then leaves for two years due to the birth of child. After two years she returns to the same job. During that time her male co-workers stayed and now have 5 years experience at the same job and have climbed up the pay scale. Also, at most companies, when you leave like that you often times have to start over at the bottom of the pay scale for that position and for things like vaction time too. This applies to anyone that leaves the company.

Even if you have a situation where a man and woman both have the same number of years experience you can wind up with unequal pay for this very reason. Say you man that has workeda job for 5 straight years and a woman that worked for 3, left for 1 or 2, and then came back and worked 2 more. The woman will likely be further down on the pay scale since she left the company for a while. This isn't discrimination since the same would happen to man that chose to leave the company and then return later.

It's things like that that I think can skew those numbers sometimes. Just my 2 cents.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: sward666

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: sward666
I'll treat you equally as soon as you get in the kitchen and fix me some pie.

you should learn to cook.

I'll treat you as my better as soon you get in the kitchen and fix me some pie.

That's an improvement. Next time it'll be "I'll treat you as my better as soon you show me where the kitchen is so I can fix myself some pie."

Finally, it'll be ""I'll treat you as my better as soon I get you that pie you asked for."

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: sward666

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: sward666
I'll treat you equally as soon as you get in the kitchen and fix me some pie.

you should learn to cook.

I'll treat you as my better as soon you get in the kitchen and fix me some pie.

That's an improvement. Next time it'll be "I'll treat you as my better as soon you show me where the kitchen is so I can fix myself some pie."

Finally, it'll be ""I'll treat you as my better as soon I get you that pie you asked for."

i salute you. :thumbsup:

 

[Bulk Beef]

Fvck that - I'm going out for a beer, and when I get back there better be a pie on the kitchen table.

 

[JoLLyRoGer]

Originally posted by: myjaja
I don't think they are getting treated equally.

Sh*t! Women run this mother-f*cker in this day and age...
That coin-slot between their legs = absolute power! If you're a man, you've never known what it's like to weild that kind of power.

Don't believe me? How easy is it for a woman to get pissed for something dumb at work and then next thing you know, you're being drummed up on some bogus sexual harassment charges??? It's that easy, they point the finger, you're out on your ass.

Ok, still not convinced? What about divorce? Who always gets f*cked on that whole deal? It's not the woman I gaurentee you!! Spousal maintenance, child support, full custody.

A woman has to practically be a homeless drug-dealing serial killer prostitute before any court will award custody to the dad...


Women, equal rights/equal treatment?? Yeah, you could say that, and then some!!

JR..

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: JoLLyRoGer

Originally posted by: myjaja
I don't think they are getting treated equally.

Sh*t! Women run this mother-f*cker in this day and age...
That coin-slot between their legs = absolute power! If you're a man, you've never known what it's like to weild that kind of power.

Don't believe me? How easy is it for a woman to get pissed for something dumb at work and then next thing you know, you're being drummed up on some bogus sexual harassment charges??? It's that easy, they point the finger, you're out on your ass.

Ok, still not convinced? What about divorce? Who always gets f*cked on that whole deal? It's not the woman I gaurentee you!! Spousal maintenance, child support, full custody.

A woman has to practically be a homeless drug-dealing serial killer prostitute before any court will award custody to the dad...


Women, equaly rights/equal treatment?? Yeah, you could say that, and then some!!

JR..

QFT, with a bit less extreme examples. But still very valid.

 

[AreaCode707]

Generally, yeah. I think the balance isn't perfectly even but it tips both ways.

Example:
There are still fewer women in upper management and government.
Men get screwed in divorces.

I think the sexual harrassment thing isn't an inequality - anybody can file a harrassment charge and HR can kick anybody out of a job. Plus I don't think trumped up charges are that common either.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: HotChic
Generally, yeah. I think the balance isn't perfectly even but it tips both ways.

Example:
There are still fewer women in upper management and government.
Men get screwed in divorces.

I think the sexual harrassment thing isn't an inequality - anybody can file a harrassment charge and HR can kick anybody out of a job. Plus I don't think trumped up charges are that common either.

But who is most likely to win in court determines the action of an HR dept.

If a black guy called me a cracker, nothing would ever happen from it. But if I said the "n" word, they'd fire me just to be safe. Why? Because I won't win in court if a case arised from it.

Companies think with the bling, juries think with the sympathy route.

 

[BlancoNino]

Women and Men are treated equally. Of course there are gender differences that will never be overcome. Yes, there are a lot of families where the woman's role is to cook and clean, which would be viewed as sexist (most of the women aren't complaining). But how many families (and I KNOW you've seen plenty of them) have the wife in charge?

"Ask the boss." - Says many husbands, referring to their wives. I've seen many marriages where the woman is to get what she wants, but if the man wants to buy something, he needs to get approval from the wife. I'm not saying it's like this everywhere...but it's true...and neither spouse is complaining.

Also, toss out the MYTH that women make less per dollar than men for doing the same job. If that were true, employers would ONLY HIRE WOMEN SO THEY CAN KEEP THE PAYROLL LOW.

 

[Strk]

I think they're equal under the law, but that doesn't mean inequalities don't happen. Just like any other form of discrimination -- even though the legal groundwork is there, discrimination still happens.

BlancoNino, it's actually an official statistic based on census data and such. However, it will probably slowly change. Women are graduating high school and going to college in greater numbers than men. It is only a matter of time before the figures adjust. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that you could discriminate and not worry about legal ramifications.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: Strk
I think they're equal under the law, but that doesn't mean inequalities don't happen. Just like any other form of discrimination -- even though the legal groundwork is there, discrimination still happens.

BlancoNino, it's actually an official statistic based on census data and such. However, it will probably slowly change. Women are graduating high school and going to college in greater numbers than men. It is only a matter of time before the figures adjust. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that you could discriminate and not worry about legal ramifications.

The census data is too generalized. It doesn't go in depth as to what work they are actually doing (for example, hazardous materials, actual time worked, etc). I've seen studies that have concluded that with those factors, women actually make more.

By the way, I'm also a big advocate of property and ownership rights. So even if it WERE true (highly skepticle) that women made less on the dollar, that should be an employer's right to pay whatever he wants. If not, infringement on his ownership rights.

 

[DaShen]

Women and men are treated differently. It is not an issue of equally, it is an issue of sociology.

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

Originally posted by: Glavinsolo
Women belong at home, if you don't believe me look at the divorce rate, the way children are raised these days and the level of infidelity among couples. Feminists say everyone should be equal. But we are not equal so don't try to force it. Why change something that has been going on for centuries.

http://www.forbes.com/home/2006/08/23/Marriage-Careers-Divorce_cx_mn_land.html

Why should women be at home? :roll: Because it has always been like that? Ridiculous. Why don't you (and I) stay home and be a housedad.

Why did we change slavery that had been going on for centuries?
How are we not equal? You mean physical attributes? Different does not equate unequal. You mean intelligence? Emotions?

Statistically women still get less pay then men in many fields and are often underepresented at the upper corporate level but I would imagine it is better now than at any time in American history.

Edit: Divorce rates are more than a product of the equalization of women's rights in the twentieth century but women who have become empowered economically and are not constricted by the traditional patriarchal/hierarchal social dynamics are not getting married as early and are getting divorced more readily (and the reverse is also true).

Should women have to get jobs that include hazardous physical aspects by meeting the same criteria as men? I say yes. If the average women cannot lift a hundred pounds (just a hypothetical) then she shouldn't be in a job where that is a requirement (firefighting). This doesn't make her less than just different.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33

Originally posted by: Glavinsolo
Women belong at home, if you don't believe me look at the divorce rate, the way children are raised these days and the level of infidelity among couples. Feminists say everyone should be equal. But we are not equal so don't try to force it. Why change something that has been going on for centuries.

http://www.forbes.com/home/2006/08/23/Marriage-Careers-Divorce_cx_mn_land.html

Why should women be at home? :roll: Because it has always been like that? Ridiculous. Why don't you (and I) stay home and be a housedad.

Why did we change slavery that had been going on for centuries?
How are we not equal? You mean physical attributes? Different does not equate unequal. You mean intelligence? Emotions?

Statistically women still get less pay then men in many fields and are often underepresented at the upper corporate level but I would imagine it is better now than at any time in American history.

Not true, read above post.

Underepresented? Are they qualified? Are they applying? Are they willing to do that work, or would a lot of women rather not move up to a more stressful job so that she can stay home more often? Call me a sexist, but women CHOOSE not to do these things.

 

[43st]

At our company women make 10-20k less per year than men in the same position. I'm in the engineering department but it's the same across all departments.

The women here also don't control men with their coin slot like JoLLyRoGer so ignorantly stated.

 

[DukeN]

Amazed at all the people that answered yes. Cluelessness FTL!

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: Thera
At our company women make 10-20k less per year than men in the same position. I'm in the engineering department but it's the same across all departments.

The women here also don't control men with their coin slot like JoLLyRoGer so ignorantly stated.

Interesting. Why don't they hire just women if it's the exact same position and they are doing just as hard and good of work? There is obviously more to it than that.

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: Thera
At our company women make 10-20k less per year than men in the same position. I'm in the engineering department but it's the same across all departments.

The women here also don't control men with their coin slot like JoLLyRoGer so ignorantly stated.

LOL... looks like your company needs to create or re-do their pay scales. A lot of companies, including one I have worked for, have pay grades. Each position is assigned possible pay grades. Yeah, there is room to move up within these grades, but I don't think one person could ever be 20K above someone else in the same position due to the grade limitations.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: DukeN
Amazed at all the people that answered yes. Cluelessness FTL!

Willingness to accept anything that's thrown at them by power-hungry lobbyists FTL!

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: DukeN
Amazed at all the people that answered yes. Cluelessness FTL!

OK, how about you contribute something to support your postion then? Backing up your statements FTW!

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33

Originally posted by: Glavinsolo
Women belong at home, if you don't believe me look at the divorce rate, the way children are raised these days and the level of infidelity among couples. Feminists say everyone should be equal. But we are not equal so don't try to force it. Why change something that has been going on for centuries.

http://www.forbes.com/home/2006/08/23/Marriage-Careers-Divorce_cx_mn_land.html

Why should women be at home? :roll: Because it has always been like that? Ridiculous. Why don't you (and I) stay home and be a housedad.

Why did we change slavery that had been going on for centuries?
How are we not equal? You mean physical attributes? Different does not equate unequal. You mean intelligence? Emotions?

Statistically women still get less pay then men in many fields and are often underepresented at the upper corporate level but I would imagine it is better now than at any time in American history.

Not true, read above post.

Underepresented? Are they qualified? Are they applying? Are they willing to do that work, or would a lot of women rather not move up to a more stressful job so that she can stay home more often? Call me a sexist, but women CHOOSE not to do these things.

You are absolutely correct many women do choose to stay at home or raise their children but that does not change anything in my post. Are you implying that infidelity is because of women working? Ridiculous. You also didn't really address the points in my post. I am not calling you sexist, but am trying to point out the double standard you seem to be applying based upon patriarchal/hierarchal norms that have been traditionally accepted in the west (in large part to the patriarchal/hierachal church fathers and power.

To blame divorce rates on women having equal rights or equal access/pay to jobs that can be performed equally is ridiculous. Women couldn't vote until 1920. 1920. That weren't allowed to vote for the previous centuries (because they were hysterical or not intelligent enough or subservient to man).

I am an advocate for equal access and equal choice and I am an advocate for equal testing standards for hazardous or physically demanding work. I am not really a feminist but men and women in my mind are "different" but equal.

Edit: Arggh changed separate to different. :laugh:

 

[Glavinsolo]

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33

Originally posted by: Glavinsolo
Women belong at home, if you don't believe me look at the divorce rate, the way children are raised these days and the level of infidelity among couples. Feminists say everyone should be equal. But we are not equal so don't try to force it. Why change something that has been going on for centuries.

http://www.forbes.com/home/2006/08/23/Marriage-Careers-Divorce_cx_mn_land.html

Why should women be at home? :roll: Because it has always been like that? Ridiculous. Why don't you (and I) stay home and be a housedad.

As soon as you find a way to become pregnant I'll be glad to answer this but for the meantime we are better able to provide for the family unit away and in the market, women are better able to provide for the family at home.

Why did we change slavery that had been going on for centuries?
We realized that you can not put a price on human life.
How are we not equal?
Women are structured to being more of a caretaker. Although they can be hard working it is best for a social environment that they raise the children and manage the household.
You mean physical attributes?
Different does not equate unequal. You mean intelligence? Emotions?

Statistically women still get less pay then men in many fields and are often underepresented at the upper corporate level but I would imagine it is better now than at any time in American history.

Society's views on a household are how much money the family has. You are structured into a class system and have a tax bracket tied to your life. Current society is consumer driven. Society used to be driven by religion then it was by government now consumerism. This leads up to the 2 income household. Something which is seen as a need to function in a consumer driven society. However, the price for this is happiness which is extremely lowered by a couple who are both career centered. I'd rather be happy and living adequately than have a broken marriage and money to spend on crap I probably don't need.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

women *are* different, some positive others negative

the trick is to acknowledge them and treat them respectfully

 

[BlancoNino]

I think that's a good point about career's and marraige. If one is the provider, and the other works part-time and spends more time at home, then there are needs that can both be filled that are given to eachother.

 

[Leros]

I wonder if I can say this without being flamed for it. Women and men are not completely equal, fact of life. There are some important differences. Women are different emotionally and phyiscally. Women have to deal with child birth, men don't. Men are typically stronger than women. Etc etc. One is not better or worse, but we each of our weaknesses and strengths.

I don't know how workplaces deal with 6 month maternity leave and stuff. If your job is important, you should not be able to leave for more than a few weeks without causing problems. For instance, the place where my dad used to work had a lot of problems in his department because the women often took leave (or quit) when they got pregnant. Something like 50% of the women quit when they had kids. Why would you hire a person that, statistically, has a 50% chance of quitting when they have kids? That doesn't make much sense. But of course, the other 50% were great employees, so what do you do about that?

I also recall a story on ATOT about a woman who used to leave work early and even skip days of work to take care of her kids. I think he said she only worked 60% (something like that) of the time but got paid the same wages as people who worked 100% of the time.