Do you consider the USA a good country?

[master_shake_]

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archiv...live-in-one-of-the-most-prosperous-countries/

1 Norway
2 Switzerland
3 Canada
4 Sweden
5 New Zealand
6 Denmark
7 Australia
8 Finland
9 Netherlands
10 Luxembourg
11 US

we're number three, HEY!
we're number three, HEY!
we're number three, HEY!

suck it denmark!

 

[doubledeluxe]

Well, I stumbled upon the Zambia bit first and since it was so obviously misleading and agendized and wrong, I decided not to play games with the rest of the items on the numbered list, except for 5 as I explained.

I gave my opinion as to why I think America is the best country in the world. Without even bringing up how we saved the rest of the world from oblivion on a few occasions. Which we of course did.

So now you're claiming that the USA saved the world? Sigh....

You're absolutely right that he was not elected. That was my error. I was throwing out stuff off the top of my head from 3rd world countries. If you would like I can counter with the female leaders of Germany, Israel, Argentina, Iceland and the myriad others. If you want a black leader elected in a white country Obama is your man.

 

[master_shake_]

There's some guy who "Ranks America". Lots of the stuff is kinda stupid but check it out.

http://rankingamerica.wordpress.com/

I thought I would address your post since I just started laughing when I read it.

1. Still more freedom than 90% of all countries.

There are 90 countries in the world that are considered free. So you got at least the number right. That adds up to about half the countries in the world. You can then add about another 50 countries that are partly free which leaves us with like 50 countries that have no freedom. So your claim that we have more freedom than 90% of all countries is false.

2. More different kinds of high quality people from all backgrounds than all other countries combined

Care to back this up? I don't even know how you quantified it.

3. 90% of the population living under functional atheism (defined as real daily life without God, and periodic perfunctory attention to religion during marriages, funerals, and baby births - lasting a few days and then receding into the unseen background)

The USA is very religious with 65% of our population finding it very important in their daily lives.

4. Sense of life and joie de vivre among the best in the world

The United States ranks 105 out of 111 countries for the happiest people or 17th behind Mexico depending on which happiness report you look at.

5. Egalitarianism at a minimum, although it gets a lot of lip service.

The USA ranks almost dead last for inequality among OECD countries. Not a good sign of egalitarianism.

6. Less caving in to irrational envirofascism (again lots of lip service, but for example Keystone will get built sooner or later and we're fracking up a storm)

This is a hot button environmental topic. Rather than get into the politics of it lets just look at our environmental record. Yale's EPI index ranks us 33rd out of 178 countries. Not bad but dead last for the developed world.

7. Black president elected by 90% non-black population (where else would that happen?)

Well if you read the news recently you would notice that an African country, Zambia, with almost no white people has a white president. Malawi elected a female president a few years ago. Obama is not a special snowflake. That's just off the top of my head.

8. Natural beauty and resources in top 10% of all countries? Check.

I personally find the western USA to be one of the most beautiful places on Earth but there are many others. Natural resources. As far as Natural Resources we're not in the top 10%. We're number 2. Fist bump we're awesome!

9. Hated and envied by many countries? Check.

Not something I would put on my list of why the USA is a great country. I'm taking my fist bump back.

10. Still the country that invented and will continue to perfect freedom as the central tenet? Check.

No. Just no. First you need to understand that there are many freedoms. We do not have them all in the USA but that does not mean we are not free. So freedom as an overall subject existed long before the USA was a country. Even freedom of religion has existed in parts of Europe since the 1500s or 1600s. Saying we invented and are perfecting freedom is just the height of ignorance.

11. Most powerful military that protects all the other stupid little collectivist countries that don't have one? Check.

Yay finally something we're number 1 at. We have the biggest military in the world. The world spends $1.7 trillion and we spend 39% of that. Yay! Fist bump again! Your second part is just rude and disrespectful. Where was the USA when Sudan needed us? What about in the CAR? Congo? What did we do to stop the Khmer Rouge? And so on...

12. Invented baseball and football, sports that emphasize intellectuality and individuality over the mindless robotic collectivistic boring repetition of soccer? Check.

Go Raiders! Honestly your opinion on sports is another stupid thing that has nothing to do with the greatest country in the world. I'm taking my fist bump back once again.

13. Invented jazz, the music of on-the-spot improvisation and an artistic celebration of freedom? Check.

I like Jazz too but I can't believe you brought it up here. No more fist bumps. I just want to facepalm.

hmmmmm......

i think the word "PWNT" is what we'd use here.

 

[LegendKiller]

I think this country is far better than most.

 

[doubledeluxe]

I gave my opinion as to why I think America is the best country in the world. Without even bringing up how we saved the rest of the world from oblivion on a few occasions. Which we of course did.

I really feel like I need to address this specifically since it's just so ignorant and disrespectful.

Did you know that the UK just finished paying off their WWII debt to the USA a handful of years ago?

You have two things. First the goods that we SOLD to them during the war and then the LOAN we gave them after the war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash_and_carry_(World_War_II)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-American_loan

I'm not familiar with the exacts but we did the same thing in WWI I believe.

Basically the war was a good business deal for the USA and led to everyone else being broke and us being a superpower followed shortly thereafter by the Soviet Union being a superpower and the Cold War.

Did the USA save the world? We helped win the war by selling goods. Had we not put a soldier on the ground the European war could still have been won. The Soviets would have poured another 10 million people towards Germany. No clue about the Pacific. The nukes are a curve ball. The Soviets attacking them would have been another.

We never saved the world. Combined with our allies we defeated the Axis. What the Soviets, Brits, and countless others did to help win that war cannot be dismissed with American flag waving. It's arrogant and rude.

 

[LegendKiller]

I really feel like I need to address this specifically since it's just so ignorant and disrespectful.

Did you know that the UK just finished paying off their WWII debt to the USA a handful of years ago?

You have two things. First the goods that we SOLD to them during the war and then the LOAN we gave them after the war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash_and_carry_(World_War_II)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-American_loan

I'm not familiar with the exacts but we did the same thing in WWI I believe.

Basically the war was a good business deal for the USA and led to everyone else being broke and us being a superpower followed shortly thereafter by the Soviet Union being a superpower and the Cold War.

Did the USA save the world? We helped win the war by selling goods. Had we not put a soldier on the ground the European war could still have been won. The Soviets would have poured another 10 million people towards Germany. No clue about the Pacific. The nukes are a curve ball. The Soviets attacking them would have been another.

We never saved the world. Combined with our allies we defeated the Axis. What the Soviets, Brits, and countless others did to help win that war cannot be dismissed with American flag waving. It's arrogant and rude.

lol - are you kidding me? Do you realize the peril the world was in prior to 12/7/41? Sure, lend/lease and the others were in effect but the tide didn't really turn until we started flooding naval assets into the atlantic, huge convoys, liberty ships...etc that material was able to make it through. Without that Russia would have starved and the UK would have been beaten into submission by the U-Boats and blitzkreig. There is *NO* way they would have won without our direct involvement. Without the other fronts and effective British counter, Russia would have been overwhelmed.

Furthermore, had the US not provided a counter to Russia, even if Russia had managed to beat Germany, then France and the UK, along with the rest of Europe, would have been under Soviet control.

 

[Dessicant]

I really feel like I need to address this specifically since it's just so ignorant and disrespectful.

Did you know that the UK just finished paying off their WWII debt to the USA a handful of years ago?

You have two things. First the goods that we SOLD to them during the war and then the LOAN we gave them after the war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash_and_carry_(World_War_II)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-American_loan

I'm not familiar with the exacts but we did the same thing in WWI I believe.

Basically the war was a good business deal for the USA and led to everyone else being broke and us being a superpower followed shortly thereafter by the Soviet Union being a superpower and the Cold War.

Did the USA save the world? We helped win the war by selling goods. Had we not put a soldier on the ground the European war could still have been won. The Soviets would have poured another 10 million people towards Germany. No clue about the Pacific. The nukes are a curve ball. The Soviets attacking them would have been another.

We never saved the world. Combined with our allies we defeated the Axis. What the Soviets, Brits, and countless others did to help win that war cannot be dismissed with American flag waving. It's arrogant and rude.

A good business deal... Had we not put a soldier on the ground the European war could still have been won...

I think I will choose to focus on what did happen, not what could have happened, but did not happen. In other words, my focus will stay on reality rather than fantasy. What did happen is we lost 400,000 soldiers on foreign soils aiding our allies. More than Great Britain itself. More than France. And while we saved Europe, we also destroyed the savage aggression from the Japanese.

Hmmm, in researching a bit I stumbled on an interesting site that explains a few things. I knew we were good, but my hyperbole was perhaps an understatment:

http://americaintheworld.typepad.com/briefings/2008/08/america-and-t-1.html

 

[doubledeluxe]

Stalingrad - 2 February 1943
D Day - 6 June 1944

I think it's important to recognize that there was no single event in that war that led to a victory. It was several. The UK surviving the Battle of Britain, Stalingrad, D Day, Midway, Battle of the Bulge, and more.

See I am not diminishing our efforts in WW2. What I am doing is giving credit where credit is due. It was a team effort. The USA did NOT save the world.

 

[doubledeluxe]

A good business deal... Had we not put a soldier on the ground the European war could still have been won...

I think I will choose to focus on what did happen, not what could have happened, but did not happen. In other words, my focus will stay on reality rather than fantasy. What did happen is we lost 400,000 soldiers on foreign soils aiding our allies. More than Great Britain itself. More than France. And while we saved Europe, we also destroyed the savage aggression from the Japanese.

Hmmm, in researching a bit I stumbled on an interesting site that explains a few things. I knew we were good, but my hyperbole was perhaps an understatment:

http://americaintheworld.typepad.com/briefings/2008/08/america-and-t-1.html

France lost over 500,000 people. The UK lost over 450,000. Are you keeping score here to flag wave some more? The USA lost 420,000. The Soviet Union lost 20 million. At least.

Nyquil is kicking in. I won't be able to do much more tonight. G'night.

 

[Dessicant]

France lost over 500,000 people. The UK lost over 450,000. Are you keeping score here to flag wave some more? The USA lost 420,000. The Soviet Union lost 20 million. At least.

Nyquil is kicking in. I won't be able to do much more tonight. G'night.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

In any case, our viewpoints are radically different but are now sufficiently exposed and do not require further debate.

So I am moving on to the next topic of interest which will be decided over coffee in the morning.

Or wait, hold the presses. My next debate is whether to buy the Logitech G910 Orion keyboard which I just stumbled upon. Holy jeez that's a hot keyboard. This forum is a deadly poison, leading me to one tantalizingly unbelievably cool item after another.

 

[LegendKiller]

Stalingrad - 2 February 1943
D Day - 6 June 1944

I think it's important to recognize that there was no single event in that war that led to a victory. It was several. The UK surviving the Battle of Britain, Stalingrad, D Day, Midway, Battle of the Bulge, and more.

See I am not diminishing our efforts in WW2. What I am doing is giving credit where credit is due. It was a team effort. The USA did NOT save the world.

Without the US entering the war Stalingrad either does not happen or is a disaster for the Soviets.

 

[Muse]

Alright, the case made that...

America is a great nation

Check this out! I have played this quite a few times on my radio show, it's pretty amazing and amusing. It's tongue in cheek (satirical) but half serious at the same time, kind of mind blowing. It kind of sends up what you might call the dark and venal side of the American psyche, terms I heard to describe Richard Nixon, incidentally. At the same time, it celebrates American "accomplishments."

 

[Muse]

What light do we shine today that will make people choose us over say Norway or Germany?

It's not necessarily light shining, but there's no place in Norway or Germany that's going to have weather as accommodating as where I'm living right now at this time of year. The contrast is phenomenal. Those tiny countries are going to be socked in by blizzards if they aren't already. I haven't seen a snow flake in 50 years. I explained this to a woman on the phone last week who was in Massachusetts and she insisted with obvious sincerity that I should consider myself lucky, period.

 

[Muse]

Very true, especially in jazz. The highest compliment you can pay a male jazz artist is to say he plays like a black man.

Mini hijack, but what do you think of Eldar Djangirov? I recently discovered him and I am awe struck. He sounds like the love child of Oscar Peterson and Sergei Rachmaninoff!

I hadn't heard of him. I'll have to check him out. I'm a DJ at college radio station KALX, Berkeley, CA, 90.7 FM, DJ handle "The Muse." We have over 100,000 separate music disks, i.e. vinyl and CD's, we likely have some of his recordings. My own tastes in music are extremely broad/eclectic.

 

[silicon]

Being the world most powerful country, the USA has been in the world's spotlight for a long time. Even people who do not live there are interested in its affairs and governments. When something major happens in the US, it is covered by news outlets around the world. It is considered by many to be the best country in the world, and that's why thousands of people immigrate to it every year, in hopes of a better future.

However, there is no shortage of people who dislike or outright hate the US. Most of this anger comes from its foreign policy, which has had a negative effect on many countries. The Iraq War, helping guerrilla orgs to wage indirect war against nations, and drone attacks are some of the chief reasons why people dislike them.

What about you? Do you consider the USA a good country?

The US is a good country and a rich and powerful country. It has given the world so much and has raised the standard of living for so many. But it has economic interests and it looks out very carefully for those.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

The US certainly has some serious problems, but I always end up being glad to be home after vacations to other countries. Food is so cheap here compared to other parts of the world. Gas is a lot cheaper. I don't have a huge VAT tax to pay on everything I buy. We have some of the best beer in the world and our national parks are spectacular if you're a person who loves the outdoors. As much as I admire countries like Germany that have responsible adults instead of shady banks running their governments, I still think the US has a lot going for it.

 

[Morbus]

It is no longer the "Best" country in the World

I don't think it ever was. I mean, we've always had the Nordic countries in the list, right?

 

[ralfy]

Essentially dependent on the petrodollar, but that won't last.

 

[piasabird]

Mexico is responsible for Mexican poverty. Their whole government is one corrupt mess. The police in Mexico are more likely to steal your money than to help people. The free trade act was suppose to help Mexico and Canada. How come Canada is free and thriving and Mexico is a Hell Hole? It is all Mexico's Fault. They want poverty and corruption. They made themselves that way.

 

[Muse]

Mexico is responsible for Mexican poverty. Their whole government is one corrupt mess. The police in Mexico are more likely to steal your money than to help people. The free trade act was suppose to help Mexico and Canada. How come Canada is free and thriving and Mexico is a Hell Hole? It is all Mexico's Fault. They want poverty and corruption. They made themselves that way.

This is kind of OT, but I'll respond because this idea has been swimming in my head for years and I wonder what other folks think of it... Question: Are Mexico's problems engendered by its latitude? Countries where the winters are fierce aren't so fucked up because the weather forces people to get their act together. I have similar ideas about Brazil sometimes.

 

[Remobz]

This is kind of OT, but I'll respond because this idea has been swimming in my head for years and I wonder what other folks think of it... Question: Are Mexico's problems engendered by its latitude? Countries where the winters are fierce aren't so fucked up because the weather forces people to get their act together. I have similar ideas about Brazil sometimes.

Trust me it is much more complicated than that.

I will say this though. The insatiable DEMAND for drugs from Canada and USA has helped a lot in fueling the corruption in Mexico and neighboring Countries for example. It is not the only reason but it is still a contributing factor.

The US is one of the leading arms producers in the world. Where do you think these guns end up?

What country has the BIGGEST environmental footprint in the Americas? Take a good guess.

The cold weather Countries sure have their act together indeed.

 

[doubledeluxe]

Decriminalize drugs and watch Latin America do much better. How much better I can't say though since most of the cartels and organized crime syndicates are now diversified into much more than just drugs and human trafficking.

Also keep in mind that there's a pretty big difference between the different parts of Mexico. The Northern parts that are poor and crime infested do not represent the whole country.

 

[Craig234]

Decriminalize drugs and watch Latin America do much better. How much better I can't say though since most of the cartels and organized crime syndicates are now diversified into much more than just drugs and human trafficking.

Kind of like how prohibition allowed organized crime to grow a lot in the US and expand, and decades later one crime family's business was as large as the biggest US corporation.

We spent 50 years before fixing it after alcohol was legalized. But it's still better to get started and cut off the billions going to them from drugs.

Also keep in mind that there's a pretty big difference between the different parts of Mexico. The Northern parts that are poor and crime infested do not represent the whole country.

It affects the whole country, though. Those 43 massacred students with a drug cartel-linked mayor wasn't in Northern Mexico.

 

[doubledeluxe]

Holy crap I just tried to google images for a map of where all the crimes have been and the most gruesome disgusting shit I have ever seen showed up. Not going to even bother trying to find it.

That last kidnapping really is far south though and I'm no expert so I'll stand corrected.

 

[Craig234]

I'm sorry you saw all that. I'm a bit worried why I feel that but laughed also. Gallows humor I guess. But we agree on the larger issue - we need to end that slaughter.

I have always opposed the use of the drugs that are illegal, so it says a bit that I want them legalized in order to get those billions out of the hands of the cartels.