<< You could also run an Intel CPU with a nice shiny Adda 13CFM 16dbA 60mm fan
(not sure if you know dbA that well but 16dbA is VERY quiet...~28 is average ambient noise level, 22-23 is considered a whisper....16 is less than half the loudness of 22). >>I have that fan. Bought it from LeoE. It's VERY quiet. It's currently cooling off my old 250W PSU that is powering the Duron server. It's not even the right size fan (will order a proper fan soon) but it gets the job done.
But with a Coppermine (especially if it's a lowerend), might as well underclock that sucker and run it fanless.
Along with a TKPower fanless PSU. 100% fanless PC.Wow you can get a fanless Power supply?
Now that's impressive...I suggested the Adda becuase that's definately quieter than your PSU fan....but fanless PSU....nice....
Now that's impressive...I suggested the Adda becuase that's definately quieter than your PSU fan....but fanless PSU....nice....
The nForce will not be able to penetrate the segment of the market where the big $ is at, ie. corporate. No doubt the chipset is impressive, but it will mainly succeed in the home PC and DIYer market segments. The only negative I see to it is the graphics portion is weak - by the time nForce boards are available in volume, GF2MX level graphics will be the low end at best. While many home PC users will not have a problem with this, the DIYers will. And then the argument will be the same as that against the i815E - why do I have ot pay an extra $10 for graphics I don't use? What's good for the goose is good for the gander ...
Anyone who thinks this is a business-oriented chipset is very mistaken. In fact, most corporate buyers go out of their way to strip their machines of things like premium video and sound options. And not just for the cost factor either - companies aren't too fond of their employees misusing their machines for non-work-related uses.
I also seriously wonder how those prices quoted for motherboards based on nForce can be accurate. Somebody's gotta take a big hit to get prices down that low, and nVidia sure won't be willing to do so.
Anyone who thinks this is a business-oriented chipset is very mistaken. In fact, most corporate buyers go out of their way to strip their machines of things like premium video and sound options. And not just for the cost factor either - companies aren't too fond of their employees misusing their machines for non-work-related uses.
I also seriously wonder how those prices quoted for motherboards based on nForce can be accurate. Somebody's gotta take a big hit to get prices down that low, and nVidia sure won't be willing to do so.
I just know that nForce will be the first nVIDIA product that I will purchase.
Unless there are some stability issues with the chipset, but judging from nVIDIA's past, I highly doubt that they'll start off with a mediocre chipset. Especially with the $100M or so they got from Microsoft to develop this.
Unless there are some stability issues with the chipset, but judging from nVIDIA's past, I highly doubt that they'll start off with a mediocre chipset. Especially with the $100M or so they got from Microsoft to develop this.
<< what if the nForce was also made avaliable to INtel now? how would the complications come out? >>
If more join THIS THREAD maybe we'll get better answers.
I have been planning to build a Athlon system this fall for sometime now, generally I do not but cutting edge technology, Nvidia may change that. I am hoping they will have a reasonably priced board on the market when I am ready to build.
i tend to agree that the duron cpu pricing offsets the total cost of the mobo+cpu for AMD integrated solutions compared to the celeron's relatively higher price + slightly lower costing i810 mobo solution...
regardless, when anand is referring to the lower delta between the performance of the sis 730S+ via km133 vs the celery+ i810, compared to the kt133/kt133a + duron vs. the celeron + i810, he's referrign to the sis' and via's lack of system performance (viz., memory, non-video) barring video performance...(except the claim of "slow" 2D, whatever slow 2D is defined as...probably not too slow, rather slightly slower than the i810 perhaps)...
benchmarks tell the story...
regardless, when anand is referring to the lower delta between the performance of the sis 730S+ via km133 vs the celery+ i810, compared to the kt133/kt133a + duron vs. the celeron + i810, he's referrign to the sis' and via's lack of system performance (viz., memory, non-video) barring video performance...(except the claim of "slow" 2D, whatever slow 2D is defined as...probably not too slow, rather slightly slower than the i810 perhaps)...
benchmarks tell the story...
<<I want stable and high performing. No sense in settling on a lower performing chipset if there is one that outpeforms it and is just as stable. And there is nothing really innovative about the ALi chipset either. It's just a decent chipset, nothing more nothing less.>>
But what about the upcoming Ali M1667 chipset? This one will feature AMD's LDT, 8x AGP, high speed link and support DDR/SDR memory. This should give it a performance boost over the original Magik 1 chipset and hopefully will be just as stable.
But what about the upcoming Ali M1667 chipset? This one will feature AMD's LDT, 8x AGP, high speed link and support DDR/SDR memory. This should give it a performance boost over the original Magik 1 chipset and hopefully will be just as stable.
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<<
<< Thanks Noriaki, you pretty much summed up what I posted >>
LOL!!! Sorry about that
I typed my post but then got disturbed, and turned around and talked to someone, then came back and hit the button, I didn't see your post Ace >>I didn't mean it in a bad way, I meant it in a good way
<< But what about the upcoming Ali M1667 chipset? This one will feature AMD's LDT, 8x AGP, high speed link and support DDR/SDR memory. This should give it a performance boost over the original Magik 1 chipset and hopefully will be just as stable. >>
We'll just have to wait and see.
I also seriously wonder how those prices quoted for motherboards based on nForce can be accurate.
I too wonder, but we'll have to see I guess. grr, I hate waiting!
oh yeah, I forgot about that upcoming ALi board.. It has potential, I hope it becomes competitive as well!
I too wonder, but we'll have to see I guess. grr, I hate waiting!
oh yeah, I forgot about that upcoming ALi board.. It has potential, I hope it becomes competitive as well!
- Oct 9, 1999
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Wait a second, now that I think about it...that ALi board doesn't sound intriguing at all really since the announcment of the nForce (but it would be nice to shake up things in the market)...
1) AGP8x -- more of a checkbox feature than anything beneficial
2) LDT (actually Hyper Transport) -- doesn't the nForce already use that? And it's not like today's peripherals would really saturate the nForce's bus:
<< The nForce uses AMD's HyperTransport technology as the link between north and south bridges. This implementation of HyperTransport is 8-bits wide, for a total peak throughput of 800MB/second. If you completely saturate all possible south bridge connections, that ends up being a bit over 500MB/second. ATA/100 maxes out at 200MB/second, PCI at 133MB/sec and 10/100, full duplex Ethernet generates 25MB/sec. If the MCP audio is generating a full 256 audio streams, that's about 150MB/sec. While this scenario is extremely unlikely, it's nice having excess bandwidth for a change.
nVidia calculates that if all the various connections from their southbridge chip called the Media and Communications Processor (MCP)--were fully saturated, the link between the north and south bridges could conceivably exceed 500MB/second. ATA/100 (200MB/sec), PCI (133MB/sec) and 256 streams of digital audio (150MB/sec) all add up to a big number. Toss in USB, Ethernet and some smaller contributions, and you reach the 500-plus MB/sec range--which is far beyond the Intel hub architecture's 266MB/sec. While this combination of events is extremely unlikely in most situations, it's good to see excess bandwidth available for a change. >>
http://www.extremetech.com/article/0,2299,s%253D200%2526a%253D4167,00.asp
3) SDR/DDR SDRAM support -- with DDR SDRAM so cheap now, anyone buying an AMD system in the next few months that doesn't get DDR SDRAM doesn't seem to make sense. Not unless you want your old PC133 memory holding back your Palomino.
1) AGP8x -- more of a checkbox feature than anything beneficial
2) LDT (actually Hyper Transport) -- doesn't the nForce already use that? And it's not like today's peripherals would really saturate the nForce's bus:
<< The nForce uses AMD's HyperTransport technology as the link between north and south bridges. This implementation of HyperTransport is 8-bits wide, for a total peak throughput of 800MB/second. If you completely saturate all possible south bridge connections, that ends up being a bit over 500MB/second. ATA/100 maxes out at 200MB/second, PCI at 133MB/sec and 10/100, full duplex Ethernet generates 25MB/sec. If the MCP audio is generating a full 256 audio streams, that's about 150MB/sec. While this scenario is extremely unlikely, it's nice having excess bandwidth for a change.
nVidia calculates that if all the various connections from their southbridge chip called the Media and Communications Processor (MCP)--were fully saturated, the link between the north and south bridges could conceivably exceed 500MB/second. ATA/100 (200MB/sec), PCI (133MB/sec) and 256 streams of digital audio (150MB/sec) all add up to a big number. Toss in USB, Ethernet and some smaller contributions, and you reach the 500-plus MB/sec range--which is far beyond the Intel hub architecture's 266MB/sec. While this combination of events is extremely unlikely in most situations, it's good to see excess bandwidth available for a change. >>
http://www.extremetech.com/article/0,2299,s%253D200%2526a%253D4167,00.asp
3) SDR/DDR SDRAM support -- with DDR SDRAM so cheap now, anyone buying an AMD system in the next few months that doesn't get DDR SDRAM doesn't seem to make sense. Not unless you want your old PC133 memory holding back your Palomino.
It is the only viable chipset for AMD cpu's IMHO. Corporate buyers want every computer to be the same and highly integrated, this saves them much money on support. The 810 and 815 chipsets have been well excepted in the corporate market because of this fact(integrated sound and video). I don't really mean it will take off, but from a corporate stand point, it is the only AMD solution that could interest corporate buyers thus far.
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