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Do you feel a utopian scenario is something mankind should ever strive to create?

glenn1

glenn1

Lifer
Heard John Lennon's "Imagine" on the way home from work today. For a song expressing his hopes about when there would be "no religion too" and all the people would "live for today," and I can only think of what a lousy world that would be. Every utopian scenario I can think of involves the repression of one of the aspects of human nature. For example, sure, John Lennon's world would eliminate one human vice (greed) but would wipe out one human virtue in the process (ambition).

Can you think of any single utopia scenario, where once you considered everything which was involved, the costs as well as the "benefit," that you'd ever want to see come to pass?
 
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Utopia is impossible. Mankind cannot exist in such a scenario. We strive towards superiority, not equality.
Click to expand...

Looking at the world from a completely deterministic outlook, I believe that the world that we currently live in *is* at its very peak, doing the "best" that it possibly can.

So I believe that, in a sense, we are living in utopia.
 
Originally posted by: Jehovah
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Utopia is impossible. Mankind cannot exist in such a scenario. We strive towards superiority, not equality.
Click to expand...

Looking at the world from a completely deterministic outlook, I believe that the world that we currently live in *is* at its very peak, doing the "best" that it possibly can.

So I believe that, in a sense, we are living in utopia.
Click to expand...

this is a pretty sorry utopia...in fact a dystopia if anything
 
Originally posted by: DotheDamnTHing
Originally posted by: Jehovah
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Utopia is impossible. Mankind cannot exist in such a scenario. We strive towards superiority, not equality.
Click to expand...

Looking at the world from a completely deterministic outlook, I believe that the world that we currently live in *is* at its very peak, doing the "best" that it possibly can.

So I believe that, in a sense, we are living in utopia.
Click to expand...

this is a pretty sorry utopia...in fact a dystopia if anything
Click to expand...

Well like I said, considering the outlook of a strict determinist - this is the *only* option available. So in a sense, I suppose, this also could be the *worst* path possible. But I'm an optimist, so I do believe that as things go on, it improves . . ..

 
Originally posted by: glenn1
Can you think of any single utopia scenario, where once you considered everything which was involved, the costs as well as the "benefit," that you'd ever want to see come to pass?
Click to expand...

Nerdy, I know, but: Star Trek.
 
Originally posted by: Jehovah
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Utopia is impossible. Mankind cannot exist in such a scenario. We strive towards superiority, not equality.
Click to expand...

Looking at the world from a completely deterministic outlook, I believe that the world that we currently live in *is* at its very peak, doing the "best" that it possibly can.

So I believe that, in a sense, we are living in utopia.
Click to expand...

If you really believe that, you've got pretty low expectations for a utopia. Africa alone is host to some terrible sh|t.
 
Lennon's ideal world was obviously perfect to him, but it was only that - an idea. He was a visionary albeit a dreamy one, obviously a hippie for all intents & purposes, no disrespect intended. But it was only a song, man! CHILL! 😉

In all seriousness, there are so many different versions of "utopian" society (one for everyone, right?) so as to make it an illusion. Reality to me is all about balance, so the whole "wiping out" of virtues idea is lost on me. The range of vice & virtue is a constant, there is nothing we can do to change it, we can only hope to control ourselves and live out moral lives. Ultimately society is a reflection of its inhabitants... therefore to become "utopian" or perfect, it is wiser to look inward as opposed to outwards at society. My 0.02 😛
 
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Utopia is impossible. Mankind cannot exist in such a scenario. We strive towards superiority, not equality.
Click to expand...

I agree. The first matrix was a utopia and it failed. 😛 Seriousally though, I don't think humans can live in such a society.
 
Originally posted by: glenn1
Can you think of any single utopia scenario, where once you considered everything which was involved, the costs as well as the "benefit," that you'd ever want to see come to pass?
Click to expand...

Unless Utopia is catered for every single individual human being, or humanity is wiped of all variances, this is utterly impossible anyways.
 
The problem with Utopia is that it is a product of one point of view. If every one had that same outlook, then we might already have accomplished it. After all everyone would be working towards the same common purpose. No war. Why? Everyone is the same. While I like that aspect, even that isn't worth it. I shudder to think of a world of people just like me. Nothing new, nothing different. Just boring sameness.
 
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Originally posted by: Jehovah
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Utopia is impossible. Mankind cannot exist in such a scenario. We strive towards superiority, not equality.
Click to expand...

Looking at the world from a completely deterministic outlook, I believe that the world that we currently live in *is* at its very peak, doing the "best" that it possibly can.

So I believe that, in a sense, we are living in utopia.
Click to expand...

If you really believe that, you've got pretty low expectations for a utopia. Africa alone is host to some terrible sh|t.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I suppose I do. But notice I said that for it is at the peak of what it is possible of doing at this very moment.

Going a bit into the P&N here, but given the prior rape of the lands and culture by outsiders in Africa, it has to go through a period of reform before it can define itself as a society - as long as rousources are limited, conflict is inevitable - all that hippie sh!t about "a perfect society in the future having no wars"? Please. Those are idealistic daydreams of philosophers who dream of being kings - Lenin's communism proved that - and if you read Plato's Republic, it's a fascist society ruled with an iron fist - all lead by Philosopher kings!

Application and theory are two very distinct things.
 
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