Do you like 67 pesticides with your celery?

[CycloWizard]

Then we'll stop there. Thanks for playing.

I'm sorry you can't wrap your head around the idea that effects have causes. I weep for humanity.

 

[spidey07]

Am I "going organic" for using a very effective worm control pesticide - BT? I only use it because it works well, but DAMN is it expensive.

 

[Descartes]

I'm sorry you can't wrap your head around the idea that effects have causes. I weep for humanity.

Thank you CycloWizard for your continued contribution. I know I feel enlightened, for your impenetrable rationality is one to which we can all esteem.

In other words, find another thread to shit on. You're a disgrace to the quality of discourse, but if that's how you get your jollies then you do us all a disservice. You could keep it civil, but prefer to act like a child and offer insults instead.

By all means, continue back with another. Clearly, this bothers you a hell of a lot more than it does me

 

[Descartes]

Am I "going organic" for using a very effective worm control pesticide - BT? I only use it because it works well, but DAMN is it expensive.

Better than sprays, imo. Sprays can kill off otherwise helpful natural predators that can introduce further problems down the road. I use BT on occasion since the caterpillars just get ridiculous. I've also found great success with creating little habitats for spiders, especially on tomato plants. The spiders get to eat, the caterpillars are kept to a minimum and it's free. But I really enjoy spiders, so that's probably not for all.

I know some folks that have success with attracting birds to help, but I've not really had much success. BT is much easier.

 

[CycloWizard]

Thank you CycloWizard for your continued contribution. I know I feel enlightened, for your impenetrable rationality is one to which we can all esteem.

In other words, find another thread to shit on. You're a disgrace to the quality of discourse, but if that's how you get your jollies then you do us all a disservice. You could keep it civil, but prefer to act like a child and offer insults instead.

By all means, continue back with another. Clearly, this bothers you a hell of a lot more than it does me

If you form your opinions without consulting the facts, you deserve all of the ridicule I can heap on you. Since you repeatedly admitted to it in this thread, I thought I'd do my civic duty.

 

[Descartes]

If you form your opinions without consulting the facts, you deserve all of the ridicule I can heap on you. Since you repeatedly admitted to it in this thread, I thought I'd do my civic duty.

Having fun yet? If this is the therapy you need, please by all means continue. Whenever you feel you've reached victory, please let me know and I'll offer a final concession just so you can get that winning feeling.

 

[CycloWizard]

Having fun yet? If this is the therapy you need, please by all means continue. Whenever you feel you've reached victory, please let me know and I'll offer a final concession just so you can get that winning feeling.

I can never have victory as long as people like you value their feelings over objective fact.

 

[DrPizza]

Hey, I'll keep playing.

I think one of my last posts captured it exactly: All other things being equal, no one would argue that they'd like to have pesticides on their food.

Can I play too?
Do you realize that plants produce their own natural pesticides? Did you know that? No, apparently not. Plants have their own natural defenses against certain insects, molds, etc. They create their own chemicals. And, many of these chemicals are more dangerous than synthetic chemicals. So, exactly what do you mean by a pesticide free food? Do you mean a plant that's been genetically modified to not produce any of the chemicals which lend it some resistance to invaders? Should my garlic not produce allyl isothiocyanate? Celery has been mentioned in this thread - you realize that celery contains myristicin? In large quantities, it can cause hallucinations, liver damage & even death! Oh nooooes! Your food is conspiring against you now. Celery isn't the only food with this chemical; there are a few others.

As far as having pesticides added to the food, you do realize that it's the dose that makes the poison, not the compound, right? In low levels, for many chemicals, there are absolutely no lingering or cumulative effects.

And, while not quite food, cigarette smokers would be pretty pissed if someone took the nicotine out of their cigarettes. Nicotine is also a natural pesticide. I don't think it would take much thought to find other natural pesticides that are desirable. (Citrus oils.) edit: and before you say "ah ha! But those are natural! A lot of natural chemicals can be exactly synthesized in labs.

 

[CycloWizard]

Can I play too?
Do you realize that plants produce their own natural pesticides? Did you know that? No, apparently not. Plants have their own natural defenses against certain insects, molds, etc. They create their own chemicals. And, many of these chemicals are more dangerous than synthetic chemicals. So, exactly what do you mean by a pesticide free food? Do you mean a plant that's been genetically modified to not produce any of the chemicals which lend it some resistance to invaders? Should my garlic not produce allyl isothiocyanate? Celery has been mentioned in this thread - you realize that celery contains myristicin? In large quantities, it can cause hallucinations, liver damage & even death! Oh nooooes! Your food is conspiring against you now. Celery isn't the only food with this chemical; there are a few others.

As far as having pesticides added to the food, you do realize that it's the dose that makes the poison, not the compound, right? In low levels, for many chemicals, there are absolutely no lingering or cumulative effects.

Nice try, but those are just facts. He's already made it clear that his opinions exist in the fact-free zone.

 

[soulcougher73]

Lost in all of you arguing is the fact that both can exist at the same time. If people have what they feel is disposible income and dont mind spending more on food, then so be it. If others are not as fortunate to have as much disposible income and dont mind cheaper probably non-organic food, then so be it.

Neither is right or wrong. Its all a preference to each individual, probably somewhat tied into their disposible income.

 

[kage69]

Didn't pay anything for the 4 Brandywines I have, they were given to me by my neighbor as she didn't have room in her greenhouse for any more. Figured throwing them in the compost pile would be a waste, and at the very least they can be traded for varieties of veg that I am not growing myself. Regardless, my beef with Monsanto doesn't revolve around the quality of their acquired lines, but more with their insidious business practices. That company has been waging war on America's farmers for years, and in the process of proactively "defending" their patents on life (something I don't agree with on principle) have ruined and/or sterilized heirloom varieties of grains around the world. Don't want to do business with Monsanto? Monsanto thinks you should be run out of business then, and has a small army of ex-cops and PIs to observe and sample your crops to hold you accountable for bees bringing pollen onto your land. You can't control the bees? Monsanto and it's lawyer brigade really don't give a shit, you have to buy their crap or lose everything via their legal fee war of attrition.

But that's the way it is in this country, where companies rule the roost. It's a pathetic comment on what we value when the FDA isn't allowed to have the authority to shut down ecoli infected meat plants that have histories getting people killed.



For those of you trying to put all chemicals in the garden on some kind of level playing field, tell me: would you rather be sprayed in the face with a neem oil or garlic juice concoction, or a with a bottle of Sevin? Yes natural compounds can be synthesized in a lab, maybe even produced en masse on the cheap, but that in no way means they are as safe to humans as their naturally occurring originals.

 

[CycloWizard]

For those of you trying to put all chemicals in the garden on some kind of level playing field, tell me: would you rather be sprayed in the face with a neem oil or garlic juice concoction, or a with a bottle of Sevin? Yes natural compounds can be synthesized in a lab, maybe even produced en masse on the cheap, but that in no way means they are as safe to humans as their naturally occurring originals.

Really? You think your body will respond differently to being sprayed with a synthetic version of chemical X than to the natural version of chemical X? You are an idiot. If you had argued that chemical X was impure in the synthetic concoction you might have had an argument, but you didn't. Go back to high school chemistry class and quit spreading your pseudo-science garbage as fact.

 

[CycloWizard]

Lost in all of you arguing is the fact that both can exist at the same time. If people have what they feel is disposible income and dont mind spending more on food, then so be it. If others are not as fortunate to have as much disposible income and dont mind cheaper probably non-organic food, then so be it.

Neither is right or wrong. Its all a preference to each individual, probably somewhat tied into their disposible income.

As I said, I have absolutely no problem with people choosing to do that. I do have a problem when people do it and use their ignorance as a justification, but that applies broadly, not just to this topic.

 

[tk149]

Didn't read the whole thread, however, at a glance, it looks like some people are assuming all the pesticides are used in the farm fields.

The EPA groups sanitizers and pesticides together, so the chemicals that are used to clean equipment and food processing plants may be included in that "67 pesticides" number. If so, I'd guess that "organically-grown" celery would also be exposed to some of those same pesticides. The article does not mention if the Environmental Working Group bothered to test "organic" celery.

My two cents: The dose makes the poison. Trace amounts don't bother me, as long as they don't build up over time.

 

[kage69]

Really? You think your body will respond differently to being sprayed with a synthetic version of chemical X than to the natural version of chemical X? You are an idiot. If you had argued that chemical X was impure in the synthetic concoction you might have had an argument, but you didn't. Go back to high school chemistry class and quit spreading your pseudo-science garbage as fact.

First of all, settle your ass down there bub. I'm not sure why you need to inject such attitude here, or resort to outright insults, this thread isn't about the Pope or Vatican so how about you take a deep breath and chill the fvck out?
I haven't labeled anything here as fact, and as a rule leave the pseudo-science to the creationists. I poorly worded my feelings as I'm posting in haste from work, mea culpa. Sorry for any confusion. My point was that people arguing that synthetic pesticides are fine and present no more of a safety issue than say, garlic juice, are what I like to call 'wrong.' There are serious warnings concerning 'warm blooded organisms' on products like Sevin for a reason. Yes natural compounds can be replicated synthetically, but that's not an argument for all synthetic ferts being safe.

Back to work!

 

[CycloWizard]

First of all, settle your ass down there bub. I'm not sure why you need to inject such attitude here, or resort to outright insults, this thread isn't about the Pope or Vatican so how about you take a deep breath and chill the fvck out?
I haven't labeled anything here as fact, and as a rule leave the pseudo-science to the creationists. I poorly worded my feelings as I'm posting in haste from work, mea culpa. Sorry for any confusion. My point was that people arguing that synthetic pesticides are fine and present no more of a safety issue than say, garlic juice, are what I like to call 'wrong.' There are serious warnings concerning 'warm blooded organisms' on products like Sevin for a reason. Yes natural compounds can be replicated synthetically, but that's not an argument for all synthetic ferts being safe.

Back to work!

Words have meaning. You said something which meant X previously and now you said something which means Y - they are completely different. Then, you attack me personally for calling you out on your statements which were factually incorrect. If you don't want to get called out for making false statements, then don't make false statements. This practice makes you either a liar or an idiot, and I will label you as such.

 

[kage69]

Words have meaning. You said something which meant X previously and now you said something which means Y - they are completely different. Then, you attack me personally for calling you out on your statements which were factually incorrect. If you don't want to get called out for making false statements, then don't make false statements. This practice makes you either a liar or an idiot, and I will label you as such.

You consider being referred to as "bub" as an attack of some sort? I admitted a mistake, apologized for any confusion, and tried to clarify and now you're trying to attribute your belligerent attitude to me? Why are you acting like such a prick? Were you molested with a stalk of celery as a child?

Kidding aside, pulling that kind of attitude and then complaining of non-existent personal attacks (for what it's worth, disagreed with you plenty in the past, can't ever recall labeling you an idiot) makes you look like a butthurt hypocrite. Maybe I should start labeling you as such.

 

[CycloWizard]

You consider being referred to as "bub" as an attack of some sort? I admitted a mistake, apologized for any confusion, and tried to clarify and now you're trying to attribute your belligerent attitude to me? Why are you acting like such a prick? Were you molested with a stalk of celery as a child?

Kidding aside, pulling that kind of attitude and then complaining of non-existent personal attacks (for what it's worth, disagreed with you plenty in the past, can't ever recall labeling you an idiot) makes you look like a butthurt hypocrite. Maybe I should start labeling you as such.

At this point, I'm not sure if you are really that stupid or just hope everyone else is stupid enough to not bother to read your previous post. Since it's obvious at this point that no one else has educated you, allow me: the appropriate way to apologize is to say, "I'm sorry, what I said was wrong." Attacking the person you claim to be apologizing to is disingenuous at best, though somewhat understandable when that person has just pointed out your ignorance for all the internet to see. My advice: if you don't want to be called ignorant, don't say ignorant things. You tried to bend the facts to support your position. I called you out on it. Deal with it. If I do the same thing, then call me an idiot. However, calling me an idiot for pointing out that you're an idiot simply proves my point.

 

[Oceandevi]

Grow produce for yourself. It's the only way to know exactly what's on it.

damn skippy. Bugs are a pita. Worth it though.