Do you believe in American exceptionalism?

[Fayd]

My objection is that somehow the Gold Standard had anything to do with it.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/gold+standard

pretty sure he's using the second definition there.

 

[sandorski]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/gold+standard

pretty sure he's using the second definition there.

ahh, that could be.

 

[Blanky]

If it only took 20 posts to start talking about the gold standard I expect somebody will bitch about Obama ruining America inside of the next 10.

 

[alcoholbob]

My objection is that somehow the Gold Standard had anything to do with it.

But that wasn't even my point, nor did I claim the gold standard was the primary reason for America's wealth during this period, nor would I since I believe you can achieve the same thing with sound monetary policy; I referred to the period under which America was under the gold standard was which the concept of American exceptionalism came about.

Would you disagree the concept of America exceptionalism came about during this period? If so, then what period would you say American exceptionalism came about?

 

[sandorski]

But that wasn't even my point, nor did I claim the gold standard was the primary reason for America's wealth during this period, nor would I since I believe you can achieve the same thing with sound monetary policy; I referred to the period under which America was under the gold standard was which the concept of American exceptionalism came about.

Would you disagree the concept of America exceptionalism came about during this period? If so, then what period would you say American exceptionalism came about?

Sure, it happened then, but I don't see how that relates.

 

[pcgeek11]

America is exceptional in believing it's exceptional.

It's infrastructure is shit - internet, bridges, electrical, rails. It operates inefficiently, due to money being wasted at all times (giving money to those who don't need it). It has crap political leadership, because it bends to the needs and wants of those who have money.

But, worst of all; the common citizen usually blindly follows liars and goes after/blames whomever or whatever the liars say.

Sounds like you need to relocate. Please.

 

[norseamd]

No.

Any society that is ideologically against intelligence and honor can not in any right mind be considered somehow exceptional over every other human or culture.

 

[norseamd]

There were a lot of "exceptional" civilizations in history, to the point that they aren't exceptions but the rule.

Exactly.

 

[mindmajick]

Sounds like you need to relocate. Please.

Meh. Whether i agree or disagree with the guy makes no difference.

I will say that one of the great things about our country is our Freedom of speech. For example, i may not like what the KKK has to say but I'm proud of their right to say it and still be Free.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Of course, America is more gooder than sliced bread and peanut butter,

 

[finglobes]

"American exceptionalism" is a simple matter. America was the first modern country formed where:


A) Rights are seen as derived from the truths/principles from a creator, and higher than the opions/whims of a people, state etc. The French Revolution on the other hand had no such basis and thats a major difference. People who can create rights can uncreate them. The fact America looks to a higher foundation is exceptional.


B) The citizens are "sovereign" in US - meaning the citizens are the ultimate power and authority - and not the king, state, party etc ( "government of the people, by the people, for the people" etc). No country was formed on that basis. The right of US citizens to arms is inseperable from a people being soverign power. If people can't have arms then they aren't soverign because someone else is calling the tune. The left as a matter of observable fact do not believe in soverign citizens - a sure sign that "American exceptionalism" doesn't mean its people are better

 

[WelshBloke]

I've never been to a part in EU where 70% of the people invited bust out their own bag of kindbud, or a kegger. In the US, you can walk down the street, see a party, walk in, say "hi, i just walked in, can i get a brew" and people will just beer you. In EU, they would kick you out and yell furiously.

There is no casual sex in EU. Marriage looms like the spectre of death over every kiss. There's no working out, rocking out, copping out, dropping out. There's just study/work, keep your head down, and don't criticize your boss.
You are also practically not allowed to change jobs, ever.

You have lead a very sheltered life then.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEyUWKJFER8


I don't usually agree with Aaron Sorkin politically, but this sums it up. We used to be exceptional, but now we're a shithole with delusions of glory.

 

[norseamd]

"American exceptionalism" is a simple matter. America was the first modern country formed where:


A) Rights are seen as derived from the truths/principles from a creator, and higher than the opions/whims of a people, state etc. The French Revolution on the other hand had no such basis and thats a major difference. People who can create rights can uncreate them. The fact America looks to a higher foundation is exceptional.


B) The citizens are "sovereign" in US - meaning the citizens are the ultimate power and authority - and not the king, state, party etc ( "government of the people, by the people, for the people" etc). No country was formed on that basis. The right of US citizens to arms is inseperable from a people being soverign power. If people can't have arms then they aren't soverign because someone else is calling the tune. The left as a matter of observable fact do not believe in soverign citizens - a sure sign that "American exceptionalism" doesn't mean its people are better

This is pure delusional bullshit.

 

[Moonbeam]

This is pure delusional bullshit.

He's pretty delusional in my opinion too, but I think you should address what about his statement is delusional rather than making that general claim as it carries no weight, except as opinion, otherwise.

 

[norseamd]

He's pretty delusional in my opinion too, but I think you should address what about his statement is delusional rather than making that general claim as it carries no weight, except as opinion, otherwise.

For one the idea that America was the first country where the power of the state was considered as belonging to the citizens of the country.

 

[pcgeek11]

For one the idea that America was the first country where the power of the state was considered as belonging to the citizens of the country.

Name some others before the USA.

 

[norseamd]

Name some others before the USA.

The Athenians.

 

[amyklai]

here is how i feel about america and americans. premise: i'm european.

people in the US are better than in EU. and they can be worse as well, both come from the same difference between the two "worlds", the old world (EU) and the US.

in EU, you "are" the job you work at. At most, you are your degree, but even that is stretching it. If you are a plumber, then everyone thinks thats all you are. You are not allowed any dreams, aspirations, hobbies, or personality.

In the US, you can work at a starbucks, and you can introduce yourself to people as "i'm a artist" or "i'm gonna be a financial genius" and people will take your word for it.
Of course, then you have to come through; you gotta deliver. But no US person will say "you aren't shit because you don't work in any job related to what you want to be", while in EU that's standard for pretty much everyone.

In the US you are allowed to be completely crazy. You can go to someone and start talking about how aliens abducted Elvis and killed Kennedy, and people are cool with that; "he's weird" is about as bad as you are going to be judged.

In EU, if you don't follow a strict and expansive unwritten ruleset, you become untouchable. Having any complex conceptual opinion is considered dangerous and you will be warned that anyone who dares follow his dreams or ideology will "wind up in a bad way".

I've never been to a part in EU where 70% of the people invited bust out their own bag of kindbud, or a kegger. In the US, you can walk down the street, see a party, walk in, say "hi, i just walked in, can i get a brew" and people will just beer you. In EU, they would kick you out and yell furiously.

There is no casual sex in EU. Marriage looms like the spectre of death over every kiss. There's no working out, rocking out, copping out, dropping out. There's just study/work, keep your head down, and don't criticize your boss.
You are also practically not allowed to change jobs, ever.

We have stability. The US has freedom. Our downside is boredom, yours is madness.

(mind you, it's not legal freedom i'm talking about - it's social freedom)

As a EU citizen, I have to say your personal downside seems to be a sort of madness that leads to terrible boredom.

And if this nightmare doesn't only exist in your head then at least I'm very happy never to have seen the depressing region of the EU that you seem to live in.

 

[amyklai]

Name some others before the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_democracy

 

[Atreus21]

OP, if you're interested in the subject, read Chesterton's "What I saw in America."

It's in the public domain now, so you can see the whole thing on Project Gutenburg.

 

[norseamd]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_America

 

[norseamd]

Here is the Project Gutenburg translation of the primary document.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/815/815-h/815-h.htm

 

[blastingcap]

Do you believe in American exceptionalism? And why?

- defined in this thread as the idea that the USA is inherently better and different than any other country.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

Your own link doesn't say that the USA is "inherently" "better" just "different' than any other country. A subset of people believe the "better" part.

However, you are free to define the term however you wish in this thread.

I don't think the US is "inherently" "better," though in some ways it's an extreme outlier among OECD countries, on matters like paid maternity leave and gun control.

(For the record, I'm pro-paid maternity leave and pro-sensible gun control, stuff like kneejerk Chicago and DC gun laws are not sensible, but forbidding the mentally ill from procuring firearms is sensible.)

I do believe that the US would be better off with a parliamentary system so you don't have so many situations like Congress deliberately sabotaging a President and thus nothing getting done. In a Parliamentary system, you never get breakdown that bad because the Prime Minister's coalition would fail by that point.

Lastly, by virtue of its sheer size in the global economy, the US has been exceptional for a long time. However that is scheduled to change:

http://monitor.icef.com/2015/03/global-economic-power-projected-shift-asia-emerging-economies-2050/

Depending on whether you adjust for cost of living or not, China is already challenging the US's share of the global economy, and by 2050 there is no doubt that the old powers will have faded. Now, that's total economic output, not output per person, so China would still be poorer PER PERSON. Still, absolute size matters--a lot. E.g., if GDP per capita in Luxembourg were higher than in the US, Luxembourg still wouldn't have much clout in geopolitics due to their tiny GDP and population.

So I think the world will turn more and more bi-polar with the US and China as the great powers by sheer size.

Russia's economy has never been big enough to challenge the US; they bankrupted themselves in the Cold War arms race and even today they are already slipping behind Brazil's GDP.

Btw, PwC is smoking crack about India growing to rival US GDP by 2050; India has a lot of cultural, political, environmental, and infrastructure issues.

here is how i feel about america and americans. premise: i'm european.

people in the US are better than in EU. and they can be worse as well, both come from the same difference between the two "worlds", the old world (EU) and the US.

in EU, you "are" the job you work at. At most, you are your degree, but even that is stretching it. If you are a plumber, then everyone thinks thats all you are. You are not allowed any dreams, aspirations, hobbies, or personality.

In the US, you can work at a starbucks, and you can introduce yourself to people as "i'm a artist" or "i'm gonna be a financial genius" and people will take your word for it.
Of course, then you have to come through; you gotta deliver. But no US person will say "you aren't shit because you don't work in any job related to what you want to be", while in EU that's standard for pretty much everyone.

In the US you are allowed to be completely crazy. You can go to someone and start talking about how aliens abducted Elvis and killed Kennedy, and people are cool with that; "he's weird" is about as bad as you are going to be judged.

In EU, if you don't follow a strict and expansive unwritten ruleset, you become untouchable. Having any complex conceptual opinion is considered dangerous and you will be warned that anyone who dares follow his dreams or ideology will "wind up in a bad way".

I've never been to a part in EU where 70% of the people invited bust out their own bag of kindbud, or a kegger. In the US, you can walk down the street, see a party, walk in, say "hi, i just walked in, can i get a brew" and people will just beer you. In EU, they would kick you out and yell furiously.

There is no casual sex in EU. Marriage looms like the spectre of death over every kiss. There's no working out, rocking out, copping out, dropping out. There's just study/work, keep your head down, and don't criticize your boss.
You are also practically not allowed to change jobs, ever.

We have stability. The US has freedom. Our downside is boredom, yours is madness.

(mind you, it's not legal freedom i'm talking about - it's social freedom)

I don't believe your views are necessarily representative of all of Europe. Especially the casual sex part, lol. Have you been to the UK for instance?

As a EU citizen, I have to say your personal downside seems to be a sort of madness that leads to terrible boredom.

And if this nightmare doesn't only exist in your head then at least I'm very happy never to have seen the depressing region of the EU that you seem to live in.

Yeah I'm curious where DigDog lives. But you can be depressed in any place on earth if you try hard enough.

 

[mindmajick]

Your own link doesn't say that the USA is "inherently" "better" just "different' than any other country. A subset of people believe the "better" part.

However, you are free to define the term however you wish in this thread.

I don't think the US is "inherently" "better," though in some ways it's an extreme outlier among OECD countries, on matters like paid maternity leave and gun control.

(For the record, I'm pro-paid maternity leave and pro-sensible gun control, stuff like kneejerk Chicago and DC gun laws are not sensible, but forbidding the mentally ill from procuring firearms is sensible.)

I do believe that the US would be better off with a parliamentary system so you don't have so many situations like Congress deliberately sabotaging a President and thus nothing getting done. In a Parliamentary system, you never get breakdown that bad because the Prime Minister's coalition would fail by that point.

Lastly, by virtue of its sheer size in the global economy, the US has been exceptional for a long time. However that is scheduled to change:

http://monitor.icef.com/2015/03/global-economic-power-projected-shift-asia-emerging-economies-2050/

Depending on whether you adjust for cost of living or not, China is already challenging the US's share of the global economy, and by 2050 there is no doubt that the old powers will have faded. Now, that's total economic output, not output per person, so China would still be poorer PER PERSON. Still, absolute size matters--a lot. E.g., if GDP per capita in Luxembourg were higher than in the US, Luxembourg still wouldn't have much clout in geopolitics due to their tiny GDP and population.

So I think the world will turn more and more bi-polar with the US and China as the great powers by sheer size.

Russia's economy has never been big enough to challenge the US; they bankrupted themselves in the Cold War arms race and even today they are already slipping behind Brazil's GDP.

Btw, PwC is smoking crack about India growing to rival US GDP by 2050; India has a lot of cultural, political, environmental, and infrastructure issues.



I don't believe your views are necessarily representative of all of Europe. Especially the casual sex part, lol. Have you been to the UK for instance?



Yeah I'm curious where DigDog lives. But you can be depressed in any place on earth if you try hard enough.

Agreed. That is what the link says. I was trying to ask the question without adding too much personal bias so as not to influence the answer.

But, as one living in the United states, I believe the term and the idea to be what I defined.

I'm trying to learn more about what my countrymen believe and what others outside the country believe to obtain a more complete picture of the subject.

::whew::

I enjoyed your post. Thank you.