Do you see Acura and Lexus in the same class?

[GTaudiophile]

Acura is not in the same league as Lexus and neither are in the same league as BMW/Mercedes/Audi.

Everyone knows, if you buy a Lexus, it's because you're not rich enough to pay for German "reliability" or you just don't have a passion for driving. If you have a passion and really have money, you buy German. Buying a Lexus is like buying a pretender to the throne. Lexus will never be more than glorified Camry's/Toyotas. But they deserve mad props for their reliability and profit per automobile. Oh, and it's because they do NOT build cars that push the envelope of speed and agility that they are able to build such reliable machines.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Acura is not in the same league as Lexus and neither are in the same league as BMW/Mercedes/Audi.

Everyone knows, if you buy a Lexus, it's because you're not rich enough to pay for German "reliability" or you just don't have a passion for driving. If you have a passion and really have money, you buy German. Buying a Lexus is like buying a pretender to the throne. Lexus will never be more than glorified Camry's/Toyotas. But they deserve mad props for their reliability and profit per automobile. Oh, and it's because they do NOT build cars that push the envelope of speed and agility that they are able to build such reliable machines.

What is "glorified Camry" about the RWD-based IS, GS and LS?

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Acura is not in the same league as Lexus and neither are in the same league as BMW/Mercedes/Audi.

Everyone knows, if you buy a Lexus, it's because you're not rich enough to pay for German "reliability" or you just don't have a passion for driving. If you have a passion and really have money, you buy German. Buying a Lexus is like buying a pretender to the throne. Lexus will never be more than glorified Camry's/Toyotas. But they deserve mad props for their reliability and profit per automobile. Oh, and it's because they do NOT build cars that push the envelope of speed and agility that they are able to build such reliable machines.

I know you're from Germany so you have a reason to be biased, but it's really annoying that so many car guys here are all over Germany's sac like everything that is good must come from Germany.

 

[JC86]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Acura is not in the same league as Lexus and neither are in the same league as BMW/Mercedes/Audi.

Everyone knows, if you buy a Lexus, it's because you're not rich enough to pay for German "reliability" or you just don't have a passion for driving. If you have a passion and really have money, you buy German. Buying a Lexus is like buying a pretender to the throne. Lexus will never be more than glorified Camry's/Toyotas. But they deserve mad props for their reliability and profit per automobile. Oh, and it's because they do NOT build cars that push the envelope of speed and agility that they are able to build such reliable machines.

My bosses wife used to drive a 05 Mercedes S600, she got in a fender bender and when the bumper came off, the inside was all styrofoam, not exactly the quality i'd expect from a 100,000 car.

My mom drives a 98 E320 and the lamp defective light keeps coming on despite numerous trips to the shop. The supposedly loose connection can't seem to be tightened and our mechanic keeps telling us that its a common problem in that model.

Our 84 Mercedes 320 Turbo Diesel was indeed a beast that never broke down, required little maintenence until she totalled it last march.

Mercedes quality has been going down the drain for the past decade, everyone knows it. It is purely surviving off of reputation alone.

That being said, My mom's E class is still a lot of fun to drive and is definietly one of the most comfortable cars to ride in but for my money, Lexus offers comparable luxury, better reliability and better prices. A number of my parent's rich friends have already switched to Lexus (LS) because they are sick and tired of having their car in the shop the whole time.

 

[mugs]

My bosses wife used to drive a 05 Mercedes S600, she got in a fender bender and when the bumper came off, the inside was all styrofoam, not exactly the quality i'd expect from a 100,000 car.

Isn't that normal? What do you expect to be in the bumper? They're only effective at very low speeds.

 

[JC86]

Originally posted by: mugs

My bosses wife used to drive a 05 Mercedes S600, she got in a fender bender and when the bumper came off, the inside was all styrofoam, not exactly the quality i'd expect from a 100,000 car.

Isn't that normal? What do you expect to be in the bumper? They're only effective at very low speeds.

I'm by no means a car expert but if i'm spending $100,000 of my money, i sure as hell want something more than styrofoam in my bumper. To me, it just seems like a way for them to cut costs and raise their profit margins at the cost of quality.

 

[jtvang125]

Originally posted by: JC86

Originally posted by: mugs

My bosses wife used to drive a 05 Mercedes S600, she got in a fender bender and when the bumper came off, the inside was all styrofoam, not exactly the quality i'd expect from a 100,000 car.

Isn't that normal? What do you expect to be in the bumper? They're only effective at very low speeds.

I'm by no means a car expert but if i'm spending $100,000 of my money, i sure as hell want something more than styrofoam in my bumper. To me, it just seems like a way for them to cut costs and raise their profit margins at the cost of quality.

If I'm not mistaken almost all cars have styrofoam reinforcement behind the bumper at the impact areas. There is also a metal bar the helps brace and hold it in place.

Styrofoam is used because its lightweight, ridgid and with pretty good shock absorption.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Acura is not in the same league as Lexus and neither are in the same league as BMW/Mercedes/Audi.

Everyone knows, if you buy a Lexus, it's because you're not rich enough to pay for German "reliability" or you just don't have a passion for driving. If you have a passion and really have money, you buy German. Buying a Lexus is like buying a pretender to the throne. Lexus will never be more than glorified Camry's/Toyotas. But they deserve mad props for their reliability and profit per automobile. Oh, and it's because they do NOT build cars that push the envelope of speed and agility that they are able to build such reliable machines.

No... you got it backwards. If you have a passion for driving you buy a more reliable car because you want to be able to actually DRIVE the car and not merely go around saying you own one but it's in the garage 99% of the time. My A4 was in the shop with problems for more days than I took for vacation over the 4 years I owned it. I am not exaggerating.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Acura is not in the same league as Lexus and neither are in the same league as BMW/Mercedes/Audi.

Everyone knows, if you buy a Lexus, it's because you're not rich enough to pay for German "reliability" or you just don't have a passion for driving. If you have a passion and really have money, you buy German. Buying a Lexus is like buying a pretender to the throne. Lexus will never be more than glorified Camry's/Toyotas. But they deserve mad props for their reliability and profit per automobile. Oh, and it's because they do NOT build cars that push the envelope of speed and agility that they are able to build such reliable machines.

I know you're from Germany so you have a reason to be biased, but it's really annoying that so many car guys here are all over Germany's sac like everything that is good must come from Germany.

Not from Germany but yes, I am bias.

I am sorry but there is just a feel about German luxury cars...a solid feeling...the way the door closes...the beauty of an Audi interior...the beauty of a Porsche...the M division, AMG, Quattro, the Veyron, the Autobahn, the Nürburgring...the whole package...the whole passion for driving...just all adds up so something that Infiniti/Acura/Lexus cannot match.

 

[GTaudiophile]

And remember, having to make choices for myself, one not having the money for German luxury, I have chosen Mazda in the past for their mix of sportiness and reliability. The smart decision is on the Japanese cars. The passionate (and rich) decision is on German cars.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: psteng19

Originally posted by: JC86

Originally posted by: spidey07
Performance and Interior wise they are similar. I give lexus the edge on both.

IS350 not available in a manual means lexus sucks.

I think the reason its not available in manual is becasue they want you to buy the IS-F, Lexus' challenge to the M3.

Generally speaking, I think Lexus is up there with Mercedes, BMW as mainstream luxury cars while Acura and Infiniti are a notch below. They're still nice cars.

Nope, no manual in the IS-F either.

Lexus is definitely a step up from Acura and Infiniti in terms of prestige and public perception.
I would put Infiniti slightly ahead of Acura just because of the fact that they have a fuller lineup and don't share any platforms with Nissan's (except for the QX). Plus they're all RWD chassis.
In terms of fun to drive, Infiniti is on top of Lexus and Acura.

You're right about QX, as it shares it's underpinnings with the Pathfinder Armada. But it isn't the only platform shared with Nissan - the G, M, and FX are built off of Nissans FM (Front Midship) platform, which originally debuted in the Nissan 350Z.

 

[Toasthead]

Originally posted by: dds14u

Originally posted by: Toasthead
Acura NSX > All past, current and future Lexus's

Really?

Maybe you should take a look at the future of Lexus.

OMG that thing is ridiculously ugly. The NSX not only preformed, but looked fantastic doing it.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Toasthead

Originally posted by: dds14u

Originally posted by: Toasthead
Acura NSX > All past, current and future Lexus's

Really?

Maybe you should take a look at the future of Lexus.

OMG that thing is ridiculously ugly. The NSX not only preformed, but looked fantastic doing it.

NSX concept is pretty ugly too: http://www.2dayblog.com/images/2007/january/nsx_concept_1.jpg

Most concepts are ugly.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Acura is not in the same league as Lexus and neither are in the same league as BMW/Mercedes/Audi.

Everyone knows, if you buy a Lexus, it's because you're not rich enough to pay for German "reliability" or you just don't have a passion for driving. If you have a passion and really have money, you buy German. Buying a Lexus is like buying a pretender to the throne. Lexus will never be more than glorified Camry's/Toyotas. But they deserve mad props for their reliability and profit per automobile. Oh, and it's because they do NOT build cars that push the envelope of speed and agility that they are able to build such reliable machines.

I know you're from Germany so you have a reason to be biased, but it's really annoying that so many car guys here are all over Germany's sac like everything that is good must come from Germany.

Not from Germany but yes, I am bias.

I am sorry but there is just a feel about German luxury cars...a solid feeling...the way the door closes...the beauty of an Audi interior...the beauty of a Porsche...the M division, AMG, Quattro, the Veyron, the Autobahn, the Nürburgring...the whole package...the whole passion for driving...just all adds up so something that Infiniti/Acura/Lexus cannot match.

That may be true and I agree with you but using reliability and German cars in the same sentence is rather humorous. Mercedes has some of the worst reliability on the market. German cars are also the most expensive to repair. They are more for elitests who like to spend money as a status symbol.

 

[dds14u]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Acura is not in the same league as Lexus and neither are in the same league as BMW/Mercedes/Audi.

Everyone knows, if you buy a Lexus, it's because you're not rich enough to pay for German "reliability" or you just don't have a passion for driving. If you have a passion and really have money, you buy German. Buying a Lexus is like buying a pretender to the throne. Lexus will never be more than glorified Camry's/Toyotas. But they deserve mad props for their reliability and profit per automobile. Oh, and it's because they do NOT build cars that push the envelope of speed and agility that they are able to build such reliable machines.

On that note, I don't see Audi's that far up there with BMWs or Mercedes...

And the Japanese have their own passion for driving. Consider their history in drifting..

 

[exdeath]

I see Lexus as a more expensive Toyota. My 2006 Avalon has more power and is better equipped than any Lexus in 2006 and only cost 30k. It's clean, anonymous, and unassuming, it's basically an LS without the price tag or the snobby and gaudy Lexus stigma.

I see Acura as cheap affordable sporty looking but weak cars that teenagers drive.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: exdeath
I see Lexus as a more expensive Toyota. My 2006 Avalon has more power and is better equipped than any Lexus in 2006 and only cost 30k. It's clean, anonymous, and unassuming, it's basically an LS without the price tag or the snobby and gaudy Lexus stigma.

I see Acura as cheap affordable sporty looking but weak cars that teenagers drive.

As long as you realize the Avalon was going after the TL and failed miserably then we're in agreement.

 

[0roo0roo]

acura fell on its face a while back, and their line was never as comprehensive as lexus. perhaps they are clawing their way back with stuff like the tsx, most lexus are boring except for the hybrid versions which although not exactly gas sippers are neat in a gadget way.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Acura is not in the same league as Lexus and neither are in the same league as BMW/Mercedes/Audi.

Everyone knows, if you buy a Lexus, it's because you're not rich enough to pay for German "reliability" or you just don't have a passion for driving. If you have a passion and really have money, you buy German. Buying a Lexus is like buying a pretender to the throne. Lexus will never be more than glorified Camry's/Toyotas. But they deserve mad props for their reliability and profit per automobile. Oh, and it's because they do NOT build cars that push the envelope of speed and agility that they are able to build such reliable machines.

A bigger load of horsesh!t I've never read and that's saying a lot for ATOT.

German reliability? How you can even type that without spewing coke all over your monitor is beyond me. I've owned a few German cars. Don't talk to me about reliability.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: exdeath
I see Lexus as a more expensive Toyota. My 2006 Avalon has more power and is better equipped than any Lexus in 2006 and only cost 30k. It's clean, anonymous, and unassuming, it's basically an LS without the price tag or the snobby and gaudy Lexus stigma.

I see Acura as cheap affordable sporty looking but weak cars that teenagers drive.

As long as you realize the Avalon was going after the TL and failed miserably then we're in agreement.

What? I don't see how, it's two different markets. G35 is more TL's area. Avalon is too 'boring' and 'plain' for that market. The Avalon is too 'mature' and not snotty or aggressive looking enough for the people that are looking for something like a G35 or TL.

Again, just my perception that Acuras are something that teenagers looking to look cool drive, not really adult cars. I see more teens driving Acuras and Infinitis than I do adults.

I'm waiting for the TRD Aurion supercharger for the 2GR-FE V6, 350+ HP :laugh: I know thats not the point of that car, but it's still funny.

 

[Imdmn04]

Lexus has a better brand image than Acura.

Acura has too many kiddie cars, like RSX, TSX that is aimed towards rich teenagers.

As far as Japanese Luxury brands go, Lexus > Acura > Infiniti.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: JC86

Originally posted by: mugs

My bosses wife used to drive a 05 Mercedes S600, she got in a fender bender and when the bumper came off, the inside was all styrofoam, not exactly the quality i'd expect from a 100,000 car.

Isn't that normal? What do you expect to be in the bumper? They're only effective at very low speeds.

I'm by no means a car expert but if i'm spending $100,000 of my money, i sure as hell want something more than styrofoam in my bumper. To me, it just seems like a way for them to cut costs and raise their profit margins at the cost of quality.

You want something that dissipates energy and absorbs the impact. An I-beam isn't going to do that. Pretty much any car has some kind of beam and hydraulic shock absorption system behind that anyway. The real bumper for high speed impacts. The foam is just something to make that can dent to absorb low impact energy while the plastic cover pops back out like rubbermaid (sp?) keeping your car looking nice and new every time a shopping cart runs into it.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Imdmn04
Lexus has a better brand image than Acura.

Acura has too many kiddie cars, like RSX, TSX that is aimed towards rich teenagers.

As far as Japanese Luxury brands go, Lexus > Acura > Infiniti.

IF they were rich they would be driving S55 AMGs and M5s.

Instead they drive Acuras that probably consume 90% of their income while they survive on ramen :laugh:

Acuras are a pretty unique class, nobody else really makes sporty looking but economical 4 bangers in that style. If I was in that particular market I'd take a Acura over a Mazda or anything else.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Imdmn04
Lexus has a better brand image than Acura.

Acura has too many kiddie cars, like RSX, TSX that is aimed towards rich teenagers.

As far as Japanese Luxury brands go, Lexus > Acura > Infiniti.

yea teenage ricer boys with integras pretty much killed acuras image.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: Imdmn04
Lexus has a better brand image than Acura.

Acura has too many kiddie cars, like RSX, TSX that is aimed towards rich teenagers.

As far as Japanese Luxury brands go, Lexus > Acura > Infiniti.

IF they were rich they would be driving S55 AMGs and M5s.

Instead they drive Acuras that probably consume 90% of their income while they survive on ramen :laugh:

Acuras are a pretty unique class, nobody else really makes sporty looking but economical 4 bangers in that style. If I was in that particular market I'd take a Acura over a Mazda or anything else.

What do you drive?