Do my parents have a problem w/their cars ABS?

evident

Lifer
Apr 5, 2005
12,082
689
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My parents are driving me nuts. They are freaking out about their vehicle (2005 Accord V6 5AT, 68k miles) and its performance during this past year's winter. my mom is complaining that the car is unable to stop in snowing conditions, that the rear wheels are sliding the car around anytime she brakes in ice/snow conditions, and that the car keeps skidding forward. the TCS/ABS light flashes (as the manual states it should) and that they think the ABS functionality is broke.

They spent a ton at the dealer to replace all brake pads, rotors, and brake fluid, got their timing belt replaced (at only 68k miles, ugh) but they still have problems in the snow. the tread on their tires are still have decent tread. i purchased them myself about 4 years ago (good year assurance triple tread all season touring). at this point, i'm at a loss. they are ready to sell their completely paid off vehicle, and won't let me or my sister buy the car off them (my dad says he doesn't want us to die before he does- i think he's being overly dramatic and irrational, but I dont know, i've never driven the car in these conditions!!)

I took the car for a test drive yesterday in raining conditions, did some hard stops, and i feel the brake's abs system pulsating when i do that. I wasn't able to recreate the conditions where the abs/tcs light blips though, and i dont' think there will be any more snowy conditions up here in philly. I have a pretty much identical car, an 07 Accord 4 cyl and their car's brakes are a little grabbier than mine, but that's probably because they just replaced everything.

If I take this car to the dealer, is there something the dealer can look at regarding the brake system that i'm missing?

My mom is still against selling the car. they already dumped around $1500 this year into the cars braking system and major maintenance item (timing belt) and i would have to agree with her. If they still have the car by next winter i'm going to purchase a set of steelies and give them a dedicated set of snow tires, other than that i have no idea what else could be wrong with the car.

cliffs:
parents have no confidence in car's ability to brake in winter conditions
spent $1500 on brand new brakes, rotors, brake fluid and timing belt - so it will hurt even more if they sell the car now.
tires are still decent with about 60-70% tread, 4 years old Good year all seasons
Is there anything else that could be preventing the car from braking well in slippery conditions? ABS malfunction? TCS (vehicle stability assist) problem?
if parents keep car, i will buy them dedicated snow tires and see if it helps. I really don't think anything is wrong with this car!


Update:


Thanks for all your input, looks like it points to a crappy all season tire issue coupled with the fact that this was the worst winter in a while where they actually had to deal with driving in the snow. this is my parents first car with ABS / VSC, so they aren't used to the lights flashing or the ABS feeling when it kicks in. Definitely their first real winter with this vehicle. i suspect they are inherently distrustful of it because a: something is flashing on the dashboard and omgz!!!!11, 2: the feeling of brakes pulsating to them makes it seem like something is malfunctioning.

i told them this afternoon that i'll get them some rims and some new winter tires next fall. if they still bitch and moan i'll help them sell the damn thing, keep the winter tires for myself and get them some awd car or hell, another 1996 toyota camry that doesnt have ABS or VSC, lol.

one more thought, a stuck brake caliper cause the car to swerve when the brakes are applied right? that's one thing I guess i'll have a mechanic look at when their state inspection time comes up.
 
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NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,104
597
126
First comment is if ice is involved I wouldn't doubt they would have trouble stopping. All-seasons are great at nothing; only acceptable in most conditions. I would wager the especially wild weather is simply causing the car to behave differently than previous years.

And as for the timing belt...it's about 9 years so mileage is irrelevant. I have no issue with replacing it. Which reminds me I should change the one in the Subaru sometime soon.
 

vshah

Lifer
Sep 20, 2003
19,003
24
81
the problem is that the car has all season tires, and mediocre ones at that.

also probably that your parents are driving too fast for conditions

/thread
 

cbrsurfr

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2000
1,686
1
81
Unless the ABS light is on and it's storing a code it's unlikely there's anything wrong with the system. Have them buy snow tires for the winter, it will make a huge difference. This winter has been unusually bad so they probably just weren't used to soo much snow.

If the rear is sliding around it could be that there is less tread on the rear tires. On FWD the tires with the most tread should be on the rear. The front has all the weight of the drivetrain so the rear is where more tread is beneficial.

Also if they are just hammering the brake ABS will make the car take longer to stop.
 

evident

Lifer
Apr 5, 2005
12,082
689
126
Also if they are just hammering the brake ABS will make the car take longer to stop.


given my memories of my parents driving when i'm growing up, this is likely the case. I really don't think anything is wrong with this car.
 

monkeydelmagico

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2011
3,961
145
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Interesting. I traded in a 2004 accord v6 because it had some weird braking issues. Almost backed it off the end of my driveway down a big ditch. The abs did something funky and tried to kill me.

Folks will go on and on about how it's impossible or driver error blah blah but until they experience the ghost in the machine they don't get it.

If they've lost confidence in the brakes it's time for a new ride.
 

evident

Lifer
Apr 5, 2005
12,082
689
126
Interesting. I traded in a 2004 accord v6 because it had some weird braking issues. Almost backed it off the end of my driveway down a big ditch. The abs did something funky and tried to kill me.

Folks will go on and on about how it's impossible or driver error blah blah but until they experience the ghost in the machine they don't get it.

If they've lost confidence in the brakes it's time for a new ride.


what exactly did it do, you were in reverse?
 

MiataNC

Platinum Member
Dec 5, 2007
2,215
1
81
Their problem is the tires.

ABS/ESC/TCS/etc. are electronic aids that operate faster than typical human reaction times, and apply control corrections smarter than a typical human. They are not magical systems that guarantee traction under all conditions.
 

monkeydelmagico

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2011
3,961
145
106
what exactly did it do, you were in reverse?

Yep, backing up for K turn, hit pedal, no stop. No ABS stutter or lights just a normal pedal with no caliper actuation. Ebrake worked fine (thankfully). Plenty of test drives and dealer mechanic ball scratching with no resolution.
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
190
106
Sounds likes its working fine but has low tread (for snow) on some tires that are not known for good snow service.

The tread needs to be deep to work well in snow. Continental puts letters in the tread of some of their tires and the S is the lowest one. Once you get down to 6-7 32's the S is gone. The tires will still work fine in dry and rain but not very well in snow. Then the tires on their car are not know to work that great in snow to begin with. Tirerack listed that and noise as its 2 weak areas.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=161


My thing is keep the car but be ready to get a set of steel wheels and snow tires for the times of year they are needed or replace the current tires right before next winter with a better all season tire.
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
Yep, backing up for K turn, hit pedal, no stop. No ABS stutter or lights just a normal pedal with no caliper actuation. Ebrake worked fine (thankfully). Plenty of test drives and dealer mechanic ball scratching with no resolution.

I'm sorry your story just sounds so made up and fake for a number of reasons,

1) even without power your brakes work
2) all modern car brake systems have 2 separate circuits
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
I hydroplaned on my Goodyear Eagles and never had any trust in them. Never again. It's not the car.
 

evident

Lifer
Apr 5, 2005
12,082
689
126
thanks... all of the responses is pretty much what i suspected is that its the tires. i'll buy them or make them go buy an extra set of rims and snow tires next year. if they still arent satisfied then i give up, they can dump their perfectly fine car and buy another one and get stuck with a monthly payment.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,146
5,096
136
thanks... all of the responses is pretty much what i suspected is that its the tires. i'll buy them or make them go buy an extra set of rims and snow tires next year. if they still arent satisfied then i give up, they can dump their perfectly fine car and buy another one and get stuck with a monthly payment.

If your parents do not want to get an extra set wheels+snow tires, give Continental ExtremeContact DWS tires a try.
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
190
106
If your parents do not want to get an extra set wheels+snow tires, give Continental ExtremeContact DWS tires a try.


Those work well in snow and have the DWS burned into the tread so when the S is gone its no good in snow and then W for wet and lastly D for dry.
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,442
212
106
Also as tires age they lose some of their pliability in cold weather making them worse over time
 
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phucheneh

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2012
7,306
5
0
I would wager there is nothing wrong with the system and they are simply experiencing 'normal' ABS activation. Give them some driving lessons.

I do occasionally see cars with 'false alarm' ABS activations, but it's fairly rare and I've never seen in on a Honda. I think once on a Toyota where a wheel speed sensor was sometimes reading like 1-3mph off while doing straight...technically that was STC activation. Otherwise, always domestic cars. Which is to say, Chryslers, Chryslers, and also, sometimes Chryslers.

edit: and they usually WILL set a code. There can be stored codes even without the light on. The problem is that at speed, the car is constantly trying to re-enable ABS functionality. Once it thinks that the sensor fault is gone, the light will go off and the system will 'work' again...even if one of the wheel speeds is not accurate.
 
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LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
I seem to remember stories of Hondas wearing out their rear pads from a rearward brake bias.

Combine that with poor tires, and you can get the back end trying to go first.
 

WoodButcher

Platinum Member
Mar 10, 2001
2,158
0
76
ABS sucks. I'd bet your parents are like me and prefer to drive the car rather than trusting a computer to drive me.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
ABS sucks. I'd bet your parents are like me and understand not how ABS works and believe I can react quicker and with more accuracy than a computer controlled system, while texting and driving.
FTFY


OP, I would say the most likely culprit is that your parents have very little experience with the ABS actually engaging and the tires are garbage.
 

Mark R

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
8,513
16
81
If the slip indicator light is flashing, it is more than just the ABS activating.

If the car is sliding around, then it could well be the ESP/stabilty control kicking in because the car is yawing because the tires are sliding under braking load.

The problem in this case is the driving conditions and/or tires.
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
I have to admit that my wife's Civic's ABS is a little annoying sometimes. Since I spent almost my whole life driving vehicles without ABS, having something that nerfs your braking for a few seconds any time you go over a washboard road or manhole cover is not my idea of a "safety device".

It's good for her though, I'll admit that much. Careful pedal modulation is not her strong suit.

I might install an off button in-line with the fuse for my personal use...
 

evident

Lifer
Apr 5, 2005
12,082
689
126
FTFY


OP, I would say the most likely culprit is that your parents have very little experience with the ABS actually engaging and the tires are garbage.

you're also right. This is my parents first car with ABS / VSC, so they aren't used to the lights flashing or the ABS feeling when it kicks in. i suspect they are inherently distrustful of it because a: something is flashing on the dashboard and omgz!!!!11, 2: the feeling of brakes pulsating to them makes it seem like something is malfunctioning.

i told them this afternoon that i'll get them some rims and some new winter tires next fall. if they still bitch and moan i'll help them sell the damn thing, keep the winter tires for myself and get them some awd car or hell, another 1996 toyota camry that doesnt have ABS or VSC, lol.
 

silicon

Senior member
Nov 27, 2004
886
1
81
the problem is that the car has all season tires, and mediocre ones at that.

also probably that your parents are driving too fast for conditions

/thread

I'll second that. bad tires, should have snow tires on, and driving too fast for the conditions.