do you guys think people are BORN smart/stupid, or is it how they grow up?

[LongCoolMother]

ive thought of this for years, the question is, is it possible that people are BORN with higher intelligence then others and that decides how intelligent they will be later in life?

i will explain it better. my definition of being "smart" is equivalent to having a lot of knowledge, not necessarily intelligence. to me, intelligence is more naturally given, and it cannot be learned. i think it requires intelligence to judge and analyze things, and knowledge just lets your intelligence work. i also believe intelligence allows someone to learn, so people who are more intelligent can learn much more effeciently then those who are less intelligent. i also think intelligence cannot be raised or lowered...kind of like IQ.

being knowledgable is knowing a lot of information, and information can be taught, or recieved. do you guys think someone can be born smarter due to genetics?

perhaps you can raise two humans in the same environment/situations, and one will end up much smarter then the other simply due to them being naturally smarter then the other.

reason why im asking is because if it were true, i find it very saddening that many people in the world have absolutely no access to education. even if they are born a genius, with no education, they cannot take advatage of their intelligence and hone the potential.

no flaming. please.

 

[gogeeta13]

Of course it is, how else did I get all A's without studying or doing HW until I got to my advanced education.

 

[ohtwell]

I think that education comes from both genetics and from environment.


: ) Amanda

 

[HendrixFan]

I hope no one flames this thread, I find it to be an interesting topic.

Personally, I feel that there are instances where people have exceptional intelligence, or at least a higher aptitude for intelligence. I also feel that some people have below average aptitude for intelligence, certainly those with mental retardations, and others that arent classified as such.

However, for the most part, I think most everyone has the same aptitude for intelligence. There are two ways to look at someone who is "smart". They are either well educated, meaning that they have alot of knowledge of facts, figures, events, etc. Those are things that are learned. Alot of people on this forum are well educated in computers, much moreso than most people. Most of us here are seen as "computer whizzes" by others. That has nothing to do with any innate facilities we are born with, just the fact that we were interested in computers, and chose to learn things about it. People are well educated in many fields, or in a few but very deeply. Some people arent educated in much of anything. Those that arent well educated, I think usually have different social factors that prevent them from having the opportunity to educate themselves. Be it social limitations or social expectations.

The other way to look at a "smart" person, is as you said, the ability to judge and analyse. Not just a well educated person that has knowledge of many things, but rather knows how to effectively apply knowledge to events. Most people I know see me as a math genious. They often assume that I was born knowing math. I dont feel that is the case at all though. When I was very little my mother taught me math. I came to learn it and understand it, first counting, then addition and subtraction. Then multiplication. This was all before Kindergarten. I think any child has the ability to learn that type of math that early on, if given the chance. I skipped Kindergarten and went to 1st grade. By second grade, after having rehashed all that math work that I already knew, I had such a mastery off numbers with addition and subtraction, it was second nature to me. In my math class I would sit in the corner and just go through the book on my own while the teacher was teaching the rest of the class. Sadly she was one of the few teachers that encouraged me to move forward. So as I was getting farther and farther ahead in the book, the class was piddling along. Everytime we learned something new in math, I got it as quickly as the teacher taught it. I would zoom through the work, my mind doing simple arithmatic faster than I could feasibly punch it into a calculator. If I saw a 5 and a 7 I knew that was 12 for addition, 2 for subraction (negative depending on order) or 35 for multiplication. Those numbers would just pop into my head they were so routine. So as Im coasting through everything, other kids in my class are still having trouble getting addition and subtraction down, muchless multiplication. Whereas I had a strong foundation as I progressed forward through math, others hadnt quite grasped the previous material before moving onto the next. It created a huge problem as math builds on itself as you advance. By college, all the analytical skills I need for math and physics are so ingrained to me that they come easily. I can analyze things mathematically with ease. But that was also just a learned trained. You learn how to properly analyze and judge things, just as you learn facts and figures. Anyone is capable of doing the same, they just dont ever get to that point.

My friend is raising his child with logic as his foundation for everything. He doesnt tell him "you cant do that because your little" or anything like that. He explains why he cant do things. "I cant read yet because I havent taught been taught yet". Its amazing talking to the kid because he is two years old and doesnt live in a fantasy world. He is off to a quick start of really understanding things.

So, Id say that the majority of the people have simliar aptitudes for intelligence, however you classify it. THere may be exceptions, but I think as a whole everyone is the same.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

If not for chemical interference during pregnancy, it's the way they're raised.

nik

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Nature sets the limits, and nurture strongly affects where in those boundries a child will wind up.

 

[Bluefront]

Of course you inherit many things from your parents. Smart parents usually have smart children. Also, some races of people are smarter than other races. I think the Asian races usually test at a higher IQ than all others, proving you are born with it. Course there are exceptions.....

 

[Mucman]

This topic has always fascinated me... There's a good book called "The Making of Intelligence" (sorry, I can't remember the author). It is very good if you are interested in the subject.

Personally I have always divided intelligence into several categories. There are people who rock with trivia, and then there are those who can solve triple integrals without and problem but cannot tell you the capital of France. Some people have a social intelligence, and they find people like me odd (someone who has trouble interacting with others). I find that the sum of all these categories is a constant. I think everyone is smart in their own way. Many people don't realize it and they let their skills fade away because many don't acknowledge their skills as "smart".

Personally, being involved with computers and enjoying the sciences as a hobby gets me the label smart. Play a game of Trivial Pursuit with me and you will see that I ain't the brightest bulb in the box . I am terrible at trivia, but I bet I could beat you in a game of Chess . My Mom is a great example of this... all the computer and logic mumbo jumbo I throw at her goes over her head.... When it comes to broader knowledge she is very smart.

I don't really think that answers your question, but that's might thought on the subject anyways

 

[Maverick2002]

[not bothering to read the entire thread]

It's both. Each person does have a limit (nature) but most people don't realize that limit (due to nurture) and there's no way to know that you've reached your peak. IQ testing, no matter how "refined", is still relatively inaccurate. Sure, you can tell if someone is mildly or severely retarded, but you really can't judge a person as being smart or dumb. Hell, no one even has a clear definition of intelligence, so what's the point?

[/not bothering to read the entire thread]

 

[Phuz]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
Nature sets the limits, and nurture strongly affects where in those boundries a child will wind up.

Exactly... we're born with a level of innate ability, but of course our environments and surroundings strongly impact which direction we go.

 

[MomAndSkoorbaby]

Yup!

A bit of both if you ask me...

 

[PrincessGuard]

Originally posted by: Bluefront
Of course you inherit many things from your parents. Smart parents usually have smart children. Also, some races of people are smarter than other races. I think the Asian races usually test at a higher IQ than all others, proving you are born with it. Course there are exceptions.....

That doesn't prove anything at all. Smart parents might have smart children because they have the means and ability to teach them well. You could also argue that, say, Chinese people score higher on IQ tests because their educational system emphasizes memorization and test-taking skills more than other cultures.

 

[Lucky]

Chinese people score higher on IQ tests because their educational system emphasizes memorization and test-taking skills more than other cultures.

not to mention asian parents.

 

[PlatinumGold]

What your born with is not NEARLY as important as how your trained.

It doesn't matter how fast the processor is if you can't access the data.

 

[Harvey]

I believe intelligence is not equally distributed, and there is a genetic predisposition to greater or less intelligence. I also believe that intellectual and physical environments make a difference in how far that intelligence is expressed in each child. That includes everything from positive emotional support to good nutrition to intellectual stimulation.

 

[Jfur]

Originally posted by: Harvey
I believe intelligence is not equally distributed, and there is a genetic predisposition to greater or less intelligence. I also believe that intellectual and physical environments make a difference in how far that intelligence is expressed in each child. That includes everything from positive emotional support to good nutrition to intellectual stimulation.

Well said.

 

[Sealy]

I think that intelligence is too broad of a word. There are so many different types of intelligence, like what mucman was eluding to. It does depend on a whole set of circumstances as to how well a child even infant will progess "intelligently". First off there are genetics but I don't think it plays a large part. Second there is the type of interaction a child has with his parents. Is he given things that stimulate him, is he cuddled, spoken to and played with? All very important things. Parents must start the learning process right from the get go. Thirdly it depends on whether you're a boy or girl. Research has been done that says that boys are usually better at math then girls and girls are usually better in the creativity department. This is because boys use 1 side of their brain and women use both. This means that boys are good at doing things systematically one step at a time, hence math problems are solved by figuring out one thing at a time. Whereas girls are good multi-taskers. We can have several things on the go at the same time and know exactly what those things are doing. Being creative usually involves a wide range of information that gets drawn in to a single creativity.

This is all very generalized of course and there are exceptions to the rule, but that's what my thoughts are on the subject!

This might be of interest

 

[wfbberzerker]

i think there are two definitions of "intelligence" in this case. one is the ability to learn new things (which, in my opinion, is a much greater measure of how intelligent someone is). the other is the basic intelligence of facts and information and the like. In both cases, both environment and heredity play a part, but heredity plays a greater part in someones ability to learn.

 

[fatbaby]

Well it depends, if you are religious, you might take the idea of predestinination into account, that God has sorted everything out beforehand, and there is NOTHING you can do to change it.

Or you can focus on the individual and their surroundings and how they make of it

 

[SuperTool]

I think mostly its nurture, and to a smaller extent nature. There is such a well of potential within human mind, that it is rarely the limiting factor. Usually what potential is there is not nurtured to it's full ability, so having more potential wouldn't do any good. For proof, put a C or D Math student with a really good Math tutor, and watch their grades Improve. My close relative is a tutor, and I have seen it happen many times. Of course to be a mathematical genius, it's going to require both great genes and great nurture, but not to just be mathematically learned and smart.
It's the same thing with everything. To be the best at something you need nature and nurture, but to be good at something, you just need nurture, even if your nature is avarage.

 

[Feebes]

I think about this all the time as well. I think that the ability to memorize or to do math problems is nothing compared to the ability to analyze things like business opportunities or to manage and manipulate people, but I also believe there is a balance between those. What I think of when I think of somebody too smart for their own good is a math professor who lives in his own little world of numbers unable to associate with the outside world, or with anything that may be irrational.....such as people. Plain and simple, some people look at the world and see colors, shapes, and flowing thoughts....while others, like our math professor, see numbers, science, and laws. Intelligence is not so much an ability....but how one mind thinks of things....versus another mind.

Also, think about people on far ends of each side of the spectrum. Extreme intelligence has been associated with mental disabilities such a schitzophrenia. While painters and other artists are generally thought of to have their own issues (there have been a few studies on this).....look at vincent van gogh. I think that these people are so far off to each side that it is hard for them to deal with reality.

 

[Eli]

Basically agree with what others have said..

It's both. They're both equally important..

 

[Mani]

Originally posted by: PrincessGuard

Originally posted by: Bluefront
Of course you inherit many things from your parents. Smart parents usually have smart children. Also, some races of people are smarter than other races. I think the Asian races usually test at a higher IQ than all others, proving you are born with it. Course there are exceptions.....

That doesn't prove anything at all. Smart parents might have smart children because they have the means and ability to teach them well. You could also argue that, say, Chinese people score higher on IQ tests because their educational system emphasizes memorization and test-taking skills more than other cultures.

IQ tests don't test memorization ability, they are designed to test intelligence that cannot be taught. Which is why you can have completely uneducated people scoring at genius levels on IQ tests.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: ohtwell
I think that education comes from both genetics and from environment.


: ) Amanda

Indeed. 99% is born stupid, the other 1% learns it over the years.

 

[Bluefront]

IQ testing has changed over the years, in that now there are number of methods used. There are non-verbal tests that can be used on most people, regardless of their ability to read. These days IQ numbers are non-politically correct. Asian races usually score on top.....another race usually scores lowest. No matter what type of test is used, the end scores are usually the same. That's why I can say that your intelligence (IQ) is inherited from your parents.

What you do with your intelligence is another thing. Some people make the most of what they got from their parents, others do not. But whatever you do with it, your basic IQ is determined by the IQ of your parents.....politically correct or not.