It's all in the title. Do BSODs, having a PC that won't boot or having to manually clear the CMOS (all due to overclocking) damage the computer? Or is it better to stress test (Prime95, Super Pi) each time to avoid (hopefully) getting any of these?
Do these damage the computer?
- Thread starter Drakelet
- Start date
Very unlikely that any physical damage is caused unless you are extreme overvolting. Very easy to corrupt an OS install if you boot into it on an OCd system, though.
A BSOD doesn't damage the computer, its an indication of a problem (unstable oc, corrupted drivers).
By definition (?) if the comptuer doesn't boot, it is broken.
The CMOS does have a limited number of times it can be rewritten (I don't know if that applies to BIOS changes/clears or only BIOS updates) but that number is still in the 1000s so not much of an issue (in my opinion).
By definition (?) if the comptuer doesn't boot, it is broken.
The CMOS does have a limited number of times it can be rewritten (I don't know if that applies to BIOS changes/clears or only BIOS updates) but that number is still in the 1000s so not much of an issue (in my opinion).
OK, thanks all, that's great to hear.
One thing though - What is the main cause of HDD corruption? I had it, and it was a complete b*tch.
One thing though - What is the main cause of HDD corruption? I had it, and it was a complete b*tch.
- Sep 28, 2005
- 21,087
- 3,598
- 126
Bad ram giving bad data back.
Bad OC causing right data to be sent, but bad data to be processed.
Bad PSU, not enough power to your components therefore the system hangs.
Overheating CPU therefore it massively throttles and therefore leads to errors down the road.
Turning the computer off the hard way instead of shutting down.
Last but not least, a bad hard drive having bad sectors.
Theres too many things that can lead to BSODs. Its not the best way to determine if your system is borked or not. Usually a BSOD leads to you reformating to see if you can reproduce the BSOD on a clean install. And if you can, its either hardware or your a complete noob at installing windows.
Haha! Well, I reinstalled Windows and everything worked (and still works) fine.
Put simply, what I did was pushed my Sempron 3000 (1.8GHz) up to 2GHz (FSB changing, can't remember if I changed voltage or not). It ran, but it wasn't stable, so I put it down to 1.9GHz and blam, PC wouldn't start, at all. I think it probably overheated or something.
Put simply, what I did was pushed my Sempron 3000 (1.8GHz) up to 2GHz (FSB changing, can't remember if I changed voltage or not). It ran, but it wasn't stable, so I put it down to 1.9GHz and blam, PC wouldn't start, at all. I think it probably overheated or something.
VirtualLarry
No Lifer
- Aug 25, 2001
- 56,587
- 10,225
- 126
No, the CMOS backup RAM doesn't have any limitations on the number of times that your config can be updated. You are confusion it with the Flash BIOS, which can only be re-written 1000 or 10000 times.
myocardia
Diamond Member
- Jun 21, 2003
- 9,291
- 30
- 91
The CMOS and the BIOS are exactly the same thing. And yes, it has a finite number of times it can be written to, but can be read from an infinite number of times. Of course, that's not of much concern, since resetting the BIOS only equates to a single write, as does changing any one setting in the BIOS.
Standard usage is that CMOS and BIOS refer to the same thing, but in reality they are two very different things - and I know you know this myocardia, but it's worth mentioning it to the greater readership.
The BIOS is a small program that is used to bring-up a CPU. When a CPU powers up, the first thing that it does is do an instruction fetch from a fixed address - that's where the BIOS is. So it goes to this spot and essentially as "what should I do?" and then one by one, it works it's way through this basic program. It runs this program to gradually bring up all the components of the system one by one, checking that they are there, that they are running correctly and setting up IO adresses, etc.
CMOS is a type of integrated circuit technology - it's stands for Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductor and is generally used to refer to the technology used to make most modern CPU integrated circuits and specifically refers to the type of transistors used to make the IC's (although up until recently it was a bit of a misnomer since the salicide used to make up the gate portion of the transistor can't really be considered a metal... but this is getting really pedantic).
Originally the BIOS was written to CMOS static RAM kept with a battery backup - but nowadays most motherboards nowadays write it to a Flash or EEPROM memory, and then shadow it into main memory for speed. When people use the term "clearing the CMOS", they used to be saying "kill the power to a portion of the CMOS RAM so that the contents get cleared", but nowadays it triggers a Flash memory reset of a portion of the Flash memory. But old terminology sticks around.
an HD doesn't really even need bad sectors to be a bad HD, could be the way the device attempts to write, which entirely renders the drive ready-to-die anyway.
BSOD, yeah, the mobo can be severely dmg'd in the process.
I say you get things the way you want them to, and when you think you're ready, Memtest and Prime95, and do an HD test. Insures more stable operation. And then everything pretty much is up to the OS to crunch your environment the way you want it to.
BSOD, yeah, the mobo can be severely dmg'd in the process.
I say you get things the way you want them to, and when you think you're ready, Memtest and Prime95, and do an HD test. Insures more stable operation. And then everything pretty much is up to the OS to crunch your environment the way you want it to.
Thanks all, some excellent info here.
So, do BSODs damage the motherboard or not? suhtahz says no, fire400 says yes.
So, do BSODs damage the motherboard or not? suhtahz says no, fire400 says yes.
OK, thanks myo.
Apart from overvolting, what overclocking things can cause physical hardware damage or HDD damage?
Apart from overvolting, what overclocking things can cause physical hardware damage or HDD damage?
myocardia
Diamond Member
- Jun 21, 2003
- 9,291
- 30
- 91
Nothing can cause HDD damage (physical damage, that is), and only overvolting or overheating can damage any component in a computer.
edit: That's assuming that you won't be storing large magnets on top of the case, or working on it while standing on carpet, in your socks, while rubbing your feet on the carpet, of course.
edit: That's assuming that you won't be storing large magnets on top of the case, or working on it while standing on carpet, in your socks, while rubbing your feet on the carpet, of course.
Very good post from pm. I knew most of it but that brought it together.
HDD damage - if the PCI bus is run (it does not happen these days since these are now defaulted to 33) but with the old Via133/266/333, Athlon XP, Intel P3 boards and early P4 boards boards running the PCI bus beyond say beyond 50 can kill the HD if at this speed for prolonged use- can it not?
Did I miss something along the way?
myocardia
Diamond Member
- Jun 21, 2003
- 9,291
- 30
- 91
Yes, you missed that this discussion pertains to current hardware, not 486's. BTW, you'd never be able to use any HD (e.g., boot to an OS), with the PCI bus beyond 50 Mhz, so there'd be no "prolonged" anything, unless someone were dumb enough to just boot the PC, and let it sit in the BIOS, until the HD failed.
Thanks again all. I was just asking because I corrupted my HDD and I wasn't 100% sure how (IIRC I only changed the FSB, possibly the voltages slightly).
Hard disks can just get corrupted over time all by themsevles - bits essentially wear out. Even when you have a perfectly operating computer, you will infrequently get sector errors in portions of the hard disk if you run it long enough. If you do a low-level scan, the OS can mark these sectors as bad and then avoid them afterwards.
When you have a fair bit of time for your computer to be down, have your hard disk checked for bad sectors to get those portions marked as bad. In My Computer, right-click on the drive you want to check, click on the Tools tab, click "Check now" under Error-Checking and check both boxes - automatically fix errors and scan and attempt recovery of bad sectors. It will require a reboot and then it will take quite a while to check the drive - I never sit around to watch, but it seems like it takes over an hour to run on my computer. For what it's worth, under Linux, the comparable command is "fsck" (filesystem check).
When you have a fair bit of time for your computer to be down, have your hard disk checked for bad sectors to get those portions marked as bad. In My Computer, right-click on the drive you want to check, click on the Tools tab, click "Check now" under Error-Checking and check both boxes - automatically fix errors and scan and attempt recovery of bad sectors. It will require a reboot and then it will take quite a while to check the drive - I never sit around to watch, but it seems like it takes over an hour to run on my computer. For what it's worth, under Linux, the comparable command is "fsck" (filesystem check).
BonzaiDuck
Lifer
- Jun 30, 2004
- 16,782
- 2,114
- 126
Regalk said basically what I thought to warn of.
Earlier and current mobos will over-clock the PCI and PCI-E buses in proportion to the FSB over-clocking if not set to a fixed value.
That feature can either damage your onboard HD controller, or corrupt your disks.
On the older AGP mobos, there was a feature called "AGP/PCI ratio" or something similar such that fixed settings were 66/33, 72/36, etc. OC Guides always reminded us to replace "Auto" with one of these settings.
Rojak's BIOS Guide notes that 10% over-clock to these bus speeds is safe, but I'm not sure you gain anything by it.
If over-clocking, even while trying new settings, you know that you're in good shape if PRIME95 failures don't lead to system freezes or BSODs. Impatience and over-ambition with over-clock settings may require you to reset CMOS, hit the "reset" button, and a lot of things, which, personally, make me very uncomfortable.
They make me uncomfortable because one worries about successfully restarting and resetting the system without a lot of trouble.
I suppose the worst thing that can happen is a bad BIOS flash, but if it happens, it still does not mean there has been damage to the motherboard.
Earlier and current mobos will over-clock the PCI and PCI-E buses in proportion to the FSB over-clocking if not set to a fixed value.
That feature can either damage your onboard HD controller, or corrupt your disks.
On the older AGP mobos, there was a feature called "AGP/PCI ratio" or something similar such that fixed settings were 66/33, 72/36, etc. OC Guides always reminded us to replace "Auto" with one of these settings.
Rojak's BIOS Guide notes that 10% over-clock to these bus speeds is safe, but I'm not sure you gain anything by it.
If over-clocking, even while trying new settings, you know that you're in good shape if PRIME95 failures don't lead to system freezes or BSODs. Impatience and over-ambition with over-clock settings may require you to reset CMOS, hit the "reset" button, and a lot of things, which, personally, make me very uncomfortable.
They make me uncomfortable because one worries about successfully restarting and resetting the system without a lot of trouble.
I suppose the worst thing that can happen is a bad BIOS flash, but if it happens, it still does not mean there has been damage to the motherboard.
VirtualLarry
No Lifer
- Aug 25, 2001
- 56,587
- 10,225
- 126
No, the BIOS was never written to CMOS static RAM, it was always in an EPROM/Flash EEPROM. It was (and is) the BIOS settings that are written to the CMOS SRAM. Clearing the CMOS RAM still does the same thing that it always did for the PC - it kills the power to the SRAM, wiping out the contents. It does NOT trigger some sort of flash memory write.
(Where's Peter when you need him.)
This is true, because mobos still have batteries, which back-up the power to the SRAM. If it were all done in flash memory, we wouldn't need a battery to keep the settings.
Beyond the basic CMOS settings, the BIOS also stores something called the ESCD, the Extended system configuration data, essentially the PnP data. This IS stored in a block of flash memory. When you see the BIOS saying "updating ESCD", it is updating this portion of the flash memory chip. Also DMI Data is stored in flash.
These are cleared when you flash a BIOS with the /cp and /cd (clear pnp and clear dmi) switches. The /cc (clear cmos) switch erases the SRAM contents.
Who is Peter?
True, although another big reason for battery power is to keep power to the real-time clock.
Thank you for the correction.
You are right. In recent years, it's stored in Flash, previously it was stored in ROM. I stand corrected - only the settings are/were stored in RAM. That said, on the server-based systems that I work on, we don't store anything in any CMOS RAM.
True, although another big reason for battery power is to keep power to the real-time clock.
Thank you for the correction.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter