Do you consider abandonware pirating?

[Mucman]

I am looking at for some good ol classics for my 486 and I have run across some abandonware sites... They try to let you know if some games are still retailing and they won't let you download them, but if they are not being sold in stores you can download them... I think this is alright don't you?

Some games I have found are :

Out of this World (one of my all time faves)
SQ 1-5
and Frontier (I heard it was awesome so I am gonna try it out)

 

[Dark4ng3l]

it is illegal

 

[Mucman]

But for stuff that can never be purchased anymore?

 

[DAM]

ofcouse its illegal, like a book that is no longer printed, can you use the ideas and quotes from the book withough giving proper credit? no. the same applies to a game. IMO.








dam()

 

[mosdef]

Yeah, just because they call it something else doesn't mean it isn't what it is.

-mosdef

 

[Workin']

The only way it would be legal is if the author put the code in the public domain. I don't think that happens a whole lot, though.

 

[Rigoletto]

There isn't much solid reasoning to why the authors of basically worthless software, or their companies, would deny you such material, but some do looking on it as the thin end of the wedge. What wedge that would be I have no idea. Yes, it's technically illegal, but it could be got away with for quite a while because it's not big money. If you tried to sell star wars downloads then things might get hot heh heh.
But I don't see any reason why defunct computer emulator games shouldn't be freely distrubuted as freeware; that is just meanness in the extreme to deny the public this.

 

[Workin']

OK, this is an example, not a personal attack.

I doubt anyone would put you in jail for this, but let's look at it logically -

Is it OK if I steal from you if it is only a little and you aren't really watching and the bank is closed and I could really have some fun with that money? NO??? Boy, you are mean!

<< There isn't much solid reasoning to why the authors of basically worthless software, or their companies, would deny you such material, but some do looking on it as the thin end of the wedge. >>

Well, it's called the law, and just because you don't like it doesn't make it the thin edge of the wedge! And if it's basically worthless, why do you want to steal it!?

 

[jaywallen]

Hi, Mucman!

Just a thought. I've never done this to get a game, but I've done it for applications software. I had a specific use for Borland's old (and excellent) database analyzer, Reflex 2.0. Borland had long since stopped selling the software. I wrote their corporate offices asking for permission to run the software on six systems, and this in a profit-making enterprise! They agreed without hesitation, and didn't ask for one thin dime in compensation. I have since successfully used the same procedure with two other pieces of software used by clients.

If you can contact the publisher (or whoever has purchased the rights to publish the game) you might well be similarly treated.

I wish you good luck. I know what it is to lose a favorite to time!

Regards,
Jim

 

[Rigoletto]

OK this is an example, not a personal attack

I see some kind of self righteous holier-than-thou A**hole. Did they teach you that s*** at Sunday school? Go clap with the inbreds.

 

[Workin']

OK, I'll take the flame bait......


<< I see some kind of self righteous holier-than-thou A**hole. Did they teach you that s*** at Sunday school? Go clap with the inbreds. >>

Are you a total moron?? I SPECIFICALLY said it was a hypothetical example, looking at the question from a different perspective. I guess if someone doesn't agree with your first-grader's logic, then they are inbred. Seems like the other way around.....

 

[Mucman]

Jaywallen, that's interesting. I might try that for some programs. I am a beginner programmer and I wonder if they would let me see the source for some early stuff for learning experience? My goal in life is to become a game programmer and what better way to succeed than to learn from the best!

For example, I would love to see the source for Ultima 4 and how it all works. I have only taken one C++ course so far, but even in 3 months I have already learned some powerful techniques with really basic functions. I would just like to learn how to apply them now.

 

[jaywallen]

Some professional programmers, even some big-time ones, are very generous in dispensing information about their techniques. On the other hand, the companies who employ them and / or buy the rights to their source code seldom bear much resemblance Mother Theresa. It would be interesting to hear how you fare in your quest.

Regards,
Jim

A long time ago I did assembly for 65c02 and Zilog. When the objects in object-oriented program became more complex than me, I gave up.

 

[erikistired]

<< Is it OK if I steal from you if it is only a little and you aren't really watching and the bank is closed and I could really have some fun with that money? NO??? Boy, you are mean! >>



only if you stole monopoly money!!

~erik

i don't think this applies btw. stealing money is a little different from using software that you can no longer obtain!! i am not condoning abandonware, but i don't think one relates to the other. now if you were stealing money that was no longer usable, then it might be the same.

 

[DirkBelig]

I'm not sure of what the LEGAL take is on this, but the MORAL aspect is that it might be OK. Hear me out...

If a SW title has been abandoned by the developer or gone out of print or the company has disappeared into the mists of time, IF the title isn't being SOLD than it should be OK. If you WANTED to pay for it, YOU COULDN'T. A company couldn't start SELLING the stuff, but running a Sargasso website shouldn't be too big a hassle.

 

[Workin']

Just trying to provoke a little thought and some comment. It seems like a lot of the time people don't take the time to think about the repercussions of their actions, and a little introspection never hurt anyone.

This was an interesting topic Mucman brought up.

 

[erikistired]

i understand that workin', but my point is, if you can't pay for it, then what are you left with? it's not like he's downloading diablo 2 or quake 3. then you would be right, it is stealing. but if you can't get the program from a vendor or even the person/company that coded it, what are you left with? does it make it wrong if the only way to get the program is from someone else? i don't see the repercussions here..

~erik

 

[Mucman]

thanks Workin' , I agree with the legal vs. moral argument though. By definition abandonware is illegal, but moraly it doesn't seem wrong. When I see classic games in the stores I will buy them! I love my purchase of the Ultima Collection for $10, but most of the stuff I am finding right now is no where to be found. Has anyone every found Conquered Kingdoms or Star Legions in a store? I am a collector freak and I like to have everything a nice presentable way... that is why I still buy lots of CD's even though I could have gotten them off of napster. Something about the physical nature of having the product is very rewarding. I still own an intellivision, why? because I like to have things, whether they are of value or not. Anyways, I am digressing a bit; if I could go into Future Shop right now and pick up some 10yr old games in a bargain bin for next to nothing, I would definitely get all this old stuff. Since I can't, I am resorting to the only method (that I know of) in order to get this stuff.

 

[MadRat]

Quote me on this, &quot;Patents and Copyrights are moralely wrong.&quot;

Throw that into your scrap pile of whether its legal or morale.

 

[Workin']

<shrug> I know, I know, I was just trying to stir up the pot a little bit. If I was in your position I would download the abandoned stuff. And not feel guilty at all.

I just ran into a similar situation myself. Someone gave me an older Macintosh PowerBook (don't laugh, it was free), and it's not capable of running the latest version (or ever the latest 4 or 5 versions) of the Mac OS. Since they didn't have any of the disks that originally came with the computer, I had to find a different source for the OS. Checked all the stores (real and on-line), looked in all the other usual places. No luck. But here's a surprise - Apple recently made version 7.5.5 of their OS freely downloadable! It's a big download, but it saved me a lot of trouble. But really the point is I would have gotten it any way I could, beg, borrow, or steal.