Do you believe in a god?

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: Quintox
I am a deist I think

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

Features of deism

[edit] Critical and constructive deism

The concept of deism covers a wide variety of positions on a wide variety of religious issues. Following Sir Leslie Stephen's English Thought in the Eighteenth Century, most commentators agree that two features constituted the core of deism:

* The rejection of revealed religion ? this was the critical aspect of deism.
* The belief that reason, not faith, leads us to certain basic religious truths ? this was the positive or constructive aspect of deism.

Deist authors advocated a combination of both critical and constructive elements in proportions and emphases that varied from author to author.

Critical elements of deist thought included:

* Rejection of all religions based on books that claim to contain the revealed word of God.
* Rejection of reports of miracles, prophecies and religious "mysteries".
* Rejection of the Genesis account of creation and the doctrine of original sin, along with all similar beliefs.
* Rejection of Judaism, Christianity, Islam and other religious beliefs.

Constructive elements of deist thought included:

* God gave men reason.
* God exists, created and governs the universe.
* God wants human beings to behave morally.
* Human beings have souls that survive death; that is, there is an afterlife.

Specific thoughts on aspects of the afterlife will vary. While there are those who maintain that God will punish or reward us according to our behavior on Earth, likewise there are those who assert that any punishment or reward that is due to us is given during our mortal stay on Earth. Some do not believe in an afterlife.

Individual deists varied in the set of critical and constructive elements for which they argued. Some deists rejected miracles and prophecies but still considered themselves Christians because they believed in what they felt to be the pure, original form of Christianity ? that is, Christianity as it existed before it was corrupted by additions of such superstitions as miracles, prophecies, and the doctrine of the Trinity. Some deists rejected the claim of Jesus' divinity but continued to hold him in high regard as a moral teacher (see, e.g., Thomas Jefferson's famous Jefferson Bible and Matthew Tindal's 'Christianity as Old as the Creation'). Other, more radical deists rejected Christianity altogether and expressed hostility toward Christianity, which they regarded as pure superstition. In return, Christian writers often charged radical deists with atheism.

Note that the terms constructive and critical are used to refer to aspects of deistic thought, not sects or subtypes of deism ? it would be incorrect to classify any particular deist author as "a constructive deist" or "a critical deist".

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: CKent
A lot of religious people are bright, creative free thinkers. One certain belief doesn't make someone an idiot. Every group has its retards, you can't stereotype the group based only on the retards. They tend to wear their group's moniker as a badge and seem more numerous than they really are.

What's truly amazing is how many bright people actually believe in religious non-sense. These are people that use logic in every other aspect of their lives, but then believe in ridiculous religious stories. It's actually quite puzzling.

I doubt it's a rational decision. I think most of our behavior and even thinking are genetically predispositioned, much moreso than we like to think in the western world, where we believe we're free and the sky's the limit.

Originally posted by: irishScott
I didn't say "he who makes a decision is arrogant". I said "he who thinks that logic is the only possible means of perception is arrogant". Slightly more specific.

Likewise, I am Deist. I believe God exists. I don't claim to "know" shit (ie: I don't follow religious texts and don't believe Jesus was the Son of God or anything similar).

I was taking a dig at godlessastronomer, not you Your post just loosely fit.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
Yes I believe. Because if there was no God I would not be here right now. The fact that everything in the universe and on the earth (that we did not destroy yet) is so balanced and made prefect, shows that our existence is not just some freak accident from an explosion that happens out of nowhere with no substance or anything to even cause it. Santa Claus existing is more possible then the big bang theory. People who believe in that stuff are WAY too gullible.

And if the Universe didn't have this "perfect balance," we wouldn't be here to ask why it was so messed up.
Besides, the Universe is perfect for life???? 99.99999...............% of the Universe is deadly to us. Hell, even most of the volume of this here planet of ours is unsuitable for life. Just a thin section near the surface is hospitable, and even some of the surface is deadly to us. This is perfect?
What about birth defects? The rate is something like 2-4 per 100 births. That is pathetic for a divine entity, or, "intelligent" design. We strive for 6-sigma or better when we make something. That's a 99.9997% success rate. Perfection? Balanced? I want my damn money back.

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
God. And I take it straight from the horse's mouth: The Bible.

The Bible is the word of God.
Because the Bible says so.
This is not circular logic.

No need for complicated religions or cults. I'm Born Again Christian. Similar to Baptist and pentecostal; They have very minor differences but pretty much same beliefs.

This is why Christianity continues to be the easiest to understand, and is not subject to any debate. This is why there is only one sect of Christianity, because everyone agrees on it perfectly.

The base concept is that we are all sinners and cannot make it to heaven. There is nothing we can do good enough to make it. One sin and we're headed to hell.

So everyone born before Jesus is going to Hell?

God sent his Son Jesus to take our sins and die on the cross. We just need to have faith and believe in him and we are saved by faith. Good works won't get you to heaven, but as a Christian we want to practice them anyway. We obey the 10 commandments (or try... lol) but that's not what brings us to heaven, it's faith. The biggest murderers can even go to heaven if they are turned the right way. I've heard stories of huge burn outs even becoming Christian. The doors are open to everyone.

[/quote]
Alright, so Adam and Eve existed before Jesus. They even existed before the 10 Commandments were out there. Yet they got punished for disobeying God.
Then God punished Adam and Eve and all of their children, and all humanity forever. Original sin. Men toil in the dirt for food, women experience pain during childbirth, and humans are mortal. Yet Jesus died for our sins. So why do we still suffer the effects of original sin, hmm? Sounds like another cheap excuse.
Also interesting, the Bible says that the son shall not suffer for the sins of his father. I guess God is exempt from that, and free to punish the son for the sins of his father's father's father's father's father's father's father's....and so on, all the way back to Adam.

But then he also saved Noah's family from the Great Flood, wherein God committed genocide against his own "perfect" creations, as well as all of the animals, save two of each kind. (Plants too.) Oh, I also hope Noah saved some fish, since flooding the planet would have changed the salinity of the water, killing a LOT of aquatic life. So how "good" was Noah's family? Good enough to escape massive genocide, but not good enough to go without original sin's effects?
I also hope incest was ok, cause, you know, with just one family left, they've got to repopulate the planet somehow, right?

People also say that humans have free will. How then did God know that his son would die on the cross? How did God know that we humans would choose to do that to him? Did God in fact intervene, and voluntarily have his own son killed?
And seriously, what the hell. The only way to cleanse humanity of sin is for God to create a son, have him born the old-fashioned human way, and then have him get tortured and nailed to some pieces of wood, then "die" and then come back. That seems normal and perfectly rational to you????

 

[irishScott]

*awaits "God works in mysterious ways" cop-out argument*

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: irishScott
*awaits "God works in mysterious ways" cop-out argument*

Personally I really enjoy the "free will" pedophilia argument.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

I used to. I no longer do.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
I doubt there is one. On a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 is complete disbelief, 5 is perfect agnosticism, and 10 is complete belief, I would put myself at about a 3. I recognize that there's no way I can know for sure, but I doubt that there is a God and live my life as though there is no God. I try to waste as little time as possible worrying about whether there is or is not a God these days as well.

That's why I wish everyone was agnostic/atheist. God doesn't matter.

To you god doesn't to the majority of the worlds population god does matter.

I'm fine with it as long as they keep it to themselves, ANYTHING that can help anyone better themselves or feel better is good in my book.

The problem arises when they want others to adjust to their beliefs.

It's not logical though. :-/ Believing in something supernatural. It doesn't promote intelligent behavior, I think.

No, you see, your problem is that you don't think. If you want to get involved with their business, go to church, you're no better a man for NOT believing in God, nor does it make you more intelligent.

I've been to churches before, and they make me lose any faith in humanity I had before. Churches are full of morons. The children who get brain washed into believing into this non-sense need to be saved. Most people are too stupid to have the critical thinking skills to see through bullshit when they see it.

There is no logic in believing in God.

*whooosh*

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Sexually speaking, i'm omnipotent.

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: theblackbox
your stories are watered down hindu parables.

Please elaborate if you can.

 

[Oceandevi]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: Amused
Can God microwave a burrito so hot that he himself cannot eat it?

Could God create porn so filthy that even he himself could not fap to it?


These.....these are the questions which keep me awake at night.
:laugh:

If god went potty, could he wipe himself out of existence?

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: CKent
You just said you're a deist? The "He who makes a decision is arrogant" argument is generally reserved for certain agnostic young boys who feel confident in their indecision. Certain godless astronomers who oddly ignore this thread...

Because you baited me in here I'm going to make a quick post but I really need to go to work. Read carefully and let's see if your feeble mind can grasp this concept - I have made a decision. I am an atheist. I am no more agnostic regarding god than I am regarding a magic teapot orbiting the sun. I hold the same level of agnosticism for both. I believe in neither. Do you understand this?

I understand perfectly. Unfortunately for you, you've made absolutely no progress in your effort to say agnisticism and atheism are the same thing.

I am 100% done arguing against your strawman attacks. Find someone else willing to spend a few hours bashing their head against a brick wall, you are just clueless.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: CKent
You just said you're a deist? The "He who makes a decision is arrogant" argument is generally reserved for certain agnostic young boys who feel confident in their indecision. Certain godless astronomers who oddly ignore this thread...

Because you baited me in here I'm going to make a quick post but I really need to go to work. Read carefully and let's see if your feeble mind can grasp this concept - I have made a decision. I am an atheist. I am no more agnostic regarding god than I am regarding a magic teapot orbiting the sun. I hold the same level of agnosticism for both. I believe in neither. Do you understand this?

I understand perfectly. Unfortunately for you, you've made absolutely no progress in your effort to say agnisticism and atheism are the same thing.

I am 100% done arguing against your strawman attacks. Find someone else willing to spend a few hours bashing their head against a brick wall, you are just clueless.

Every post of yours is bashing its head against a brick wall. You still haven't made any progress in your argument.

It's no wonder you're so fucked up, you simultaneously claim near-atheism and claim atheism is arrogant to the point of impossibility, arrogantly I might add (but say nothing of its opposite, religion, because as I said there are more of them and that must scare you). Classic case of hypocrisy induced self-hatred.

Now if I took it a step further I'd stereotype all kiwis based on you, but I'll be the bigger man here (in many ways) and stop short of imitating you to THAT extent :laugh:

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555

Originally posted by: Ryan
Militant Agnostic: I don't Know, and neither do you.

I hate those militant agnostics. You guys seem to always put us in the same barrel as the people who think that god exists! We are better than them trash!

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Ryan
Militant Agnostic: I don't Know, and neither do you.

Amused Agnostic: I don't know and I think it's wonderful that you believe in whatever you want to.

I've seen a lot of very troubled people find peace in faith. And hey, even a placebo can be a very effective treatment. Who am I to argue with success?

I just find it funny and rather sad that non-belivers often become the very thing they hate: Fanatics who judge people who believe differently than they do.

Hah, at least what we do doesn't dictate our life choices.

Yes it does. Everything you do dictates it.

From your morality, to your empathy for others, to your selfish whims and irrational fears.

Their's are just different from yours.

What irrational fears do I have?

MY morality is definitely not based upon my "godless nature." It's based upon what society has built.

Really have no empathy, shame that is...

Selfish whims, hmm.. No, that's society too.

Ah, so you blame your own shortcomings on society?

Morality stems from logical selfishness. If you do not wish to be murdered, you agree not to murder. If you value your property, you agree not to steal. And if you lose something, you would LIKE to have it returned to you, therefore you return lost items you find.

And if you wish to be treated with respect, you treat others with respect.

This is what is wrong with non-believers who believe non-belief sets them free from common morality. They lack the logic to understand why morality has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with creating a civilized society.

You're confusing Morality and Ethics. Morality you speak of is very different in other parts of the world were murder, honor killings, marrying multiple women even children among other things are considered moral and even heroic. Ethics are universal.

 

[IGBT]

..god of the bible? I don't think we're that lucky. but evidence of purposeful design is all around us.

 

[gooseman]

Yes.

 

[Adn4n]

Not a bit.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555

Originally posted by: Ryan
Militant Agnostic: I don't Know, and neither do you.

I hate those militant agnostics. You guys seem to always put us in the same barrel as the people who think that god exists! We are better than them trash!

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Ryan
Militant Agnostic: I don't Know, and neither do you.

Amused Agnostic: I don't know and I think it's wonderful that you believe in whatever you want to.

I've seen a lot of very troubled people find peace in faith. And hey, even a placebo can be a very effective treatment. Who am I to argue with success?

I just find it funny and rather sad that non-belivers often become the very thing they hate: Fanatics who judge people who believe differently than they do.

Hah, at least what we do doesn't dictate our life choices.

Yes it does. Everything you do dictates it.

From your morality, to your empathy for others, to your selfish whims and irrational fears.

Their's are just different from yours.

What irrational fears do I have?

MY morality is definitely not based upon my "godless nature." It's based upon what society has built.

Really have no empathy, shame that is...

Selfish whims, hmm.. No, that's society too.

Ah, so you blame your own shortcomings on society?

Morality stems from logical selfishness. If you do not wish to be murdered, you agree not to murder. If you value your property, you agree not to steal. And if you lose something, you would LIKE to have it returned to you, therefore you return lost items you find.

And if you wish to be treated with respect, you treat others with respect.

This is what is wrong with non-believers who believe non-belief sets them free from common morality. They lack the logic to understand why morality has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with creating a civilized society.

You're confusing Morality and Ethics. Morality you speak of is very different in other parts of the world were murder, honor killings, marrying multiple women even children among other things are considered moral and even heroic. Ethics are universal.

Actually, while the definition of murder may be a bit elastic, the moralities are universal among all religions and societies. They spring from the selfish desire to not be victimized. In societies that are male dominated, of course women have the short end of the stick. But the morals and ethics remain much the same.

That's because humans are much the same.

 

[eternalone]

God cannot be disproved, nor can he be proven, period end of story, anyone that tells you otherwise is a absolutist. The belief in God or the belief in no God are both articles of faith period . Thats why you have to laugh at the atheist and the fundamentalist argue their same unfounded arguments, they are different extremes of the same problem, they are absolutists.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: eternalone
God cannot be disproved, nor can he be proven, period end of story, anyone that tells you otherwise is a absolutist. The belief in God or the belief in no God are both articles of faith period . Thats why you have to laugh at the atheist and the fundamentalist argue their same unfounded arguments, they are different extremes of the same problem, they are absolutists.

Sorry, but just because neither can be absolutely proven (I don't know how one can prove that something doesn't exist anyway) doesn't mean both are equally likely.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: eternalone
God cannot be disproved, nor can he be proven, period end of story, anyone that tells you otherwise is a absolutist. The belief in God or the belief in no God are both articles of faith period . Thats why you have to laugh at the atheist and the fundamentalist argue their same unfounded arguments, they are different extremes of the same problem, they are absolutists.

Sorry, but just because neither can be absolutely proven (I don't know how one can prove that something doesn't exist anyway) doesn't mean both are equally likely.

Neither do they mean either is in any way certain, which was his point.

The only logical response is "I don't know."

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: eternalone
God cannot be disproved, nor can he be proven, period end of story, anyone that tells you otherwise is a absolutist. The belief in God or the belief in no God are both articles of faith period . Thats why you have to laugh at the atheist and the fundamentalist argue their same unfounded arguments, they are different extremes of the same problem, they are absolutists.

Sorry, but just because neither can be absolutely proven (I don't know how one can prove that something doesn't exist anyway) doesn't mean both are equally likely.

Neither do they mean either is in any way certain, which was his point.

The only logical response is "I don't know."

Not quite. Take Russel's teapot, for example.

You can neither prove nor disprove that there is a china teapot revolving around the sun. But you wouldn't say that the only logical response is "I don't know." It is just as logical to say that while you may not know for sure, the proposition that the tea pot it exists is much less likely to be true than it not existing.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: eternalone
God cannot be disproved, nor can he be proven, period end of story, anyone that tells you otherwise is a absolutist. The belief in God or the belief in no God are both articles of faith period . Thats why you have to laugh at the atheist and the fundamentalist argue their same unfounded arguments, they are different extremes of the same problem, they are absolutists.

Sorry, but just because neither can be absolutely proven (I don't know how one can prove that something doesn't exist anyway) doesn't mean both are equally likely.

Neither do they mean either is in any way certain, which was his point.

The only logical response is "I don't know."

Not quite. Take Russel's teapot, for example.

You can neither prove nor disprove that there is a china teapot revolving around the sun. But you wouldn't say that the only logical response is "I don't know." It is just as logical to say that while you may not know for sure, the proposition that the tea pot it exists is much less likely to be true than it not existing.

For the life of me I cannot understand why it is so hard for people to just say "I don't know."

Foolish pride, I suppose...

 

[TridenT]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: eternalone
God cannot be disproved, nor can he be proven, period end of story, anyone that tells you otherwise is a absolutist. The belief in God or the belief in no God are both articles of faith period . Thats why you have to laugh at the atheist and the fundamentalist argue their same unfounded arguments, they are different extremes of the same problem, they are absolutists.

Sorry, but just because neither can be absolutely proven (I don't know how one can prove that something doesn't exist anyway) doesn't mean both are equally likely.

Neither do they mean either is in any way certain, which was his point.

The only logical response is "I don't know."

Not quite. Take Russel's teapot, for example.

You can neither prove nor disprove that there is a china teapot revolving around the sun. But you wouldn't say that the only logical response is "I don't know." It is just as logical to say that while you may not know for sure, the proposition that the tea pot it exists is much less likely to be true than it not existing.

For the life of me I cannot understand why it is so hard for people to just say "I don't know."

Foolish pride, I suppose...

It's like saying, "I could have killed a baby a microsecond ago. Even though I am here, and have been here.. maybe I blacked out for a microsecond and I actually have super sonic speed and just knifed a baby somewhere." Yes, I don't KNOW that it happened, but the probability is 0%.

 

[potato28]

Nope, but I believe in a high being.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: eternalone
God cannot be disproved, nor can he be proven, period end of story, anyone that tells you otherwise is a absolutist. The belief in God or the belief in no God are both articles of faith period . Thats why you have to laugh at the atheist and the fundamentalist argue their same unfounded arguments, they are different extremes of the same problem, they are absolutists.

Sorry, but just because neither can be absolutely proven (I don't know how one can prove that something doesn't exist anyway) doesn't mean both are equally likely.

Neither do they mean either is in any way certain, which was his point.

The only logical response is "I don't know."

Not quite. Take Russel's teapot, for example.

You can neither prove nor disprove that there is a china teapot revolving around the sun. But you wouldn't say that the only logical response is "I don't know." It is just as logical to say that while you may not know for sure, the proposition that the tea pot it exists is much less likely to be true than it not existing.

For the life of me I cannot understand why it is so hard for people to just say "I don't know."

Foolish pride, I suppose...

It's like saying, "I could have killed a baby a microsecond ago. Even though I am here, and have been here.. maybe I blacked out for a microsecond and I actually have super sonic speed and just knifed a baby somewhere." Yes, I don't KNOW that it happened, but the probability is 0%.

Still making fallacious arguments I see.

If there is ANY probability, you cannot know. And since you cannot even know the probability of existence in this question, the only logical answer is "I don't know" and the only logical stance is neutrality.

One day you will realize you are as fanatical and faith based as the religionists and calm down.