Do you believe in fate?

[ShadowOfMyself]

So, I was here thinking, and I am sure many people have thought about the same before, but its always fun to discuss it, isnt it?

I have come to the conclusion that things arent just black or white, and while this might make many of you go "no ****** sherlock" its not that obvious...

If you believe in fate, you believe everything is meant to happen, so you cant believe in coincidence, and the opposite is also true... But I have been thinking a lot about it, and I think its actually somewhere between

Picture life as an RPG game, just like WOW or Diablo or Final Fantasy, whatever, the system is always the same, you have the "Main quest" that you need to complete to finish the game, and you have all the side quests you can do whenever you want etc... Ultimately, this means there are some things you CAN change, and some things you CANT, no matter what, it just wont happen

All this means I believe our free will only goes so far, but there are some things we just cant change, and for all the "fate is nonsense, I control my life" people (I used to be like that) did you ever try thinking backwards?

Pick up a cup of coffee...

Done?

Question: Why did you pick it up? Because you found this thread and I told you to pick it up, and why did you find this thread? Because you were browsing ATOT, and why were you browsing ATOT? Because blablabla whatever, and the thing is, for all of us, if you keep following the chain of events that lead you to pick that cup, you will go back to the very first thing you did after you were born

Question - Does fate still sound so absurd? Think about it, your very first action here shaped your life in such a way that lead you to read this right now... isnt that fun? And worse is when you think before you were born, it goes back to our parents, and their parents, etc, back the to beginning of all existence or whatever... *head explodes*

Ok Im done here, just wanted to share my point of view and hear some theories from people!

 

[CKent]

Nope

 

[JackBurton]

No.

 

[NanoStuff]

You're mostly correct. We don't and in fact cannot control our own responses. It's impossible for a physical system to dictate it's own state. The state is a derivative of predecessing conditions.

However this doesn't necessarily imply fate because fate requires the future to be predetermined. There is random variation on the quantum scale thus the exact same initial conditions may not necessarily result in two same outcomes.

So in conclusion, we don't have control over what we do, even though the illusion of the fact is very convincing. But the future is not written yet, so realistically anything could happen.

 

[TallBill]

Nothing in the future is predisposed, so no I don't believe in fate at all. Its a silly notion.

 

[moshquerade]

i believe things happen for a reason, and that our destination is predetermined... so yeh, that's sorta like fate.

 

[everman]

I defeated fate in chrono cross, so no not anymore.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

I believe there is no such thing as fate. I believe that for every action, every possible thing that could have happened at that instant happens, which means that predetermining things is meaningless.

 

[Siddhartha]

I always thought that fate and religion in gerneral were examples of wishful thinking. I can not imagine that everything is set up to revolve around me or anyone else.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
You're mostly correct. We don't and in fact cannot control our own responses. It's impossible for a physical system to dictate it's own state. The state is a derivative of predecessing conditions.

However this doesn't necessarily imply fate because fate requires the future to be predetermined. There is random variation on the quantum scale thus the exact same initial conditions may not necessarily result in two same outcomes.

So in conclusion, we don't have control over what we do, even though the illusion of the fact is very convincing. But the future is not written yet, so realistically anything could happen.

could you please speak understandable english>??

 

[randomint]

Yes and i also believe that i have complete free will

 

[ppdes]

I think we're all just complex biological machines and would always react the same to the same inputs. Does that count?

 

[IGBT]

no. I beleve if you play basket ball on the freeway you will get hit weather it's your time or not.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
i believe things happen for a reason, and that our destination is predetermined... so yeh, that's sorta like fate.

That's a self fulfilling prophecy. You want to believe it, so you justify whatever happens after the fact. I've always thought this stupid. You may as well think there's some person pulling strings and that we're all puppets. Fate is what happens when you are powerless to affect the future. "There is absolutely no inevitability as long as there is a willingness to contemplate what is happening." - Marshall McLuhan

 

[blue1friday2]

It's the old free-will vs. determinism argument. Been around for ages and ages.

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
So, I was here thinking, and I am sure many people have thought about the same before, but its always fun to discuss it, isnt it?

I have come to the conclusion that things arent just black or white, and while this might make many of you go "no ****** sherlock" its not that obvious...

If you believe in fate, you believe everything is meant to happen, so you cant believe in coincidence, and the opposite is also true... But I have been thinking a lot about it, and I think its actually somewhere between

Picture life as an RPG game, just like WOW or Diablo or Final Fantasy, whatever, the system is always the same, you have the "Main quest" that you need to complete to finish the game, and you have all the side quests you can do whenever you want etc... Ultimately, this means there are some things you CAN change, and some things you CANT, no matter what, it just wont happen

All this means I believe our free will only goes so far, but there are some things we just cant change, and for all the "fate is nonsense, I control my life" people (I used to be like that) did you ever try thinking backwards?

Pick up a cup of coffee...

Done?

Question: Why did you pick it up? Because you found this thread and I told you to pick it up, and why did you find this thread? Because you were browsing ATOT, and why were you browsing ATOT? Because blablabla whatever, and the thing is, for all of us, if you keep following the chain of events that lead you to pick that cup, you will go back to the very first thing you did after you were born

Question - Does fate still sound so absurd? Think about it, your very first action here shaped your life in such a way that lead you to read this right now... isnt that fun? And worse is when you think before you were born, it goes back to our parents, and their parents, etc, back the to beginning of all existence or whatever... *head explodes*

Ok Im done here, just wanted to share my point of view and hear some theories from people!

i didnt use to believe, but after your explaination, i'm convinced.

what's your next step?

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: moshquerade
i believe things happen for a reason, and that our destination is predetermined... so yeh, that's sorta like fate.

That's a self fulfilling prophecy. You want to believe it, so you justify whatever happens after the fact. I've always thought this stupid. You may as well think there's some person pulling strings and that we're all puppets. Fate is what happens when you are powerless to affect the future. "There is absolutely no inevitability as long as there is a willingness to contemplate what is happening." - Marshall McLuhan

I do think there is someone pulling strings, and he knows where we will end up.

For every quote you can find to the contrary there is one written that contradicts it.

 

[PHiuR]

I believe in the lazy and the less-lazy.

 

[NaOH]

You just opened up pandora's box. Good day to you

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: moshquerade
i believe things happen for a reason, and that our destination is predetermined... so yeh, that's sorta like fate.

That's a self fulfilling prophecy. You want to believe it, so you justify whatever happens after the fact. I've always thought this stupid. You may as well think there's some person pulling strings and that we're all puppets. Fate is what happens when you are powerless to affect the future. "There is absolutely no inevitability as long as there is a willingness to contemplate what is happening." - Marshall McLuhan

I don't know who this Marshall fella is, but the poor bastard may have been wrong all his life and didn't know it.

When you 'choose' to raise your hand, you're not doing it simply because you made the voluntary decision to do so. That voluntary decision was influenced by the circumstances that surrounded it, circumstances determined by previous circumstances. Everything in the universe is causal, if you raise your hand, something caused it to happen. A process in your brain of which you weren't aware, even thought the same process created the sensation of what you call consciousness and illusion of control of your own state of mind.

A ball doesn't control where it rolls, the sun doesn't control how bright it shines, you don't control what you think. You think you do, and that's just it. I certainly made no free will decision to make this post, you caused me to do it. What if I cancel right now? Would I be breaking the inevitable? Nope, because again, all the electrons in my brain bouncing around just so happened to reach a state that caused me to click cancel, a flow which I have no control over.

It's not that us humans are freaks of fate. No being in this universe could possibly control their own state. Controlling your own state of mind would be controlling nature, which would be controlling natural, fairly deterministic physical processes through an external system that is not associated with those processes. The only hypothetical possibility for that could be god, but then again there's no physical way to describe god because such could not physically exist. You're just nature's bitch and you're being taken for a ride. Some say it doesn't really matter, and I agree, it certainly doesn't change my perspective on life, but that doesn't stop my understanding of it.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
So, I was here thinking, and I am sure many people have thought about the same before, but its always fun to discuss it, isnt it?

I have come to the conclusion that things arent just black or white, and while this might make many of you go "no ****** sherlock" its not that obvious...

If you believe in fate, you believe everything is meant to happen, so you cant believe in coincidence, and the opposite is also true... But I have been thinking a lot about it, and I think its actually somewhere between

Picture life as an RPG game, just like WOW or Diablo or Final Fantasy, whatever, the system is always the same, you have the "Main quest" that you need to complete to finish the game, and you have all the side quests you can do whenever you want etc... Ultimately, this means there are some things you CAN change, and some things you CANT, no matter what, it just wont happen

All this means I believe our free will only goes so far, but there are some things we just cant change, and for all the "fate is nonsense, I control my life" people (I used to be like that) did you ever try thinking backwards?

Pick up a cup of coffee...

Done?

Question: Why did you pick it up? Because you found this thread and I told you to pick it up, and why did you find this thread? Because you were browsing ATOT, and why were you browsing ATOT? Because blablabla whatever, and the thing is, for all of us, if you keep following the chain of events that lead you to pick that cup, you will go back to the very first thing you did after you were born

Question - Does fate still sound so absurd? Think about it, your very first action here shaped your life in such a way that lead you to read this right now... isnt that fun? And worse is when you think before you were born, it goes back to our parents, and their parents, etc, back the to beginning of all existence or whatever... *head explodes*

Ok Im done here, just wanted to share my point of view and hear some theories from people!

i didnt use to believe, but after your explaination, i'm convinced.

what's your next step?

Heh I cant see if thats sarcasm or not, but this is just a philosophical theory as you know, so it makes absolutely no difference... I mean, whether life is pre determined or not, we wont ever know, because for every action we do, there will always be an "what if I had done something else?"

I guess I just wanted to speculate a bit, know what everybody thinks etc

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: moshquerade
i believe things happen for a reason, and that our destination is predetermined... so yeh, that's sorta like fate.

That's a self fulfilling prophecy. You want to believe it, so you justify whatever happens after the fact. I've always thought this stupid. You may as well think there's some person pulling strings and that we're all puppets. Fate is what happens when you are powerless to affect the future. "There is absolutely no inevitability as long as there is a willingness to contemplate what is happening." - Marshall McLuhan

I agree 100% with Nanostuff, but I also want to mention something quick here

Do you really believe there is no person pulling strings? How can you know? Its interesting Nanostuff mentioned God, because its exactly like that... I am a non believer btw, simply because I dont have a reason to believe there is one, but for all I care, I could be an experiment in a lab, and not know it... We could all be living a dream... Hell, you could all be creations of my own dream (Vanilla Sky comes to mind)

That still wont affect the way I do things, just like the belief or non belief of God should not affect how you do things, because in the end, everything will happen exactly as it does

 

[Flyback]

If you believe in a multiverse theory it doesn't matter considering you technically made all of the possible choices anyways :laugh:

 

[Skotty]

As Garek would say...

"I believe in coincidences. But I don't *trust* coincidences."

I believe in free will. Fate is possible at the same time, if used only in the looser sense. A la "no fate but what you make". In this looser sense, fate is not predetermined, but based on the choices we make; fate being what eventually happened, and not what will happen in the future.