Do you support more gun control?

[Rainsford]

The liberals are such hypocrites, the fat rosie odonnell opposes guns yet she has a bodyguard who carries a gun but this is the kind of stupidity that you get from liberals

Wouldn't she be a hypocrite if SHE carried a gun while opposing them? Her bodyguard is presumably a professional, not some average Joe with a gun.

Besides, since when did Rosie O'Donnell become the spokeswomen for what all liberals everywhere think? And if you get to pick for the left, I think I'll pick Ted Nugent as the spokesman for the right

 

[Incorruptible]

Wouldn't she be a hypocrite if SHE carried a gun while opposing them? Her bodyguard is presumably a professional, not some average Joe with a gun.

Besides, since when did Rosie O'Donnell become the spokeswomen for what all liberals everywhere think? And if you get to pick for the left, I think I'll pick Ted Nugent as the spokesman for the right

She is still a fat clown, I never said she is the spokeswomen, she doesn't represent all liberals, besides Conservatives are always right

 

[blankslate]

But she rails against guns and rants about how there so bad yet she has a bodyguard who carries a gun and she benefits from that

She can't change the laws by herself. It'd be worse if *she* as a "gun-hater" went out and purchased a gun and carried with minimal training. Having a body-guard who is armed? Well the guy (hopefully) is at least as trained as any Police officer or former Combat Arms MoS military veteran and knows better when and how to use a weapon than many of the yahoos in this P&N forum.

It might be as much for his protection as hers since he's guarding her and asking someone who is keeping you safe to "hey, leave that firearm at home" is even more of a douche-bag move than what you're trying to ascribe to a person who wants/needs a bodyguard.

 

[Moonbeam]

I'm a liberal yet I like to spend the occasional afternoon plinking.

I realize that the toothpaste is out of the tube so to speak.

In a perfect world there would be some sci-fi test to make sure that some people don't turn into blithering morons around guns...

like this guy... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8wZU7edaz8

or these people... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uqD8Ja6IZ0&feature=related

before giving them a CCW.

Seeing as how that isn't possible. I live with it as being shot by someone with a gun is rather unlikely unless you live in a bad place or you are just an inveterate asshole who provokes people without reason.

People with back bones can be assholes too.

 

[blankslate]

People with back bones can be assholes too.

wai.. wha..? I don't think that's what the word means....

 

[irishScott]

I think there's cultural differences at play here too
For those of us from the rest of the Western countries the thought of having to strap a gun to yourself to go outside is very bizarre
Fear is the first thing that comes to mind
Look at it this way, when we think of the death penalty in countries like Iran, China, you think its because of their governments. That if the people had a choice they would vote no to capital punishment
Yet, even with the US's total mistrust of their gov, the people would actually vote to give the state the power to kill them.

I think the bolded is a key difference in perception. I don't "have to" strap a gun on when I go out the door, I "want to". I've gone most of my life without carrying and felt perfectly fine outside of 3 or 4 close calls. But having a gun in those 3 or 4 wouldn't have changed how I handled them.

The only cultural difference I can infer from the perception is that citizens of other western nations value their self-determination less. Personally, I want the freedom and responsibility to defend myself with lethal force should the need arise. I don't expect the need to arise or seek it, but I take pride in being proficient at that level of self-sufficiency. I also take confidence from the knowledge that in the unlikely even of a violent encounter, I have capabilities and options the aggressor may not.

I guess the primary difference, at least as far as I and some people I know are concerned, can be summed up as "we want the responsibility". Not many people say that, apparently even less so outside the US.

As for the death penalty thing, lack of faith in our legislators != lack of faith in our judicial system. I think our court system is about as good as one could realistically hope for in most cases.

 

[monovillage]

Sociopaths get their own category

No insult intended I'm sure.

 

[monovillage]

She is still a fat clown, I never said she is the spokeswomen, she doesn't represent all liberals, besides Conservatives are always right

I think the story about Dianne Feinstein is much more applicable. Here's a woman opposed to gun rights for the little people (her constituents) but who uses her power, money and political influence to get a carry permit issued to her in San Francisco when she was mayor.

"Feinstein is an anti-gun Senator who still somehow found the fortitude to obtain for herself a concealed firearms carry permit, a privilege she wants to deny others. 27 April 1995:

Less than twenty years ago I was the target of a terrorist group. It was the New World Liberation Front. They blew up power stations and put a bomb at my home when my husband was dying of cancer. And the bomb didn't detonate. [...] I was very lucky. But, I thought of what might have happened. Later the same group shot out all the windows of my home. [...] And, I know the sense of helplessness that people feel. I know the urge to arm yourself because that's what I did. I was trained in firearms. I'd walk to the hospital when my husband was sick. I carried a concealed weapon. I made the determination that if somebody was going to try to take me out, I was going to take them with me."

http://www.nndb.com/people/535/000023466/

 

[Ackmed]

I personally do, look at how easy it is for people to get a gun. The school shooting in California was done with a legally obtained gun. Same with the Arizona shooting, same with the VT shooting.

Guess what, most crimes are done with an illegally bought gun. So your logic fails.

 

[Incorruptible]

I think the story about Dianne Feinstein is much more applicable. Here's a woman opposed to gun rights for the little people (her constituents) but who uses her power, money and political influence to get a carry permit issued to her in San Francisco when she was mayor.

"Feinstein is an anti-gun Senator who still somehow found the fortitude to obtain for herself a concealed firearms carry permit, a privilege she wants to deny others. 27 April 1995:



http://www.nndb.com/people/535/000023466/

She is definitely much more applicable and shows the hypocrisy of liberals

 

[cybrsage]

I think the story about Dianne Feinstein is much more applicable. Here's a woman opposed to gun rights for the little people (her constituents) but who uses her power, money and political influence to get a carry permit issued to her in San Francisco when she was mayor.

"Feinstein is an anti-gun Senator who still somehow found the fortitude to obtain for herself a concealed firearms carry permit, a privilege she wants to deny others. 27 April 1995:



http://www.nndb.com/people/535/000023466/

It is because of a genetic defect, a broken dopamine receptor (specifically DRD4). Not her fault, she was born broken and therefor is a liberal. We need to fund genetics better so we can sure such things.

 

[Incorruptible]

It is because of a genetic defect, a broken dopamine receptor (specifically DRD4). Not her fault, she was born broken and therefor is a liberal. We need to fund genetics better so we can sure such things.

Agreed. Liberals cause many of the problems that we are facing right now

 

[DucatiMonster696]

What I want to know is, if liberals are so rabidly in favor of gun control, why does a typical poll show a little over half the forum are liberals, but a poll like this has 80% against gun control?

It certainly is not reflected in those they elect to congress or the presidency.

 

[Budarow2]

The American Dream

ROFL...no punk is gonna try and steal this grandma's train pass!!

 

[cybrsage]

Rosie demanded that her armed body guard for her kid be allowed to carry a gun into the gun free school zone. The principal told her to no, only the police can do that. For being anti-gun, she sure demands others allow her to have guns for protection.

 

[BoberFett]

When it comes to gun control, my overriding feeling about it is mainly that pro-gun advocates almost always seem to be INCREDIBLY irritating. The super classy insinuation that gun control means you're pro-rape is a great example, but far from the only one.

As opposed to the very intelligent and classy position by anti-gun nuts that gun owners are paranoid and using the weapon to make up for their micro-penis.

You're very sad Rainsford. You try to come off as so even keel and reasonable, then you let this kind of garbage slip showing your true colors.

 

[Moonbeam]

As opposed to the very intelligent and classy position by anti-gun nuts that gun owners are paranoid and using the weapon to make up for their micro-penis.

You're very sad Rainsford. You try to come off as so even keel and reasonable, then you let this kind of garbage slip showing your true colors.

Why is it garbage?

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

I'd be more comfortable with gun-owners if they'd just admit the fears that drive them to want to own a gun.

fear? i don't own a gun because of fear. i live in one of the safest towns in the state.
i own a gun because i can and because it's fucking cool.

 

[cybrsage]

I like gun ownership because it makes libs upset.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

My point was that this METHOD of argument is faulty. I just threw together some quick examples of the style, I wasn't making an actual argument with any of them.

I'll use the example you provided though..."It's basically the same as those in support of the death penalty having some responsibility when one innocent man is executed." The problems is that your statement is not exactly wrong, it's the conclusion that's often implied with statements like this that is wrong.

Yes, if you support the death penalty, you DO bear some responsibility when an innocent person is executed. But the only reason anyone says things like this is that they silently add "...therefore you're wrong to support the death penalty." It's a bad argument, since no position is completely without negative side effects. And while those side effects should certainly play a part in forming an opinion, they shouldn't be the ONLY thing that's considered. Not to mention that these specific situations are almost always framed as emotional appeals, which tends to cloud the issue even more.

The point gun supporters are trying to make via this argument isn't one of finding a solution that will result in no bad actions for anyone far down the line. That is, of course, impossible. It's a matter of where responsibility is drawn, and of direct and indirect consequences. A drunk driver kills someone because the liquor store sold him a bottle of Jack, sure, but personal responsibility takes precedent. Ultimately it is the drunk driver at fault, being the instigator. In the case of a person being mugged, raped, or murdered on the streets of whatever liberaltopia, there is a two-fold responsibility, on the party that forced violence onto an innocent, and the party that forced inability to defend oneself onto an innocent. Personally, I don't care if a lack of gun regulation leads to greatly increased rates of murder. It would be bad, of course, but the burden of guilt lies entirely on the murderers committing their violent acts. When a person is forced to not defend himself, the government has direct responsibility in his death.

 

[Incorruptible]

Rosie demanded that her armed body guard for her kid be allowed to carry a gun into the gun free school zone. The principal told her to no, only the police can do that. For being anti-gun, she sure demands others allow her to have guns for protection.

And this is why the liberals are such hypocrites

 

[davmat787]

And this is why the liberals are such hypocrites

No, it is an example of someone specific being a hypocrite. One of the biggest sources of annoyance on this forum, for me at least, are these type of bold statements that all liberals are hypocrites, or all conservatives are racist, or anyone owning a gun is paranoid.

These kind of blanket statements don't lead to any type of honest discussion and usually lead to a flamefest.

 

[monovillage]

fear? i don't own a gun because of fear. i live in one of the safest towns in the state.
i own a gun because i can and because it's fucking cool.

OK, this wins best answer. Case closed.

 

[MrColin]

I'm against any further restrictions on gun ownership except maybe an IQ test.

 

[OCGuy]

You cant ban guns, retarted poll is retarded.