Do most Republicans really think Bush deserves more credit for killing Bin Laden?

[spacejamz]

Bush failed, and Obama succeeded.

How exactly is that 50-50 ?

Clinton failed as well, so it would be 33.3/33.3/33.3...

 

[wuliheron]

I'd say republicans tend to be fundamentalist Christian and more xenophobic in general. Just the idea of giving credit to someone who is not one of them is repugnant. It is both a great strength of republicans and a great weakness. On the one hand such xenophobia produces a stronger sense of unity among republicans then democrats and its been said many times that they at least know what they don't want. On the other hand it makes it hard for them to even consider alternatives and compromises.

 

[Scotteq]

So if this mission had failed, or the go ahead was never given, or the intel had never become actionable, both Bush and Obama would have been equally responsible for that? No? That's why the arguments that Bush deserves even as much, let alone more, credit than Obama in this just flat don't fly. Obama owns this every bit as much as he would have owned a failure to take down OBL.

Translation: If we create a fictitious situation where you are correct, then you are correct.



GWB put programs into place, and assigned tasks - On The Advice Of Others - based on what the people involved at the time felt were the best course.


President Obama inherited those programs, and modified them - Again - On The Advice Of Others (and many of those "Others" being the exact same career Bureaucrats and Intelligence specialists who advised GWB) - The agencys involved continued the work that was laid down before them and the people assigned to that task ultimately closed the deal for him.

Both Presidents contribited what they felt was best at the time they made that contribution. And then moved on to the next task.


Neither President directly did anything. Full Stop.

Why? Presidents simply do not operate at that level of detail. The first guy gave the order 'We should do this... Here's a plan the experts put together...' But that didn't come to fruition before his terms were up. President Obama got a report that the plan had eventually worked, and he therefore gave the order to take UBL out.

Neither deserve full credit.


But if it's more in line with your preconceived political views about the "Rightness" of one political party over the other, then please feel free to masturbate over how awesome your guy is.

Personally, I think neither president is all that wonderful.

 

[Atreus21]

I'd say republicans tend to be fundamentalist Christian and more xenophobic in general. Just the idea of giving credit to someone who is not one of them is repugnant. It is both a great strength of republicans and a great weakness. On the one hand such xenophobia produces a stronger sense of unity among republicans then democrats and its been said many times that they at least know what they don't want. On the other hand it makes it hard for them to even consider alternatives and compromises.

yes that's it. All aversion to the darkie is clearly rooted in xenophobia.

Jesus Christ.

 

[Red Dawn]

Wow...if that account is factual

Lol..If the moon was made out of green cheese. The President doesn't get over ruled.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Translation: If we create a fictitious situation where you are correct, then you are correct.



GWB put programs into place, and assigned tasks - On The Advice Of Others - based on what the people involved at the time felt were the best course.


President Obama inherited those programs, and modified them - Again - On The Advice Of Others (and many of those "Others" being the exact same career Bureaucrats and Intelligence specialists who advised GWB) - The agencys involved continued the work that was laid down before them and the people assigned to that task ultimately closed the deal for him.

Both Presidents contribited what they felt was best at the time they made that contribution. And then moved on to the next task.


Neither President directly did anything. Full Stop.

Why? Presidents simply do not operate at that level of detail. The first guy gave the order 'We should do this... Here's a plan the experts put together...' But that didn't come to fruition before his terms were up. President Obama got a report that the plan had eventually worked, and he therefore gave the order to take UBL out.

Neither deserve full credit.


But if it's more in line with your preconceived political views about the "Rightness" of one political party over the other, then please feel free to masturbate over how awesome your guy is.

Personally, I think neither president is all that wonderful.

Translation: Yeah, if it was a failure, it'd all be on Obama, but since it was a success Bush and everyone else gets the credit.

 

[Scotteq]

Translation: Yeah, if it was a failure, it'd all be on Obama, but since it was a success Bush and everyone else gets the credit.

Please show me where I ever said that President Obama deserved no credit.


Hint: You can't, because I never said such a thing.

 

[boomerang]

Wow...if that account is factual, Obama is politically screwed...and I have a deepening respect for Hillary.

Well, I'd want to see it reported elsewhere before making any determinations. But if true, I don't think it would make a bit of difference in how the public perceives Obama. His followers will still follow. He's not a man to them, he's akin to a God.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Please show me where I ever said that President Obama deserved no credit.


Hint: You can't, because I never said such a thing.

I didn't say you said he deserves no credit. I'm saying what you and so many of your cohorts are saying, that Bush deserves as much or more, is flat out BS. You throw that token "some credit" Obama's way because of some sort of emotional inability to admit to yourselves that as the Commander in chief Obama deserves not just some, but THE credit.

 

[Jhhnn]

i think in your blind desire to see the dems win you are missing the point.

NEITHER have a damn thing to really do wit hit besides OK it. its not like Obama or Bush were out looking for him. They just Ok'd the teams to do what they were going to do with the intel they had.

All this must be terribly confusing for Republican True Believers. As usual, denial is their answer to any development that doesn't fit their pattern of conditioned response.

As promised, Obama devoted greater resources to the Afghan/beloved patriot theatre of operations, and it paid off. He also made a very gutsy and correct call wrt the Seal team assault on the compound in Pakistan. Had it gone wrong, Righties sure as hell wouldn't be blaming GWB, but they're entirely willing to steal Obama's thunder if they can.

 

[her209]

Clinton failed as well, so it would be 33.3/33.3/33.3...

Reagan trained Osama so he deserves 50% credit for 9/11.

 

[Scotteq]

I didn't say you said he deserves no credit. I'm saying what you and so many of your cohorts are saying, that Bush deserves as much or more, is flat out BS. You throw that token "some credit" Obama's way because of some sort of emotional inability to admit to yourselves that as the Commander in chief Obama deserves not just some, but THE credit.

I didn't say that either.


I said:

Both Presidents contribited what they felt was best at the time they made that contribution. And then moved on to the next task.


Neither President directly did anything. Full Stop.
Why? Presidents simply do not operate at that level of detail. The first guy gave the order 'We should do this... Here's a plan the experts put together...' But that didn't come to fruition before his terms were up. President Obama got a report that the plan had eventually worked, and he therefore gave the order to take UBL out.

Neither deserve full credit.

But if it's more in line with your preconceived political views about the "Rightness" of one political party over the other, then please feel free to masturbate over how awesome your guy is.

Personally, I think neither president is all that wonderful.

But I'm sorry you are so butthurt at someone who doesn't believe your partisan line of bullshit that "Your" guy is any better than the other. I am sorry that your emotional attachment to the current president precludes you from admitting that anyone else might have had a contribution, and also that

NEITHER

president acted directly.


And I am further sorry that you can't even be bothered to read the posts you are responding to. Because if you did, you would understand that I have not said the things you are accusing me of.

 

[dfuze]

Fuck no. Niether BUSH or OBAMA deserve credit for it. though if you want to give them any it would be 50-50 why? bush started the mess going after Osama and Obama finished it by giving the OK to the team to kill his ass.

but to be honest giving either any credit for it is fucking silly.

If anything, credit should go to the military who did the grunt work, not a politician thousands of miles away.

 

[Scotteq]

If anything, credit should go to the military who did the grunt work, not a politician thousands of miles away.

Thank You: The CIA, DIA, (etc), and Military were the ones who did the actual work. The first president gave the "go do this" order. And the second responded to the "we found him" report with a "take him out" order.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Scotteq, "neither deserve full credit" = a sharing of THE credit. You even assert that the Commander in chief does not act directly to keep dancing around your denial. Obama was responsible for this going down, and as such he ultimately deserves THE credit, without qualifications, but folks like you just can't admit it to yourselves. You'd rather hem and haw and flail about making accusations of what you're clearly guilty of yourself than acknowledge the reality of the matter. It shouldn't surprise me, it really shouldn't, but you'd think bringing down the number one most wanted terrorist in the world after ten years would break through even the thickest Republican-colored glasses.

 

[Scotteq]

Scotteq, "neither deserve full credit" = a sharing of THE credit. You even assert that the Commander in chief does not act directly to keep dancing around your denial. Obama was responsible for this going down, and as such he deserves THE credit, without qualifications, but folks like you just can't admit it to yourselves. You'd rather hem and haw and flail about making accusations of what you're clearly guilty of yourself than acknowledge the reality of the matter. It shouldn't surprise me, it really shouldn't, but you'd think bringing down the number one most wanted terrorist in the world after ten years would break through even the thickest Republican-colored glasses.

Gonad: Thank you for ONCE AGAIN complately failing to comprehend my point, and for yet again putting words on my mouth WHICH I DID NOT SAY.


I said - and in the post immediately preceding yours, no less:

Thank You: The CIA, DIA, (etc), and Military were the ones who did the actual work. The first president gave the "go do this" order. And the second responded to the "we found him" report with a "take him out" order.

Secondly: I am not a Republican either. I am an Independent. And so now we have yet another example of YOU talking out your ass about shit you've made up. But given how hard you've been shilling for your guy in this thread, that's not a surprise either.


Thirdly - YOU are the one "flailing around making accusations" about shit that I have not said.

 

[cwjerome]

I didn't say you said he deserves no credit. I'm saying what you and so many of your cohorts are saying, that Bush deserves as much or more, is flat out BS. You throw that token "some credit" Obama's way because of some sort of emotional inability to admit to yourselves that as the Commander in chief Obama deserves not just some, but THE credit.

Obama deserves THE credit? What about all the organizational alignment, vast expansion, vision, mission, resources, and manpower created and devoted to counter-terrorism over the last 10 years or so? All the hundreds of people directly and indirectly involved in the collection, analysis, and execution of the intel and missions that made this possible? Why would you completely discount all the factors involved to say one person gets THE credit? It seems to me that once again your being a partisan tool, just like the people in the poll you criticize. Your public dumbness is anonymous but still embarrassing.

I think Obama deserves a lot of credit, obviously he oversees these institutions and calls the final shots. But I'm not going to ignore the big picture.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Lol..If the moon was made out of green cheese. The President doesn't get over ruled.

In this context yes they do. This wasn't against policy, but it was an affirmative action. True or not Presidents don't have Jedi mind powers to control every action of their staff.

I think the article is worth posting in itself for consideration.

 

[Nemesis 1]

The president does a lot more than just give the final go ahead. They also set the overall strategy, which leads to the individual missions.

Bush and Obama have very different overall strategies. Bush went with the conventional option, large forces on the ground. Obama has changed that to a strategy based on targetted drone strikes and special ops.

Furthermore the President sets the priorities, and Bush made it very clear on several occasions that he wasn't really looking for Osama that hard, while Obama made it a campaign promise that he would go get the bastard, even if that meant going into Pakistan.

LOL ! Your kidding right . IF obama made the planes it would have failed as everthing he has done has failed. The only thing Obama has shown any of us is thats he is the GREATEST liar ever to sit in that office,

You have Zero proof Osama died on sunday . DNA . Could have been gotten along time ago when we trained the terrorist to be a terrorist . Pics were basicly useless. Now a body were we could prove its him and the TIME of death that all got washed out to sea.

THERE IS NO PROOF HE DIED sunday only a liars word. You can believe the liar if you like no skin off of my ass.

So you to believe that Obama took his daughter swimming in the Gulf. When its clear as hell the water was wrong color for the ocean .

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

LOL ! Your kidding right . IF obama made the planes it would have failed as everthing he has done has failed. The only thing Obama has hown any of us is thats he is the GREATEST liar ever to sit in that office,

You have Zero proof Osama died on sunday . DNA . Could have been gotten along time ago when we trained the terrorist to be a terrorist . Pics were basicly useless. Now a body were we could prove its him and the TIME of death that all got washed out to sea.

THERE IS NO PROOF HE DIED sunday only a liars word. You can believe the liar if you like no skin off of my ass.

So you to believe that Obama took his daughter swimming in the Gulf. When its clear as hell the water was wrong color for the ocean .

Wow...those must be some powerful meds your on.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Obama deserves THE credit? What about all the organizational alignment, vast expansion, vision, mission, resources, and manpower created and devoted to counter-terrorism over the last 10 years or so? All the hundreds of people directly and indirectly involved in the collection, analysis, and execution of the intel and missions that made this possible? Why would you completely discount all the factors involved to say one person gets THE credit? It seems to me that once again your being a partisan tool, just like the people in the poll you criticize. Your public dumbness is anonymous but still embarrassing.

I think Obama deserves a lot of credit, obviously he oversees these institutions and calls the final shots. But I'm not going to ignore the big picture.

The commander and chief deserves THE credit, for the success or failure, of the military operations that take place under him. It's only been that way since forever until now that it was Obama who bagged the biggest fish in the pond. To suggest I'm discounting all the other people and factors that contributed to this ludicrous, but nice job trying to turn this around to me not giving the proper people their due credit.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Wow...those must be some powerful meds your on.

YA YAYA. Befor this year is over you shall sing a differant tune if you survive.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Don't worry it's all ending on May 21

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

YA YAYA. Befor this year is over you shall sing a differant tune if you survive.

What's coming this year? Please be specific so I can fact check you on 12/31/11. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here.

 

[cubby1223]

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_new...e-point-bounce-for-obama-after-bin-laden-news



I'll put something here to keep this from being locked for lack of comment, but if I put real comments it would likely earn me a vacation. What is it going to take with you guys? If setting the priorities and making the calls that take down the number one terrorist in the world doesn't earn proper cred with you folks you really need to take a good, hard look at yourselves and own up to just why that is.

What does it say about you feeling the need to post this here? You yourself are right now using this situation to put down people of "the other side" while boosting your own ego.

You're using this time here to force your own judgments on who deserves what amount of credit, instead of simply enjoying the fact that Osama is dead, and leaving politics out of it.