Do you care at all that the PS3 will also play Blu-Ray movies?

[lokiju]

Well I'd consider Blu-Ray to be a plus if I were getting one but no way in hell I'm spending that kind of money.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

PS2 and XBox's DVD playback features seemed half assed compared to a true DVD player (not to forget both systems produce audible noise via fans whereas DVD players do not), I wouldn't expect the PS3 to be any different in the BD respect.

And I don't think you can justify the "poor person" approach as you could with the PS2, for several reasons:
1. poor people shouldn't have HDTVs to take advantage of BD
2. poor people shouldn't be spending $600 on a console

I would agree that having it as a player is a plus, but it?s more of a gimmick like temperature controlled seats in car. Nintendo has always had the right idea in that you?re buying a gaming system to game, whereas their competition is trying to push their systems because of other features with hopes that, once you have their system, you?re going to end up buying their games (which is where the profit is made).

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: mugs
I think your poll results may be skewed by this fact - many gamers were turned off by the $600 price tag. Home theater afficionados on the other hand are excited about the $600 price tag, because that is actually cheap for a BluRay player. So... it's not necessarily gamers who will be voting for the first option in your poll, it may be people who don't even plan to use it to play games.

Ummm... I'm not going to buy that this ridiculously small segment of people - namely those that will buy the PS3 BECAUSE $600 is cheap for a Blu Ray player - are skewing the poll results of this thread.

 

[loup garou]

Originally posted by: mugs
I think your poll results may be skewed by this fact - many gamers were turned off by the $600 price tag. Home theater afficionados on the other hand are excited about the $600 price tag, because that is actually cheap for a BluRay player. So... it's not necessarily gamers who will be voting for the first option in your poll, it may be people who don't even plan to use it to play games.

The Samsung BluRay player (as crappy as it is) is already $800, down from its $1k release price. I bet it's less than $600 by mid-November. Honestly, I wouldn't expect better performance/features than even this poor standalone player from a game console.

 

[HombrePequeno]

I don't plan on getting one but it would be nice to have.

Props for actually using couldn't care less instead of could care less.

 

[yllus]

I'd buy a PS3 if the price was much lower and there were good exclusive titles coming out for it, which there are not (Metal Gear Solid being the sole exception, never liked Gran Turismo all that much), I'd buy it.

Bluray is great and I'd love for a new hi-def DVD format to become mainstream to take full advantage of my 720p HDTV, but at $600+? No chance! I'll buy a $100 player a few years down the line, or more likely, a $200 HD-DVD add-on for my Xbox 360.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Ilmater

Originally posted by: mugs
Does your friend know that only about 10% of American households have an HDTV? That number will increase in the future, but I personally don't expect to own an HDTV in the next 3-5 years.

So no, the BluRay drive in the PS3 would not matter to me at all.

I don't plan to buy a PS3 but will buy a Wii and I'll eventually get a 360 when the prices are lower.

In all fairness, Blu Ray isn't ONLY about having HD output. It also offers more room for more extra features, though admittedly, I'd bet that few extra features are actually added.

Yeah, but Sony is doing it half-assed. They are using MPEG-2 for the movies while HD-DVD is using VC-1 (MPEG-4 codec). The picture quality for HD-DVD is looking much better thus far and they are doing it using less space.

Also, what tangible benefits come from all that space for gaming? The video card and CPU are the limiting factor for graphics. Sure you get some benefit from not having to unpack compressed data but you are also trying to stream over a lot of uncompressed data which can be a bottleneck as well.

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: Queasy
Yeah, but Sony is doing it half-assed. They are using MPEG-2 for the movies while HD-DVD is using VC-1 (MPEG-4 codec). The picture quality for HD-DVD is looking much better thus far and they are doing it using less space.

Also, what tangible benefits come from all that space for gaming? The video card and CPU are the limiting factor for graphics. Sure you get some benefit from not having to unpack compressed data but you are also trying to stream over a lot of uncompressed data which can be a bottleneck as well.

Wow, I didn't know that. That's even worse.

Oh well, as others have said: Wii FTWiin!!!

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Ilmater

Originally posted by: mugs
I think your poll results may be skewed by this fact - many gamers were turned off by the $600 price tag. Home theater afficionados on the other hand are excited about the $600 price tag, because that is actually cheap for a BluRay player. So... it's not necessarily gamers who will be voting for the first option in your poll, it may be people who don't even plan to use it to play games.

Ummm... I'm not going to buy that this ridiculously small segment of people - namely those that will buy the PS3 BECAUSE $600 is cheap for a Blu Ray player - are skewing the poll results of this thread.

Well, when they announced the price there were a lot of gamers saying they wouldn't buy it (I think a lot of those people are probably clicking your last option, which you were surprised by), and a lot of HT people excited by it. If more of the people in the "not buying and don't care" column were clicking "buying it and don't care" the results would make a little more sense considering how many people in the US actually have HDTVs. So I guess what I'm saying is it's the large number of gamers who WON'T be buying it who are skewing it.

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: Ilmater

Originally posted by: Queasy
Yeah, but Sony is doing it half-assed. They are using MPEG-2 for the movies while HD-DVD is using VC-1 (MPEG-4 codec). The picture quality for HD-DVD is looking much better thus far and they are doing it using less space.

Also, what tangible benefits come from all that space for gaming? The video card and CPU are the limiting factor for graphics. Sure you get some benefit from not having to unpack compressed data but you are also trying to stream over a lot of uncompressed data which can be a bottleneck as well.

Wow, I didn't know that. That's even worse.

Oh well, as others have said: 360 FTWiin!!!

fixed

 

[yllus]

HD-DVD versus Bluray: Microsoft employees weigh the pros and cons.

Disc Manufacturing
Bluray: Recording surface very close to the top layer of the disc - a 1.1mm substrate followed by the data layer, and a 0.1mm protective cover. High reliability of manufacturing thus becomes an issue as Bluray disc manufacturers try to apply a very thin protective layer and inevitably contaminate the data layer of a number of discs. Evidence of manufacturing issues? Current Bluray discs are shipping at half-capacity of what was originally announced; 25GB instead of 50GB per disc.

HD-DVD: Akin to current DVD manufacturing design, consists of a 0.6mm and 0.6mm sandwich with the data layer in the middle.

Commentary: Makes sense - no manufacturing process is perfect. Maximizing the amount of 'good' discs that come out of a production run relies heavily on simplifying the process as much as possible - less to go wrong and possibly spoil the disc. AS time goes on, the lessons learned by early mistakes should help to minimize this as an issue.


Copy Protection
Bluray: HD-DVD and Bluray share a common copy protection scheme known as AACS - the Advanced Access Content System. Bluray discs add an additional layer of copy protection in BD Plus, which reads and executes code off of the disc on the fly. BD Plus is an optional technology, but the added complexity for content providers and Bluray drive manufacturers alike was an issue to keep in mind.

HD-DVD: Uses AACS for copy protection.

Commentary: Will result in higher-priced Bluray players when priced against HD-DVD hardware - the requirement on the player's CPU will be greater, leading to a need for a more powerful CPU or additional specialized hardware that handles the on-the-fly BD Plus decoding. Like not a long term issue from the price perspective, as consumer electronics such as media players quickly drop in price as competitors pile in to wage battle for marketshare.


Video Compression Scheme (Codecs)
With a 1-gigabit per second bandwidth requirement for uncompressed high definition (1080p) video, there is a clear need for a codec to fit a feature-length movie on a 25GB or 30GB disc. Both Bluray and HD-DVD support three codecs: MPEG2, the scheme used today on DVDs, and two new codecs, Microsoft's VC-1, and H.264 MPEG4. All Bluray and HD-DVD players support each of the three codecs. The actual decision of which codec to use falls on the content provider.

Bluray: Currently a 25GB disc, supports all three codec standards. Bluray studios currently making use of MPEG2, a less efficient compression scheme by a factor of 2x or 3x than VC-1 (a comparison to H.264 MPEG4 was not made). This requires that a higher compression ratio is used, which amounts to more data containing information about how the picture should be represented is thrown away. In other words, lowered video quality due to the inefficient use of space available on the disc.

HD-DVD: Currently a 15GB or 30GB disc, supporting all three codec standards. All HD-DVD studios are making use of VC-1 on 30GB discs, with special assistance by Microsoft being provided to each with the goal of optimizing video quality.

Commentary: This is the strongest argument against Bluray. The use of MPEG2 over a newer compression scheme will in most cases result in a lower quality picture. Consumers will likely not care a whit for the issues encountered by content providers or player manufacturers, but tangibly better quality from a HD-DVD disc will hurt Bluray's chances badly.


Hybrid Disc Technology
Hybrid discs would allow a regular DVD player to display content on one side of the disc, and a Bluray or HD-DVD player to show the same content in high definition on the other side.

Bluray: No commercial reality for hybrid discs at the current time.

HD-DVD: Hybrid DVD/HD-DVD discs are already shipping.

Commentary: Insigificant to the vast majority of consumers. Who needs a movie released today so badly that they need a hybrid disc, and can't either rent it, or just wait 6-8 months to buy a regular HD-DVD or Bluray disc after the format war shakes out a little more? That is, unless the cost difference of a hybrid disc and regular DVD is neglible.


Transfer Rate
Like DVDs, Bluray and HD-DVD will also be useful for regular data storage - most of us know how limiting a 4.7GB disc is when the time comes to do a backup of our ever-larger hard drives.

Bluray: Faster transfer rate - ~10Mbit/sec faster than HD-DVD.

HD-DVD: While slower in sheer transfer rate, the use of a superior video codec results in a negligible difference where a movie player is concerned. The use of a red laser (opposed to the newer technology blue) and the large amount of industry experience with it allows for a higher disc spin speed to further negate the transfer rate advantage of Bluray.

Commentary: The difference in seek times, a key issue in the use of next-gen players as data drives, was not discussed. While the two formats appear equal in terms of video data transfer (a constant stream of bits), the data storage argument likely falls in favour of Bluray.


Network Connectivity
Bluray: Optional network connection interface.

HD-DVD: Mandatory network connection interface (Ethernet, no doubt). Allows for streamed content over the Internet to your player, a la Xbox 360 + Xbox Live. Also allows for occasional player updates, new language content, and - this went unmentioned during the podcast but I'll include myself - the ability to hack and upload new instructions onto your home HD-DVD player.

Comments: With MS being in the HD-DVD camp, the features of Bluray discs go unmentioned. We can safely theorize, I imagine, that the things mentioned above are likely identical across the board.


Movie Studio Support
Bluray: Paramount, Warner Brothers, Sony, Fox, Disney.

HD-DVD: Universal, Paramount, Warner Brothers, Studio Canale. Amir points out that Warner put out 50% of the top movies of the last year - quality over quantity?

Commentary: Amir points out that movie studios could not care less about what format wins, as long as people are buying one or the other. In this he's right - we've seen this illustrated brilliantly in the video game console wars between the Sony PlayStation 2 and the original Microsoft Xbox. The majority of content will go wherever people are willing to buy it.

Disclaimer: The following arguments were posed by Microsoft employees and semi-faithfully transcribed by yours truly.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: CVSiN

Originally posted by: Ilmater

Originally posted by: Queasy
Yeah, but Sony is doing it half-assed. They are using MPEG-2 for the movies while HD-DVD is using VC-1 (MPEG-4 codec). The picture quality for HD-DVD is looking much better thus far and they are doing it using less space.

Also, what tangible benefits come from all that space for gaming? The video card and CPU are the limiting factor for graphics. Sure you get some benefit from not having to unpack compressed data but you are also trying to stream over a lot of uncompressed data which can be a bottleneck as well.

Wow, I didn't know that. That's even worse.

Oh well, as others have said: 360 FTWiin!!!

fixed

Can't get over the Nintendo hate?

 

[toekramp]

Originally posted by: JS80
Wii FTWiin

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: CVSiN

Originally posted by: Ilmater
Wow, I didn't know that. That's even worse.

Oh well, as others have said: 360 FTWiin!!!

fixed

Yeah, I might get a 360 myself, but not until the price comes down below $200. For now, the Wii seems to actually be INNOVATIVE (rather than just putting the fastest hardware in the thing) and cheap... a nice combo.

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: CVSiN

Originally posted by: Ilmater

Originally posted by: Queasy
Yeah, but Sony is doing it half-assed. They are using MPEG-2 for the movies while HD-DVD is using VC-1 (MPEG-4 codec). The picture quality for HD-DVD is looking much better thus far and they are doing it using less space.

Also, what tangible benefits come from all that space for gaming? The video card and CPU are the limiting factor for graphics. Sure you get some benefit from not having to unpack compressed data but you are also trying to stream over a lot of uncompressed data which can be a bottleneck as well.

Wow, I didn't know that. That's even worse.

Oh well, as others have said: 360 FTWiin!!!

fixed

Can't get over the Nintendo hate?

Not really hate man.. just lack of intrest in what they bring to the table..

dont like the controls.. dont like the games.. dont like the several year old tech..

360 and PS3 and PC are really the only true options for adult gamers..

unless of course you like mario... i dont..

 

[Reckoner]

HD-DVD's gonna win the format war. Why wait for blu-ray to fix it's cropping/overall picture quality problems when you already have HD-DVD players that are delivering?

 

[AznAnarchy99]

Wii looks so much fun. Xbox only has Halo going for it. PS3 doesnt have any games going for it that i would like except maybe Call of Duty 3 but id rather have it on PC anyway.

 

[dxkj]

Originally posted by: Ilmater
I don't believe that the Blu-Ray player feature of the PS3 is actually driving anyone to buy the PS3. Is it helping you justify buying one, or for those of you that aren't buying it, do you care that it has that function?

EDIT: WOW! Right now, 13 of 15 respondants don't even plan on getting a PS3. Didn't see that coming.

u = pwned


of those who plan to get one

13 def care
4 think it is nice
3 couldnt care less

ouch

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
I don't plan on getting one but it would be nice to have.

Props for actually using couldn't care less instead of could care less.

I'm also a grammar Nazi, so I'm not going to make that mistake.

 

[z0mb13]

83 dont plan to get one and dont care about blu ray

sony = pwned

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: AznAnarchy99
Wii looks so much fun. Xbox only has Halo going for it. PS3 doesnt have any games going for it that i would like except maybe Call of Duty 3 but id rather have it on PC anyway.

Forza 2

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: AznAnarchy99
Wii looks so much fun. Xbox only has Halo going for it. PS3 doesnt have any games going for it that i would like except maybe Call of Duty 3 but id rather have it on PC anyway.

Halo is not all the 360 has going for it...

Dead Rising..Test Drive Unlimited, Forza 2, Saints Row, and the list goes on and on...
and halo is not on the list.. as it will be yet another tired Halo game the same as the first and the second... both which SUCKED..

 

[FoBoT]

I don't plan to get one, and couldn't care less

i have never owned a sony game thing

i had a sega genesis back in the day
i got an xbox 2-3 years ago
i got a game cube last christmas

i may get a wiiiiiiiiii next summer. or not. if its cheap. or not. i might get a xbox360 in 2-4 years when the price drops

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: dxkj
u = pwned


of those who plan to get one

13 def care
4 think it is nice
3 couldnt care less

ouch

Hardly... I think my wording was just off. The fact that most people don't want to buy one at all is very telling. Plus, I just worded it that people that are already buying it are "definitely interested" in that feature. Hey, if I were dumb enough to pay $600 for that fvcking POS, I would be "definitely interested" in every feature that that $600 was buying me as well.

 

[Fraggable]

$600 for a console and $50-90 for games? You've gotta be kidding. I have no use for blu-ray, having only a 720p display and no plans or budget to upgrade. If I had $600 for video games it would go straight to my computer, something I can do other things on and even play free games. Hey I could build a decent computer for that much.