Do they not pay professors enough?

[minendo]

http://www.purdueexponent.org/2002/03/05/campus/Professor.html

I always thought that professors made a decent amount of money. Now it seems as though it is just not enough for some.

 

[TheBlondOne]

Well, I guess they didn't pay THAT guy enough!

But for real, I know the profs at my school don't make nearly as much as they deserve. And it's my understanding that unless they're working at an Ivy League college profs could be making more money out in the "real world" rather than in their perspective classrooms.

--Sarah

 

[minendo]

<< Well, I guess they didn't pay THAT guy enough!

But for real, I know the profs at my school don't make nearly as much as they deserve. And it's my understanding that unless they're working at an Ivy League college profs could be making more money out in the "real world" rather than in their perspective classrooms.

--Sarah >>


I just posed the question because I know that one of my Organic Chem professors makes $500 per lecture at three 50 minute lectures per week. That is just what he made lecturing. On top of that he has his annual salary and whatever other money he makes in research.

 

[b0mbrman]

They make a lot, don't get me wrong. But the professors here are the at the top of their field...if they went outside of the teaching market, they could defnitely be paid a lot more.

 

[gopunk]

<< They make a lot, don't get me wrong. But the professors here are the at the top of their field...if they went outside of the teaching market, they could defnitely be paid a lot more. >>



well i think that shows that they value the work they do as a professor enough to take the pay cut.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Most universities now also have a slave labor corps of "visiting assistant professors" that get paid a per-class fee instead of a salary -- some of these people have to work for 2-3 universities at once to make an OK living. This is in addition to having grad students doing more teaching.

it's mostly the old-timers with tenure that are making a very good living.

 

[Entity]

<< I just posed the question because I know that one of my Organic Chem professors makes $500 per lecture at three 50 minute lectures per week. That is just what he made lecturing. On top of that he has his annual salary and whatever other money he makes in research. >>


He may be paid relatively well, then.

University of Washington average Associate Professor Salary is $62,600 per year. Full Professor (much rarer, harder to get) is $85,500.

Purdue is $60,600 for Assoc. Prof, and $87,400 for Full Professor.

Decent income, but considering what is required of many of them, not that great...

Rob

 

[Entity]

Comparative Professor Salaries

 

[minendo]

<< <a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www2.acs.ncsu.edu/UPA/peers/current/research_intensive/salary.htm" target=blank>Comparative Professor Salaries</A> >>


Thanks for the link. That is quite interesting.

 

[gopunk]

the vast majority of teaching work for freshman and sophomore classes done at the UW is done by grad students. it varies by department, of course.

 

[Entity]

<< the vast majority of teaching work for freshman and sophomore classes done at the UW is done by grad students. it varies by department, of course. >>


Yup. I'm in English, where over 50% of the work done for all classes is done by grad students, and CHID, where it is split a little better, but not much. Welcome to the world of grad-student slave labor.

Rob

 

[SpecialEd]

Thanks for the link Entity. I just wanted everyone to know that is takes a long ass time to become a full professor at a distinguished university like the ones listed. Most professors are looking at thoses assistant and assoicate pay rolls. My advisor in undergrad has been teaching for about 15 years and hes still only an associate professor at colgate university.

 

[Sir Fredrick]

My CS teachers make far less than they would if they worked in a related profession. They are experts in their field.

 

[astroview]

Well, I have profs that are lawyers, they could make double in law, and thats a conservative estimate.

So I guess you could say they aren't making their full potential.
Thanks for that link too Entity, it was interesting to see what my university profs make.

 

[darqice]

interesting thread.. i wonder how much the professors at Keystone college make...

OT: entity, you still playing CS? whatever happened to neo's server

 

[Jzero]

<< My CS teachers make far less than they would if they worked in a related profession. They are experts in their field. >>


A PhD does not an expert make. Most of my CS teachers would have fallen flat on their faces if they worked in a related profession. They may be full of gobs of theoretical information, but they wouldn't last a week in the real world. I found that most of them were lazy and arrogant. They always whined that they didn't make enough money, but here they are, still slogging away in the classroom for years.
And I can tell you why:
T-E-N-U-R-E
Once these people get tenured, they might not be making "much" now, although I'd wager that my CS teachers making $75k or probably more who only do research in the summer and delegate most of that work to student slave labor who have to PAY for the privelege of doing the professor's dirty work while the prof takes credit for it.
They work hard for 5-6 years to get tenured and after that, they're guaranteed job security until retirement, no matter how little or much work they do, and a pretty tasty retirement package when they do retire.
A lot of them don't even bother to develop new class materials anymore. My Compilers teacher was still using notes dated 1994, that were still written in PASCAL.
Ironically, the best teacher in the department didn't have a PhD. He gave up hefty salaries as a consultant for gov't contracts becuase he actually LIKED teaching. He quit because the school wouldn't tenure him. He didn't care about the "low" pay, he just wanted to know they wouldn't throw him off at the next budget cut and the school wouldn't help him. Instead they kept around sh!tbricks like the aforementioned Compilers instructor.

The tenure system that was originally supposed to give teachers the freedom to teach any topic, no matter how controversial has degenerated into a sytem for perpetuating stagnance and mediocrity at the expense of students who care. The aforementioned compilers teacher destroyed my enjoyment of computer science. He did NOTHING outside of showing up for class (which he didn't even do THAT all the time) and there's no way he can be fired unless he does something illegal.
And he would stand in front of the class and b!tch that he doesn't get paid enough.

<^>

 

[Ranger X]

It depends on whether or not you're tenured, visiting professor, etc. Private schools pay their professors well and if you publish enough books, they'll start to increase your salary. I had a professor discuss salary issues with his class one day and I found it interesting.

 

[Bignate603]

Some do, some don't. It takes a long time to get a degree high enough to become a professor, time that could be spent working. While they lose those early years of wage earning they often keep on working until they are ancient. I guess it balances.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Jzero- I have no idea where you go to college, but my wife is a college professor at a small college in the Boston area. Her work day starts at 8:00 AM at the latest. She then works till 5:00 or so. Then she comes home and takes care of the kids and gets them to bed, because when I am working, I often do not get home until 9:00 or so. She then goes to work grading, preparing lectures, etc. Usually she stops about 11:00 and does it again the next day. Know what she does on the weekend? School work. Oh, she is an associate professor with tenure and about 12 years teaching experience. She has, among other degrees, a PhD in molecular genetics. She is brilliant and I have no idea why she teaches whiny brats complaining that they have to work so hard and how not fair it is they have to do so and you have to give me an A so I can go to medical school...
Well I know why she does it. Every so often, one of these whiny brats grows up and becomes something. They mature and grow and she is a part of it. It is that satisfaction that motivates her to teach, making 45,000 at this place when she could be making twice that at a big name institution, or 4 or more times her salary in industry. She has an outstanding mind and exceptional organizational skills that would serve her well in those settings.

As far as tenure goes, there have been many times when the administration wanted to implement changes that would have harmed the students in the long run. She, and others, fought them and won. Why? Because she could not be dismissed without cause, and could effectively change or mitigate these policies.

Anyway, I have long association with academia myself and am familiar with dead wood faculty, and abuses of the system. I also know you were referring to your situation, and not in general, so this rant is not directed at you. I just want to make clear that your situation is not universal.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Oh and by the way I now am GOLDEN

Bwahahaha!!!!!!!!!

(or ought to be )

 

[Jfur]

In *most* disciplines, average starting salary is aroung 45k per year. Note that to get this you have on average completed 7-10 years of graduate school. Of course, some professors make substantially more -- but most of them could make a LOT more if they weren't teaching.

Check this chart of faculty salaries: http://chronicle.com/free/v47/i32/2001aaupresults.php3?State_Type=All%20states&Category_Type=All%20categories&Sort=4&Order=1&limit=-1

 

[Jzero]

<< Jzero- I have no idea where you go to college, but my wife is a college professor at a small college in the Boston area. Her work day starts at 8:00 AM at the latest. She then works till 5:00 or so..... >>


*snip rest of rant*
Of course! As with anything else, there's an entire spectrum ranging from terrible to excellent in terms of the teachers who are willing to go the extra mile.
Also, it appears that your wife is in biological science?
My GF is a bio major (wants to specialize in genetics/molecular biology, as a matter of fact) and she rarely has anything negative to say about her teachers. Even the ones she doesn't like, she still learns from and considers good teachers. It must be a science thing

I can tell you the schedules of two of my teachers, straight from their mouths:
Get up at 7:30, wake the kids, get them ready for school. We already pulled the necessary strings to ensure that we never have class before 9:30 or after 3:30 so that we can get the kids both on and off the bus.
9:30-11:00--Teach class. To their credit, I will say that these 2 teachers either don't bother writing a lecture and make something up, or they actually have a new lecture prepared. They never tried to pass off a 3-year-old lecture. They at least TRY to make something new.
11:00-12:30--Office hours.
12:30-2:00--Another class
2:00-3:00 maybe office hours.
3:00 go home and get the kids.
Come into class the next day (or not) and complain that they didn't have time to grade the lab/test/paper that you handed in 3 weeks ago AGAIN because they were doing something else. And I'm fine with that. Lord knows I rarely work at home, so why should they?
But they say they are working 6-hour days (not including "research" time) and no night or summer classes, great benefits package (well-funded public school) and then they stand up in front of the class and whine that $75k is terrible pay?!

I get $45k for what I do, and I think that's pretty good. Hope I never become that arrogant b/c one day I might want to be a CS prof.



<< As far as tenure goes, there have been many times when the administration wanted to implement changes that would have harmed the students in the long run. She, and others, fought them and won. Why? Because she could not be dismissed without cause, and could effectively change or mitigate these policies. >>


I agree that there is still a necessity for some form of tenure, but here in NJ, once you get it, you're made for life. There needs to be some way to re-evaluate tenure on an ongoing basis and strip it away from those who abuse it. It has become an invitation to complacency and laziness where it was originally implemented to do the complete opposite. You could teach an innovative new idea and not fear losing your job. Now for many teachers, they can teach nothing and not fear losing their job.
The Compilers teacher I keep referring back to, for instance, his end-of-semester evaluations are completely meaningless. No matter what I write on those evaluations, he will still keep his job and there is no reason for him to bother responding to the evaluations and aiming for a higher score.
And he doesn't. He admitted this to the class once, as well.

Oh well. I can rant here all I want--won't change the situation. I can put up bad teacher stories all night and you can put up good teacher stories all night. Our points will continue to hold true--there are bad teachers who are overpaid and good teachers who are underpaid.



<< Oh and by the way I now am GOLDEN >>


Gratz! At least you didn't waste it on a nef post

 

[DoctorFeelGood]

menudo,

professors are generally have higher levels of intelligence than the average population. I feel that they should get a raise.

Psychoanalyze this, DoctorFeelGood, AKA Catfish Hunter, AKA DessertCart.

I guess your IQ isn't as high as you thought.

AnandTech Moderator

 

[Jfur]

weird double post that appeared 20 minutes later????

 

[Sir Fredrick]

<<

<< My CS teachers make far less than they would if they worked in a related profession. They are experts in their field. >>


A PhD does not an expert make. Most of my CS teachers would have fallen flat on their faces if they worked in a related profession. They may be full of gobs of theoretical information, but they wouldn't last a week in the real world. I found that most of them were lazy and arrogant. They always whined that they didn't make enough money, but here they are, still slogging away in the classroom for years.
And I can tell you why:
T-E-N-U-R-E
>>



<snip>

Ahem. When I said that my profs were experts in their field, I meant it.
Two of them worked for NASA...one I don't know well enough to know what she did for NASA, the other developed computer systems, built and launched spy satellites in the cold war era, and did some tech related stuff for the Navy. He's retired now, and teaches as a hobby.

Finally, there's professor Fishman. AI/Linguist GURU, knows more human languages than I even knew existed. The one most heavily focused on theory, he developed an AI system to help the navy tell the difference between a duck and an enemy boat (this was a big problem, believe it or not)...he also developed an AI program for an investment firm which made predictions on the stock market based on certain indicators...accurately too.

These people all have experience, were highly desireable in their field, and were making more in the privat industry than they are making as teachers. They also happen to love teaching, though.

And the crap about tenure isn't completely true, Professor Fishman won a teaching award while he was at the school he taught at previoius to mine, and was asked to leave shortly after that because the school felt he was focusing too much on teaching and not enough on research. Yes, he had tenure. No, they couldn't fire him, but yes, they could push him out by cutting all funding and his salary, forcing him to teach lousy classes, etc..