Do you guys/gals ever think how short this life is? What's the point of it all?

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ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,446
126
I'm having problems with this statement in Kaido's mega post:

"Third: Realizing that attitude controls like 98% of enjoyment."

Trying to have a positive attitude about things like my job is super tough. Sure, I could SAY something like "Gee, I LOVE reseting user passwords and having my boss ignore all of my suggestions for improvements!", but I'm never going to BELIEVE it because I know that it isn't true.

I'm starting to think that people "slip into" IT and get stuck there because it's a steady paycheck. That said, no sane person would actually enjoy this type of work.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,806
126
This timely video seems very appropriate to the thread.

edit: some of it veers off to other topics though.


 
Last edited:

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,704
5,456
136
The part that infuriates me about seeing starving children is the fact that there is more than enough food in the world for them too, but our idiotic capitalist world will not let them have it. Right now we are dumping milk and potatoes because it's somehow a better decision than donating it to countries that could use it. Liability and all that BS. There are also situations where they rather waste food because they don't want to give it for free because there is no profit. For example say you go through a drive thru and you forgot your money, you won't get your food because you can't pay, but also, that food won't go to someone else (ex: staff member, or just handed to another customer for free etc), but rather be wasted. It's not just with food but with every day items too. A clothing store catches fire and all the clothing gets smoke damage. Rather than try to clean the clothes and send it to less fortunate people, they are ordered to destroy it. Stuff like that just pisses me off so much. It's pure waste just because if idiotic capitalist policies we have created.

We make enough food for 10 billion people and we have less than 8 people. Our problem isn't resources, our problem is distribution. Bureaucracy, dictators, thieves, etc. all get in the way.

TL;DR: Working together is hard.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,960
8,191
136
see, that is the problem with alcohol consumption, you kill off memory cells...
Problem? I would put it in that asset column.

I live in a small city with 60 breweries, and they have drive by contactless pickup. 9 cases down, and I'll be making another run early next week.

... then you die ...
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,704
5,456
136
I'm having problems with this statement in Kaido's mega post:

"Third: Realizing that attitude controls like 98% of enjoyment."

Trying to have a positive attitude about things like my job is super tough. Sure, I could SAY something like "Gee, I LOVE reseting user passwords and having my boss ignore all of my suggestions for improvements!", but I'm never going to BELIEVE it because I know that it isn't true.

I'm starting to think that people "slip into" IT and get stuck there because it's a steady paycheck. That said, no sane person would actually enjoy this type of work.

I should expand on this, because the explanation is a bit more complex as far as my personal definition of attitude goes. I heard a good example a few years ago:

1. Let's say you're on a bus, and the bus is going down a big hill
2. Now let's say the bus loses its brakes and is going to crash into a building
3. Saying "I have a positive attitude!" is going to do exactly zilch for rectifying the situation. You're still going to crash & you're still going to die unless you take action.

I think the first step to managing situations is attitude, which begins with choosing to have a proactive attitude, i.e. not just looking at problems, but adopting them & solving them, even when they're dumb & even when someone else should really be doing them (ever seen the garbage or dishes pile up?? haha!). So it's a multi-faceted definition:

1. Attitude controls a lot of how we feel about things, because you can have a good or a bad attitude about anything. You can be Oscar the Grouch about life, if you really want to!

2. You can choose to be negative, neutral, or positive in your attitude. And it's OK to have different attitudes in different situations. Sometimes work is fun & sometimes it's just work & it's just meh.

3. You can choose to be proactive or reactive in your attitude, in terms of choosing what to focus your attitude on. If you derive your happiness from the current set of circumstances, then you're going to be subject to whatever life gives you in that moment: a boss who won't listen to you, stupid IT busywork, etc. As a result, because you haven't designed a blueprint for how you want to feel & what your default approach is going to be, then you become subject to how you perceive the situation & how other people make you feel. This goes back to the story of Viktor Frankl from his book Man's Search for Meaning - he was stuck in a Nazi prison camp, which was a horrible situation for everyone, but he chose to alter his attitude about it. Obviously it wasn't all rainbows & butterflies, but we compound our problems with how we approach the problem from the perspective of being proactive about our attitudes.

We will all die, someday. You might get cancer, or get into a car accident & lose bodily functionality, or get depression, or suffer from anxiety, or any number of things, but at the end of the day, you're still stuck with how you choose to feel about things, because we all have our free agency. For me, I hit a point where (1) I realized I actually did have control over my attitude, and (2) I realized I didn't want to go through life moping or being complacent about how I felt. Again, having a better attitude doesn't mean being super giddy all the time, but is more of a combination of choosing how you want to react in different situations instead of feeling like the situation dictates how you HAVE to feel. And attitude is really the first step to action...if your attitude is crap, then you're probably not going to make progress on whatever it is you have to do. Like at work, I have to get my work done, so my attitude is worker-mode. At home, I let myself slide on soooooo many things because my attitude shifts into "meh" mode, lol.

So that's what I mean when I say that most of my enjoyment in life comes from my attitude. Situations come & go, things change, but how you define your attitude & then work to adopt & support that attitude is kind of the gate that is open or closed to how you feel about specific things & about life in general. I spent a long time waiting for life to make me happy, before realizing I had to take my happiness into my own hands by being more proactive about how I chose to feel about things, as well as what my action choices were & what I wanted to invite into my life. I don't want to say I was a miserable person, but rather I was just kind of coasting there for awhile with no direction, simply because I hadn't chosen one.

And I definitely don't think it's as easy as rolling off a log...you have to work at it. I think the first step is realizing that you have a choice about how you feel, and then the second step is defining your default attitude, which for me includes being proactive about things & being positive about things. Not necessarily dopey-happy all the time haha!
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,704
5,456
136
Cannot really thank you for sharing that!

My contribution to this topic is to suggest the Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus, with the warning that some of you will not thank me for sharing that either.

Brian Greene actually opens his "Fabric of the Cosmos" with his consideration of the question posed by Camus: "why not suicide?" His takeaway: "You can ponder this or analyze that till the cows come home, but the real question is whether all your ponderings and analyses will convince you that life is worth living. That’s what it all comes down to. Everything else is detail."

I'll also offer my own poor analogy. I always feel a pang of sadness when getting off the chairlift for the last downhill run of the day. This fun will soon be over. I can let that knowledge weigh down my spirits during that last run, or I can use it as motivation to wring every last bit of enjoyment out of it. I think it makes sense to do the latter. There will be plenty of time afterward to dread the long drive home. Life is something like that last ski run. Get the most out of it that you can. Don't let worries about what came before or comes after ruin it for you.

My two cents...

FWIW I thought better of it & switched the photo to a spoiler tag. But yeah...for me, at least, it's a really powerful image & an incredibly strong reminder of what a whiny baby I can be, lol. My problems are largely solvable. Life is largely not too bad. As much as people complain about America, it's pretty freakin' awesome here, even if you're not an ATOT baller. We have opportunity, we have safety nets, we have options. It may not feel like that sometimes, but imo we're far better off than a lot of other countries...people don't kill each other over political changes like the president, there are soup kitchens & other resources available for the homeless, etc. To be fair, there IS a lot of bad stuff here, but it's not all bad, and you can make it as good as you want to make it, if you're willing to work for it. Life will still throw super-crappy circumstances your way, at which point it's up to you to decide what you want your attitude to be about it & what actions you want to take in response to it, because life can be incredibly difficult, but that doesn't mean it has to take us down permanently on an emotional level!
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,741
126
I should expand on this, because the explanation is a bit more complex as far as my personal definition of attitude goes. I heard a good example a few years ago:

1. Let's say you're on a bus, and the bus is going down a big hill
2. Now let's say the bus loses its brakes and is going to crash into a building
3. Saying "I have a positive attitude!" is going to do exactly zilch for rectifying the situation. You're still going to crash & you're still going to die unless you take action.

I think the first step to managing situations is attitude, which begins with choosing to have a proactive attitude, i.e. not just looking at problems, but adopting them & solving them, even when they're dumb & even when someone else should really be doing them (ever seen the garbage or dishes pile up?? haha!). So it's a multi-faceted definition:

1. Attitude controls a lot of how we feel about things, because you can have a good or a bad attitude about anything. You can be Oscar the Grouch about life, if you really want to!

2. You can choose to be negative, neutral, or positive in your attitude. And it's OK to have different attitudes in different situations. Sometimes work is fun & sometimes it's just work & it's just meh.

3. You can choose to be proactive or reactive in your attitude, in terms of choosing what to focus your attitude on. If you derive your happiness from the current set of circumstances, then you're going to be subject to whatever life gives you in that moment: a boss who won't listen to you, stupid IT busywork, etc. As a result, because you haven't designed a blueprint for how you want to feel & what your default approach is going to be, then you become subject to how you perceive the situation & how other people make you feel. This goes back to the story of Viktor Frankl from his book Man's Search for Meaning - he was stuck in a Nazi prison camp, which was a horrible situation for everyone, but he chose to alter his attitude about it. Obviously it wasn't all rainbows & butterflies, but we compound our problems with how we approach the problem from the perspective of being proactive about our attitudes.

We will all die, someday. You might get cancer, or get into a car accident & lose bodily functionality, or get depression, or suffer from anxiety, or any number of things, but at the end of the day, you're still stuck with how you choose to feel about things, because we all have our free agency. For me, I hit a point where (1) I realized I actually did have control over my attitude, and (2) I realized I didn't want to go through life moping or being complacent about how I felt. Again, having a better attitude doesn't mean being super giddy all the time, but is more of a combination of choosing how you want to react in different situations instead of feeling like the situation dictates how you HAVE to feel. And attitude is really the first step to action...if your attitude is crap, then you're probably not going to make progress on whatever it is you have to do. Like at work, I have to get my work done, so my attitude is worker-mode. At home, I let myself slide on soooooo many things because my attitude shifts into "meh" mode, lol.

So that's what I mean when I say that most of my enjoyment in life comes from my attitude. Situations come & go, things change, but how you define your attitude & then work to adopt & support that attitude is kind of the gate that is open or closed to how you feel about specific things & about life in general. I spent a long time waiting for life to make me happy, before realizing I had to take my happiness into my own hands by being more proactive about how I chose to feel about things, as well as what my action choices were & what I wanted to invite into my life. I don't want to say I was a miserable person, but rather I was just kind of coasting there for awhile with no direction, simply because I hadn't chosen one.

And I definitely don't think it's as easy as rolling off a log...you have to work at it. I think the first step is realizing that you have a choice about how you feel, and then the second step is defining your default attitude, which for me includes being proactive about things & being positive about things. Not necessarily dopey-happy all the time haha!

Agreed. Victor Frankl talked about that area between stimulus and responce. So, say the car accident is the stimulus. Your reaction is the response. You have control over the middle part, right before the response. What are you going to do? Also, IMO everything is neutral. A car accident might be a huge loss for a mother with 3 kids whose working 2-3 jobs a week. Paycheck to paycheck. For a college student that same car accident could be a god send. He/she might use the time to catch up on work, work on personal development, or just sit home and relax. It just depends on the person, their background, what's happening in their lives at that time, and the social conditioning that they had gone thru.

I do believe attitude is everything. I love reading/reading Jim Rohn books. He was talking about attitude and how it can shape your life. For example, if you are working another job you can get angry and say this isn't fair, ete.. Or, you can empower yourself and say "I'm building my fortune" and get excited about the possibilities of gaining skills, etc. It truly is up to us. Sadly, most people don't see it that way. That is because most of us come from negative households, so much of what we look for is negative. It's also a very common, conditioned trait. Negativity is what has kept us alive way back when we were living in tribes, and when danger was at every step. Today, it's a much different world, but our brains are still primitive. This is why we must call on positivity, and live in the present as much as possible. Ekert Tolle's book "The Power of Now" is an amazing book for that.

Tom Bileyu posted an article a few years ago on how EVERYTHING IS YOUR FAULT. He talked about how if he were in a car accident it is his fault. Even if a drunk driver smaked into his car. The reason he believes that is so he can have the power of responsibility. Once you give up that power, you lose the power to find answers, and a positive outcome. You start blaming the driver. You end up going down a very dark path. You actually give the power to the driver. You're unable to find answers, because you've given up that power. It could had been the same for Frankl. If he would had blamed Germany, the guards, the war, etc.. He would had given up that power, and TBH he wouldn't had made it out of those concentration camps. He would had been dead. Another great book on prisoner life during war time is James Stockdale's "Courage Under Fire." Stockdale's plane was shot down during the Vietnam War. He spent 4 plus years in those Vietnam Camps, and was a devote Stoic. Called the Stockdale Paradox, This line from his book has always struck me...

When Collins asked who didn't make it out of Vietnam, Stockdale replied:
-Oh, that's easy, the optimists. Oh, they were the ones who said, 'We're going to be out by Christmas.' And Christmas would come, and Christmas would go. Then they'd say, 'We're going to be out by Easter.' And Easter would come, and Easter would go. And then Thanksgiving, and then it would be Christmas again. And they died of a broken heart.

Stockdale then added:
-This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.

Having faith is important. Being optimistic is important, but you must always confront the most brutal facts of your reality. If you're poor, and have little savings. Call it for what it is. You're poor, and develop the discipline to confront it. The same with your health. If you're overweight, say that you're fat and that you will die from heart disease/cancer if you don't do anything. It's when we confront that reality can we move on. Finally, I have a coin that I carry with me. I bought it from Ryan Holiday's store. On the front is a pic of a skull. Next is the hour glass, and on the right is a flower. The hour glass- time. The flower- life. The skull- death. It's a constant reminder that life is ticking. We don't have as much time as we think. Time is illusionary. On the back the words inscribed are: You Could Leave Life Right Now." It's a constant reminder that I'm going to pass someday. During Roman times, the victorious war general would be in his chariot riding thru a huge parade with screaming fans. Roman citizens cheering him on. Standing next to the Roman general would be an average citizen who would be speaking into the general's ear "this too shall past." This was done so the general wouldn't allow his ego to overtake him. That. no matter what he did and how many accomplishments he won that it's all going to end anyway. I thought that was a great idea. MEMENTO MORI- YOU WILL DIE. Here is the coin...

mm3.png
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,024
5,905
126
There is a reason I try to go on 3-5 vacations per year, because I know that life is short and I need to do these things while I can. I feel sorry for those people who solely save for retirement, thinking they will live life in their 60's instead of having any fun in their earlier years.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,741
126
There is a reason I try to go on 3-5 vacations per year, because I know that life is short and I need to do these things while I can. I feel sorry for those people who solely save for retirement, thinking they will live life in their 60's instead of having any fun in their earlier years.

Agreed. Yes, you want to save for retirement. That is a no brainer. But, you also want to live in the moment. The moment is NOW. There is ZERO guarantee that you'll make it to 60 or 65. Yea, you could increase the likihood thru diet, exercise and abstaining from bad habits. But, it's no guarantee. I'll use my mom as an example. Non smoker and drinker. Ate orgainc foods. Healthy foods. She didn't exercise much though. One day, she was having pains in her chest. Went to the doctor, got tested and found that she had an auto immune issue w/ her lungs. At 56. She died 8 years later. Also, do you really want to go on vacations at 40 or 65? I went to Asia in my mid 30s. That was a bit late for me. Still had a blast though. I wouldn't had done half of the things I did if I were 50, or older. Also, your energy levels drop at 60. And start falling dramatically. We tend to overestimate our own health. How you feel when you're young is going to change as you get older.

NOW is the only time we have...
 
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JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
29,391
2,736
126
I've seen a Ted talk about laying out your life on a grid and checking off each week/month (I forget), the idea being that it forces you to be more productive... but I find that's just too depressing literally seeing your life get ticked away like a progress meter, I try not to think about how short it is and just live in the moment.
Link to this grid that i can print out?
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,741
126
Link to this grid that i can print out?

It's the procrastination video by Tim Urban that I had posted earlier. It's on the first page.

Wonderful and entertaining video on procrastination. I laughed many times. It was put together very well, and very reletable. You should watch it just for that. The life grid is briefly talked about at the end of the video. Tim has a wallpaper life grid for sale on his web site. You can probably do it yourself if you wanted via MS word, or maybe excel.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
29,391
2,736
126
Link to this grid that i can print out?
found a printable grid:
Weeks.png
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,382
5,347
146
There is a reason I try to go on 3-5 vacations per year, because I know that life is short and I need to do these things while I can. I feel sorry for those people who solely save for retirement, thinking they will live life in their 60's instead of having any fun in their earlier years.
I can't get my wife onboard with that :( and I do try.
 
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MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,960
8,191
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There is a reason I try to go on 3-5 vacations per year, because I know that life is short and I need to do these things while I can. I feel sorry for those people who solely save for retirement, thinking they will live life in their 60's instead of having any fun in their earlier years.
But you might live another 20 - 30, and you sure as hell don't want to be broke that long. I retired at 55, almost 20 years ago, and planning on another 10 minimum.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,024
5,905
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But you might live another 20 - 30, and you sure as hell don't want to be broke that long. I retired at 55, almost 20 years ago, and planning on another 10 minimum.
I didn't say don't save for retirement. I am saying to live a little while saving. I know people who haven't even been out of the country because they don't want to spend the money because they don't have it because they are saving for retirement. That is no way to live life IMO.

You also may not live for another 20-30 years after retirement. My dad died at 57 before he was even retired.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
29,391
2,736
126
There is an awful, awful picture I use for motivation, a photo shot by Kevin Carter in Sudan of a bird-of-prey stalking a starving girl. There's so much wrong in this picture & so many human failings on so many levels that I can't even wrap my mind around it. And whenever I start getting into a negative loop, I look at that picture and remind myself that I have solvable problems & that my life isn't so bad that I'm starving to death & about to be eaten by a wild animal. It's a bit of an extreme motivational technique, but for me, it's a good slap-in-the-face to help me adjust my perspective & zoom out from the day to day stuff I get all wound up about.
holy... :eek:
did he help that child, at least till she wasnt going to be the bird's food for that day???
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,741
126
32,850

That is how many days that you have from birth until 90 years old. Now, deduct your age from that total. So, if you're 40, you'd multiply 365x40= 14,600. 32,850-14,600= 18,250 That's it. Now, you could shorten that total to the national average which is about 76 years. Let's get real most of us aren't living to 90. Let's say 80 then. That is kinda doable. So, 365x80= 29,200. 29,200-14,600= 14,600. That's it. You don't have many days on this earth. Lets go with 60 years, and the end date being 80. 365x60= 21,900 days that you've lived. 29,200-21,900= 7,300 days left. That's it. When you look at your life in days, it really does put everything in perspective. Instead of looking at life as this one HUGE event in years, you look at it in days. You realize that WOW... It's so short, and hopefully that realization will kick you in the ass to do the things that you've been putting off.

I like counting down the days in my journal. I take the days, and I'll put the total at the top. Every day I'll tick off one more day. It makes me aware that my life is ticking away. There goes another day. Another day. Another day. Am I doing what truly makes me happy. Another day. There goes another... You can argue that all of this focus on death could make you neurotic. Maybe. But, I want to be aware of my limited time on earth than be suprised one day when the doc tells me that I only have a few months to live. No regrets.

 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,316
10,814
136
You also may not live for another 20-30 years after retirement. My dad died at 57 before he was even retired.


Agreed ... I went on a bunch of expensive ski vacations in my late 20's-early 30's with friends and took a lot of flack for doing it from relatives.

Now 20+ years later I'm SOOOO glad I did!

(1) I would no longer be physically able to do most of those trips stamina-wise or in terms of skiing ability.

(2) The cost of the trips I took has increased exponentially.

(3) Snow conditions most of the time are not what they used to be.

I could go on listing reasons but you get the idea .... one thing to realize about life is that its always "right now". It will never be "tomorrow" or "next week" when those times roll around they'll morph into "right now" too!

So better get busy living life RIGHT NOW because that's all you've got!

o_O :)
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,457
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www.anyf.ca
One thing I really want to work on is figuring out a way to reduce my costs of living, then I'll have more money to do more stuff I enjoy and be able to get financial independence faster. There's too many bills in the city and they go up every year so I do want to eventually build a cabin in the woods and move there. Why go to a vacation destination when you can build a vacation destination! Only thing I would still want a source of income and I would be too far from work, so I'll have to work on that part too.
 

PowerEngineer

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2001
3,566
736
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One thing I really want to work on is figuring out a way to reduce my costs of living, then I'll have more money to do more stuff I enjoy and be able to get financial independence faster. There's too many bills in the city and they go up every year so I do want to eventually build a cabin in the woods and move there. Why go to a vacation destination when you can build a vacation destination! Only thing I would still want a source of income and I would be too far from work, so I'll have to work on that part too.

Not too far from what I was thinking when I fled Philadelphia: "why not live in a place where I would like to go on a vacation?" It was really pretty easy for me as electricity is ubiquitous. Ended up moving all the way across the country to the Pacific Northwest. One of the best decisions I have ever made.

Perhaps you don't need to build a vacation destination. Are there any places you consider to be vacation destinations in Canada that you can move to?