Do you think polygamy should be legalized?

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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,226
5,802
126
Originally posted by: dawp
Originally posted by: sandorski
Leave as is: Illegal, but turn a half-blind eye to Religious nutters. When they step out of line, Enforce the Law.

why? consenting adults should be able to do as the please.

There are limitations. Besides, very few want to do this, especially women. The only women in numbers who are interested in such an arrangement were raised to think that it's is Normal. They were also raised to think of themselves as Lesser than Men.

"Consent" can be a fickle thing when a segment of Society is raised to think they are Second Class.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,302
144
106
cultures have lived with (and made work) polygamous relationships for 100s of years (maybe 1000s im no historian)

it is possible.

We are growing and learning in a western civilization (post modern "Nuclear Family")Because of this we know next to nothing of how other cultures in previous generations made "polygamy" work. The "Nuclear Family" is our experience, it is our model. But other family models out there did work and in some places they still do work.

The issue would be complex, and the legal system we have today would be turned over on its head...but at a fundamental level people can and should be able to form these relationships because they do.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
Health care has been brought up here. If doctors were knocked off their pedistals . We could do way better. Cost of health care is crazy . And its targetingthe old.

SOCIALIZE LAW AND Medical. That would be a hugh step in right direction. Doctors make way to many mistakes to be held up high. 250,000 killed every year threw mistakes. If I accidently run someone over . Thats not the end of it . I go to jail also .
 

thirtythree

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2001
8,680
3
0
Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Originally posted by: thirtythree
Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
I think only 1 poster had anything worth while . If ya have the polygamy gene . Than you should have same rights as gays. Same as the killer gene . the Lieing Gene The stealing gene . If we have genes that makes same sex look good . It stands to reason these other genes exist . Were are these peoples rights. They can't help who they are . When I say same rights . I mean Killers kill . They can't help it poor dears. You can't argue for the gay gene and forget the rest . That means your being selective and thats not equal rights.

Because stealing, lying (in some cases), and killing infringes on the rights of an unwilling participant... Polygamy is a consenting relationship.

That still doesn't change the fact that they can't help themseves. We all know right from wrong or we should . But once ya start making exceptions to the rule . GAY gene . Than you show prejudice. YOU say draw the line somewhere . But you have the choice . Isay If these genes exist. Than prejudice should not be shown . Just get rid of law and order. That fixes everthing. It really wouldn't be much differant than what we already have.

So the spreading of sexual diesease is OK in your book. Doesn't that infringe. I mean Doing another guy has to be dirty stinky business. So disease is likely. So ya see unwilling participant also apply to the gay community.

The spreading of sexual disease causes harm, and people don't generally consent to receiving an STD from someone. If they choose to have sex with someone they don't know well without taking precautions, then they assume a certain level of risk. Someone who has an STD and doesn't tell their partner beforehand is behaving unethically. Is it generally possible to prosecute this sort of thing? Probably not, but that doesn't mean it's "OK." I can't quite make sense of the rest of that paragraph.

It's debatable that people can't help themselves from committing a crime -- in fact, people attracted to the same sex can probably resist acting on that too. However, same-sex relationships don't cause harm to anyone, so there's no reason to prevent them from acting on it. Now, even if people can't control themselves, we can still punish them for their crimes to prevent other such acts. Even in a determinist world, it would make sense to have laws against crimes to prevent them from taking place, even if there's no personal responsibility.
 

thirtythree

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2001
8,680
3
0
Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Health care has been brought up here. If doctors were knocked off their pedistals . We could do way better. Cost of health care is crazy . And its targetingthe old.

SOCIALIZE LAW AND Medical. That would be a hugh step in right direction. Doctors make way to many mistakes to be held up high. 250,000 killed every year threw mistakes. If I accidently run someone over . Thats not the end of it . I go to jail also .

...did I wander into a different thread?
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: thirtythree
Originally posted by: Perknose
If you make polygamy legal, then YOU HAVE to deal with all these legal ramifications.

One way or the other, YOU JUST DO.

If, for instance, you allow polygamy but say that NOTHING WILL CHANGE LEGALLY, WHICH IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING when you say you would tie NO legal rights to it, then you would have women as wives having children with men who have ZERO legal obligation to support them at all.

Only the first wife and her children would inherit anything or have any legal rights if the husband died.

Nice try, Chief, but YOU have obviously not thought this through even one little bit.
:roll:



Edit: Damn, but your reply is one endlessly stupid statement. What exactly would YOU do, Chief, with a family where the first wife and her children with a guy had health insurance under the husband's job but the second and third wife and the children he fathered with them, under the same roof, didn't?

Well?

Do you even stop to think before you post?

ALL the many other LEGAL ramification are endless and varied and, one way or the other, WOULD have to be dealt with and WOULD incur a legal nightmare, whether you think so or not.

Damn, you're dumb. :|

First of all, don't unmarried fathers have to pay child support -- or fathers with multiple children from multiple partners? If not, that's a pretty sweet deal. If so, your third paragraph makes no sense. Anyway, this is happening now whether polygamy is legal or not, as are the other scenarios you've mentioned. Current polygamists (that I've heard of) seem to be doing fine, and it's not like there's going to be a huge surge in the number of polygamists if it were legal. Personally I've never heard polygamists call for greater rights, but I haven't followed it that closely. If they have been, we should get cracking on figure out the legal aspects of polygamous marriage.

Shhhh, don't try talking sense, just let the idiot ramble without thinking.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
That BS and you know it . Guy has boy friend . Has sex . Gets disease goes home does wife. Tell me all about it.
 

thirtythree

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2001
8,680
3
0
Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
That BS and you know it . Guy has boy friend . Has sex . Gets disease goes home does wife. Tell me all about it.

:s

I have no idea what you're saying, seriously.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,302
144
106
Originally posted by: thirtythree
Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
That BS and you know it . Guy has boy friend . Has sex . Gets disease goes home does wife. Tell me all about it.

:s

I have no idea what you're saying, seriously.

maybe its leftover election meltdown.

??

He's lost me too.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,357
8,446
126
no because you have to find something to do with all the single men or they will do something, usually not good, themselves.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,302
144
106
Originally posted by: ElFenix
no because you have to find something to do with all the single men or they will do something, usually not good, themselves.

legalize both gay marriage and polygamy!

problem solved!! :)
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,226
5,802
126
Originally posted by: OrByte
cultures have lived with (and made work) polygamous relationships for 100s of years (maybe 1000s im no historian)

it is possible.

We are growing and learning in a western civilization (post modern "Nuclear Family")Because of this we know next to nothing of how other cultures in previous generations made "polygamy" work. The "Nuclear Family" is our experience, it is our model. But that isn't to say there are other models out there that did work and in some places they still do work.

The issue would be complex, and the legal system we have today would be turned over on its head...but at a fundamental level people can and should be able to form these relationships because they do.

Nothing stops people from forming such Relationships. They just don't get Legal benefit. It certainly is a Gray area, you gotta weigh the benefit to Society either way(Pro/Con). Personally I think the Cons of Polygamy outweigh the benefits. The Pros for Same Sex Marriage outweigh the Cons.

Polygamy introduces many elements into Society that cause longterm problems:

1) Lack of Genetic Diversity. Probably the best reason to not allow it. A mentally and physically healthy Society needs to avoid this.

2) Changes the Social Order. The Wealthy will become Babe Magnets, literally. A Sub-Culture of Men may form unable to attract a Mate. This will cause conflict within Society which will often result in violence and some of that violence could be widespread.(latter part is rather over dramatic, but violent tendancy will increase).

3) In a Modern Prosperous Society, there really is no good reasons why Polygamy is a Benefit to Society. So why have it at all?
 

thirtythree

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2001
8,680
3
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: OrByte
cultures have lived with (and made work) polygamous relationships for 100s of years (maybe 1000s im no historian)

it is possible.

We are growing and learning in a western civilization (post modern "Nuclear Family")Because of this we know next to nothing of how other cultures in previous generations made "polygamy" work. The "Nuclear Family" is our experience, it is our model. But that isn't to say there are other models out there that did work and in some places they still do work.

The issue would be complex, and the legal system we have today would be turned over on its head...but at a fundamental level people can and should be able to form these relationships because they do.

Nothing stops people from forming such Relationships. They just don't get Legal benefit. It certainly is a Gray area, you gotta weigh the benefit to Society either way(Pro/Con). Personally I think the Cons of Polygamy outweigh the benefits. The Pros for Same Sex Marriage outweigh the Cons.

Polygamy introduces many elements into Society that cause longterm problems:

1) Lack of Genetic Diversity. Probably the best reason to not allow it. A mentally and physically healthy Society needs to avoid this.

2) Changes the Social Order. The Wealthy will become Babe Magnets, literally. A Sub-Culture of Men may form unable to attract a Mate. This will cause conflict within Society which will often result in violence and some of that violence could be widespread.(latter part is rather over dramatic, but violent tendancy will increase).

3) In a Modern Prosperous Society, there really is no good reasons why Polygamy is a Benefit to Society. So why have it at all?

I think you, and others, are assuming there's going to be a huge explosion in polygamy if it were legal. Do you really think this is the case? I suspect that mostly it would be people already engaging in polygamy who would benefit.
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
11,347
2,709
136
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: dawp
Originally posted by: sandorski
Leave as is: Illegal, but turn a half-blind eye to Religious nutters. When they step out of line, Enforce the Law.

why? consenting adults should be able to do as the please.

There are limitations. Besides, very few want to do this, especially women. The only women in numbers who are interested in such an arrangement were raised to think that it's is Normal. They were also raised to think of themselves as Lesser than Men.

"Consent" can be a fickle thing when a segment of Society is raised to think they are Second Class.

i think if someone want to enter into such a marriage, either Polygyny, polyandry, group or line (no actual examples except in sci-fi) the government should not get involved.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,226
5,802
126
Originally posted by: thirtythree
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: OrByte
cultures have lived with (and made work) polygamous relationships for 100s of years (maybe 1000s im no historian)

it is possible.

We are growing and learning in a western civilization (post modern "Nuclear Family")Because of this we know next to nothing of how other cultures in previous generations made "polygamy" work. The "Nuclear Family" is our experience, it is our model. But that isn't to say there are other models out there that did work and in some places they still do work.

The issue would be complex, and the legal system we have today would be turned over on its head...but at a fundamental level people can and should be able to form these relationships because they do.

Nothing stops people from forming such Relationships. They just don't get Legal benefit. It certainly is a Gray area, you gotta weigh the benefit to Society either way(Pro/Con). Personally I think the Cons of Polygamy outweigh the benefits. The Pros for Same Sex Marriage outweigh the Cons.

Polygamy introduces many elements into Society that cause longterm problems:

1) Lack of Genetic Diversity. Probably the best reason to not allow it. A mentally and physically healthy Society needs to avoid this.

2) Changes the Social Order. The Wealthy will become Babe Magnets, literally. A Sub-Culture of Men may form unable to attract a Mate. This will cause conflict within Society which will often result in violence and some of that violence could be widespread.(latter part is rather over dramatic, but violent tendancy will increase).

3) In a Modern Prosperous Society, there really is no good reasons why Polygamy is a Benefit to Society. So why have it at all?

I think you, and others, are assuming there's going to be a huge explosion in polygamy if it were legal. Do you really think this is the case? I suspect that mostly it would be people already engaging in polygamy who would benefit.

Not immediately, but in time as it becomes Normalized it will become more common.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,302
144
106
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: thirtythree
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: OrByte
cultures have lived with (and made work) polygamous relationships for 100s of years (maybe 1000s im no historian)

it is possible.

We are growing and learning in a western civilization (post modern "Nuclear Family")Because of this we know next to nothing of how other cultures in previous generations made "polygamy" work. The "Nuclear Family" is our experience, it is our model. But that isn't to say there are other models out there that did work and in some places they still do work.

The issue would be complex, and the legal system we have today would be turned over on its head...but at a fundamental level people can and should be able to form these relationships because they do.

Nothing stops people from forming such Relationships. They just don't get Legal benefit. It certainly is a Gray area, you gotta weigh the benefit to Society either way(Pro/Con). Personally I think the Cons of Polygamy outweigh the benefits. The Pros for Same Sex Marriage outweigh the Cons.

Polygamy introduces many elements into Society that cause longterm problems:

1) Lack of Genetic Diversity. Probably the best reason to not allow it. A mentally and physically healthy Society needs to avoid this.

2) Changes the Social Order. The Wealthy will become Babe Magnets, literally. A Sub-Culture of Men may form unable to attract a Mate. This will cause conflict within Society which will often result in violence and some of that violence could be widespread.(latter part is rather over dramatic, but violent tendancy will increase).

3) In a Modern Prosperous Society, there really is no good reasons why Polygamy is a Benefit to Society. So why have it at all?

I think you, and others, are assuming there's going to be a huge explosion in polygamy if it were legal. Do you really think this is the case? I suspect that mostly it would be people already engaging in polygamy who would benefit.

Not immediately, but in time as it becomes Normalized it will become more common.
Good points but I think society has a way of marginalizing these things. I don't see polygamy ever being "normalized" or "more common." But who knows....maybe we are all missing out! :)

 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,582
2,817
136
Originally posted by: sandorski
Polygamy introduces many elements into Society that cause longterm problems:

1) Lack of Genetic Diversity. Probably the best reason to not allow it. A mentally and physically healthy Society needs to avoid this.

You're assuming that one man is going to have multiple wives who only bear his children. Hell, in today's world a man isn't guaranteed to have ONE wife to only bear his children. And a woman with multiple husbands can only have children so often. If anything, polygamy may assist the genetic strength of homo sapiens. Biologically, we've become somewhat genetically deficient. Due to political/economic/religous, etc reasons people who should not be procreating due to genetic flaws, are. Our modern medicine keeps people alive who should die and helps people reproduce who shouldn't. Scientists say that humanity has reached a point where we have ceased to evolve. Maybe that's our own damn fault...

2) Changes the Social Order. The Wealthy will become Babe Magnets, literally. A Sub-Culture of Men may form unable to attract a Mate. This will cause conflict within Society which will often result in violence and some of that violence could be widespread.(latter part is rather over dramatic, but violent tendancy will increase).

The 'wealthy' won't be babe magnets, the genetically superior will. Overall though, if spouses in the plurality are allowed to leave a marriage at will, the balance should not be tipped in favor (or against) either sex. The only reason you can observe the 'lost boys' of existing polygamist societies is because the wives are NOT allowed free will. Current polygamists get it wrong by using arranged marriage.

3) In a Modern Prosperous Society, there really is no good reasons why Polygamy is a Benefit to Society. So why have it at all?

This is true only if you believe 'polygamy' means 'Fundamentalist LDS'.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: spidey07
The trend IS NOT toward legalizing gay marriage. In fact the trend is strongly against it. It is your very question as to why the trend is strongly against gay marriage as that line of thinking leads to marrying whatever the hell you want. That is wrong. So very, very wrong.

Polygamy, gay marriage, having kids out of wedlock are all the same - they are wrong. Do not allow this behavior or line of thinking.

Why are they wrong? Because you say so?
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
60
91
Polygamy is not the same issue as gay marriage. Banning gay marriage deprives gay Americans of the same right as other citizens to marry one other person. Polygamy is not legal anywhere in the Union. Whether or not you agree with that ban, it applies universally and equally to all citizens so it does not fall under the equal protection clause of the U.S. or any state Constitution.

Originally posted by: spidey07

The trend IS NOT toward legalizing gay marriage. In fact the trend is strongly against it. It is your very question as to why the trend is strongly against gay marriage as that line of thinking leads to marrying whatever the hell you want. That is wrong. So very, very wrong.

Polygamy, gay marriage, having kids out of wedlock are all the same - they are wrong. Do not allow this behavior or line of thinking.
.
.
Nobody is born gay. It's a freaking choice. And if you're born gay that is natural selection saying "you don't get to play in the gene pool or influence a child". aka, marriage.

Thanks for all the hard facts and documentation to support your vapor headed bigotry. :thumbsdown: :frown:
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,752
2,525
126
The main problem with polygamy today in the US is polygamists have a very high proportion of welfare cheats. Husband is legally married to wife #1, all the kids from the rest of his "spiritual wives" on are ADC.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,226
5,802
126
Originally posted by: sactoking
Originally posted by: sandorski
Polygamy introduces many elements into Society that cause longterm problems:

1) Lack of Genetic Diversity. Probably the best reason to not allow it. A mentally and physically healthy Society needs to avoid this.

You're assuming that one man is going to have multiple wives who only bear his children. Hell, in today's world a man isn't guaranteed to have ONE wife to only bear his children. And a woman with multiple husbands can only have children so often. If anything, polygamy may assist the genetic strength of homo sapiens. Biologically, we've become somewhat genetically deficient. Due to political/economic/religous, etc reasons people who should not be procreating due to genetic flaws, are. Our modern medicine keeps people alive who should die and helps people reproduce who shouldn't. (1) Scientists say that humanity has reached a point where we have ceased to evolve. Maybe that's our own damn fault...

2) Changes the Social Order. The Wealthy will become Babe Magnets, literally. A Sub-Culture of Men may form unable to attract a Mate. This will cause conflict within Society which will often result in violence and some of that violence could be widespread.(latter part is rather over dramatic, but violent tendancy will increase).

The 'wealthy' won't be babe magnets, (2)the genetically superior will. Overall though, if spouses in the plurality are allowed to leave a marriage at will, the balance should not be tipped in favor (or against) either sex. The only reason you can observe the 'lost boys' of existing polygamist societies is because the wives are NOT allowed free will. Current polygamists get it wrong by using arranged marriage.

3) In a Modern Prosperous Society, there really is no good reasons why Polygamy is a Benefit to Society. So why have it at all?

This is true only if you believe 'polygamy' means 'Fundamentalist LDS'.

1) Source

2) Who determines Genetic Superiority and why would that motivate those seeking a Mate?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: ElFenix
no because you have to find something to do with all the single men or they will do something, usually not good, themselves.

Why does everyone always assume that polygamy is only one man with multiple wives? That's polygyny. Polygamy includes all forms of plural marriage.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,226
5,802
126
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: ElFenix
no because you have to find something to do with all the single men or they will do something, usually not good, themselves.

Why does everyone always assume that polygamy is only one man with multiple wives? That's polygyny. Polygamy includes all forms of plural marriage.

I dunno, but I did too. :( Probably because it's the dominant form.

Ultimately, we should probably just get rid of Marriage altogether, at least as a Legal entity. I'm just unsure that Society is ready for that kind of change yet.
 

thirtythree

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2001
8,680
3
0
Originally posted by: Harvey
Polygamy is not the same issue as gay marriage. Banning gay marriage deprives gay Americans of the same right as other citizens to marry one other person. Polygamy is not legal anywhere in the Union. Whether or not you agree with that ban, it applies universally and equally to all citizens so it does not fall under the equal protection clause of the U.S. or any state Constitution.

That sounds an awful lot like the line "Gays have the same rights as straight people -- to marry someone of the opposite sex."