Do most Christians realize our founding fathers were not Christian?

[Genx87]

Even in China, a poll was given to high school and college age students, and Bill Gates was admired more than Chairman Mao (who many in the older generation in China, literally worship). Now that's something. The American spirit is catching on.

Can you blame them? They know socialism's failures first hand.

 

[Schadenfroh]

1. George Washington - Deist
2. John Adams - Unitarian
3. Thomas Jefferson - Deist
4. James Madison - (questionable: raised Episcopalian, but has been referenced as Deiest, not completely sure)
5. James Monroe - Deist
6. John Quincy Adams - Unitarian

Lots of Deists in there, did the first 6 presidents believe in intelligent design?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: sandorski
We worship nobody and have done well with our choice.

You're still forced recognize her as your superior, even though she has done nothing to earn it. Every time you buy something, you still see her snobbish grill staring you down on your coins.

It's immoral and an insult to justice. If I was born and lived in Canada, I would be beyond furious. It's a shame Canadians don't seem to have the idealistic courage Americans do.

hehe, you gonna be here all week? Good stuff. :thumbsup:

The veal is pretty good too.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister
I certainly would not call the early Americans cowards, because it took alot of courage to live in this country at that time.

lol, I still get a kick out of this cartoon

Scared Americans

Everytime I read this forum, I get the impression Americans are scared of everything.
Bird flu, terrorists, muslims, gotta have my gun to protect me from everything, nukes are making a big come back etc etc

Religion is a significant part of the culture of the United States. The United States is one of the most religious developed nations in the world; according to a 44-nation survey by the Pew Global Attitudes Project, religion is more important to people in the US than to those in other industrialized nations[1], second only to Ireland. Gallup International indicates that 41% (2001[2]) of American citizens report they regularly attend religious services, compared to 15% of French citizens, 7% of UK citizens, and 25% of Israeli citizens.

Religion in the United States

When that hypocrite just got busted , the articles mentioned something like 30 million followers? And believe me, those types make sure to vote

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: shortylickens
My whole problem with the "Founding Fathers" issue is that most founding fathers were slavers and only believed that land-owning white males were "equal".

I try not to get too hung up on what this country was based on.
This country was based on lies, murder, rape, theft, enslavement, destruction, hypocricy and a dozen other negative concepts.

I try to focus on where we're going, not where we came from.

Yes, they were like every other single person on the planet at that time. There are plenty of great minds who have believed crazy things, Charles Darwin for example.

If there is anything to say about America and Christianity, it's that yes Christianity does have its influence in our government. Christianity and religion, is not a basis for our beliefs or constitution.

/end thread

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: shortylickens
My whole problem with the "Founding Fathers" issue is that most founding fathers were slavers and only believed that land-owning white males were "equal".

I try not to get too hung up on what this country was based on.
This country was based on lies, murder, rape, theft, enslavement, destruction, hypocricy and a dozen other negative concepts.

I try to focus on where we're going, not where we came from.

Yes, they were like every other single person on the planet at that time. There are plenty of great minds who have believed crazy things, Charles Darwin for example.

Yup, in a couple centuries people will be aghast over something we do now and consider normal. Who knows what it could be? Maybe having sex with the opposite Sex or using the Root of all Evil "English Language". :shrug;

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: shortylickens
My whole problem with the "Founding Fathers" issue is that most founding fathers were slavers and only believed that land-owning white males were "equal".

I try not to get too hung up on what this country was based on.
This country was based on lies, murder, rape, theft, enslavement, destruction, hypocricy and a dozen other negative concepts.

I try to focus on where we're going, not where we came from.

Yes, they were like every other single person on the planet at that time. There are plenty of great minds who have believed crazy things, Charles Darwin for example.

Yup, in a couple centuries people will be aghast over something we do now and consider normal. Who knows what it could be? Maybe having sex with the opposite Sex or using the Root of all Evil "English Language". :shrug;

I'll predict right of that bat that in the future being gay won't be a problem and the continued legalization/decriminalization of illegal drugs; specifically pot.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
You're still forced recognize her as your superior, even though she has done nothing to earn it. Every time you buy something, you still see her snobbish grill staring you down on your coins.

It's immoral and an insult to justice. If I was born and lived in Canada, I would be beyond furious. It's a shame Canadians don't seem to have the idealistic courage Americans do.

So Canadians are wimps because they have queen elizabeth on their currency? Puh-leeze

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: shortylickens
My whole problem with the "Founding Fathers" issue is that most founding fathers were slavers and only believed that land-owning white males were "equal".

I try not to get too hung up on what this country was based on.
This country was based on lies, murder, rape, theft, enslavement, destruction, hypocricy and a dozen other negative concepts.

I try to focus on where we're going, not where we came from.

Yes, they were like every other single person on the planet at that time. There are plenty of great minds who have believed crazy things, Charles Darwin for example.

Yup, in a couple centuries people will be aghast over something we do now and consider normal. Who knows what it could be? Maybe having sex with the opposite Sex or using the Root of all Evil "English Language". :shrug;

I'll predict right of that bat that in the future being gay won't be a problem and the continued legalization/decriminalization of illegal drugs; specifically pot.

More radically, I wouldn't be surprised if marriage eventually changed around altogether. Who knows? Maybe marriage will become a group union between many men and women. Or it could just stay as it is.

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: blackllotus
So Canadians are wimps because they have queen elizabeth on their currency? Puh-leeze

If they're not wimps, why do they put up with it?

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

lol, I still get a kick out of this cartoon

Scared Americans

Thanks for sharing that, it pretty much sums it up.


Must be kinda old though, they missed:

OMG Mexicans! More walls!

OMG Muslims! Bomb them!

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: blackllotus
So Canadians are wimps because they have queen elizabeth on their currency? Puh-leeze

If they're not wimps, why do they put up with it?

The * In God we Trust* on your money kind of makes this thread really funny

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
The * In God we Trust* on your money kind of makes this thread really funny

Which topic are you referring that to? The queen on Canadian money? Or the religious basis of the country's founding?

 

[Starbuck1975]

Christianity's biggest claim to fame is being the dominant Religion of Western Civilization and it certainly was an integral part of Europe's early developement(post Roman Empire), but even so Europe's and the West's greatest rise came after that influence was severely curtailed.

Here is where I disagree...the Christian Church largely kept the candle of knowledge burning during the Dark Ages and Middle Ages after the fall of the Roman Empire...it was not until religion and politics became infused during the divine right monarchy era of Europe that the "dark" side of Christianity reared its ugly head.

Many consider the Rennaissance a turning point in Europe's development, transitioning from a feudal to an enlightened society...the arts and culture of the Rennaissance largely set the groundwork for the revolutions in thought and action that led to the demise of the divine right monarchies, and arguably the founding of America...Christianity played a large part in supporting and commissioning the artists who defined the Rennaissance movement...and with the exception of perhaps Galileo, due to the inherent conflict between science and religion, Christianity was a positive influence on western society's evolution.

Deism is fundamentally incompatible with Christianity, so it cannot be both.

Not entirely true...deism still has a certain monotheist element to it, which is very much a Judeo-Christian fundamental...I don't think deists disagree with the tenets of Christianity...rather the human construct and institution of the Christian church, and the controlling element it introduces to faith and spirituality.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: blackllotus
So Canadians are wimps because they have queen elizabeth on their currency? Puh-leeze

If they're not wimps, why do they put up with it?

The * In God we Trust* on your money kind of makes this thread really funny

Why does God have to be a Christian deity? This is what simple narrow-minded people just don't get. Many religions have a "God", yet they all somehow thing their God is *THE* God. WTF be so arrogant?

Christianity != God. Believing in a God, no matter if it is Christian or not = God.

If you actually knew anything about Deists, instead of spouting off, only few of them ever doubted the existence of God, but all more or less rejected Christianity.

Knowledge and education FTW!

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Christianity's biggest claim to fame is being the dominant Religion of Western Civilization and it certainly was an integral part of Europe's early developement(post Roman Empire), but even so Europe's and the West's greatest rise came after that influence was severely curtailed.

Here is where I disagree...the Christian Church largely kept the candle of knowledge burning during the Dark Ages and Middle Ages after the fall of the Roman Empire...it was not until religion and politics became infused during the divine right monarchy era of Europe that the "dark" side of Christianity reared its ugly head.

Many consider the Rennaissance a turning point in Europe's development, transitioning from a feudal to an enlightened society...the arts and culture of the Rennaissance largely set the groundwork for the revolutions in thought and action that led to the demise of the divine right monarchies, and arguably the founding of America...Christianity played a large part in supporting and commissioning the artists who defined the Rennaissance movement...and with the exception of perhaps Galileo, due to the inherent conflict between science and religion, Christianity was a positive influence on western society's evolution.

Deism is fundamentally incompatible with Christianity, so it cannot be both.

Not entirely true...deism still has a certain monotheist element to it, which is very much a Judeo-Christian fundamental...I don't think deists disagree with the tenets of Christianity...rather the human construct and institution of the Christian church, and the controlling element it introduces to faith and spirituality.

They also kept society in the dark by promoting group-think and manipulated the masses into narrow minded patterns. They also conned billions out of peasants and kept them under the shackles of serfdom by supporting monarchies through deified rule.

Many other societies in the world had and equal, if not greater, body of knowledge than Europe coming out of the dark ages.

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Not entirely true...deism still has a certain monotheist element to it, which is very much a Judeo-Christian fundamental...I don't think deists disagree with the tenets of Christianity...rather the human construct and institution of the Christian church, and the controlling element it introduces to faith and spirituality.

Deism does not accept "revealed" religion, and holds that God is to be "discovered" through logic and reason.

Deists like myself believe in a god, but the basic point behind deism is that we believe God doesn't reveal himself through miracles or prophets, but only through science and our natural human admiration and awe for the world.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
The * In God we Trust* on your money kind of makes this thread really funny

Which topic are you referring that to? The queen on Canadian money? Or the religious basis of the country's founding?

Both
Why would I be a wimp because I put up with the Queen on my money, yet you put up with *In God we Trust* on yours

Originally posted by: LegendKiller


Why does God have to be a Christian deity? This is what simple narrow-minded people just don't get. Many religions have a "God", yet they all somehow thing their God is *THE* God. WTF be so arrogant?

Christianity != God. Believing in a God, no matter if it is Christian or not = God.

If you actually knew anything about Deists, instead of spouting off, only few of them ever doubted the existence of God, but all more or less rejected Christianity.

Knowledge and education FTW!

I learn new things here everyday, your post taught me nothing though

WTF be so arrogant?

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
The * In God we Trust* on your money kind of makes this thread really funny

Which topic are you referring that to? The queen on Canadian money? Or the religious basis of the country's founding?

Both
Why would I be a wimp because I put up with the Queen on my money, yet you put up with *In God we Trust* on yours

Originally posted by: LegendKiller


Why does God have to be a Christian deity? This is what simple narrow-minded people just don't get. Many religions have a "God", yet they all somehow thing their God is *THE* God. WTF be so arrogant?

Christianity != God. Believing in a God, no matter if it is Christian or not = God.

If you actually knew anything about Deists, instead of spouting off, only few of them ever doubted the existence of God, but all more or less rejected Christianity.

Knowledge and education FTW!

I learn new things here everyday, your post taught me nothing though

WTF be so arrogant?

Not surprising that it taught you nothing. Those unwilling are unable.

A God doesn't have to be the Christian God, only a complete Christian tool would think otherwise.

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
Both
Why would I be a wimp because I put up with the Queen on my money, yet you put up with *In God we Trust* on yours

1. Since when does Christianity have anything to do with God? It doesn't in my mind. As Thomas Paine once brought up, I find the Christian religion to be quite insulting towards God, to imply he is vengeful and arrogant.

2. To say having the queen on your coin is comparable to having God on our coin is completely ridiculous. There is a big difference between a person and God. The Queen of England is a real live human being, just like you and me. Yet somehow, she is on Canadian currency, despite having done nothing to earn it. I define "god" as "creator of the universe" and no matter what you believe, you believe in god. Christians believe in a bearded man in the sky. I believe in a natural god in harmony with science and the universe. Atheists may be nature itself (pantheism). The universe exists, therefore it was created, therefore must have a creator. Perhaps it was it's own creator, perhaps a bearded man in the sky, perhaps an my deist god. Point is, "god" can mean a number of things.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: blackllotus
So Canadians are wimps because they have queen elizabeth on their currency? Puh-leeze

If they're not wimps, why do they put up with it?

The * In God we Trust* on your money kind of makes this thread really funny

Why does God have to be a Christian deity? This is what simple narrow-minded people just don't get. Many religions have a "God", yet they all somehow thing their God is *THE* God. WTF be so arrogant?

Christianity != God. Believing in a God, no matter if it is Christian or not = God.

If you actually knew anything about Deists, instead of spouting off, only few of them ever doubted the existence of God, but all more or less rejected Christianity.

Knowledge and education FTW!

Its very clear which god we trust in.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
The * In God we Trust* on your money kind of makes this thread really funny

It's been less than 100 years since the U.S. Congress mandated that U.S. coins bear that silly little phrase: link, and less than 50 years since US paper currency started bearing it: link.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: blackllotus
More radically, I wouldn't be surprised if marriage eventually changed around altogether. Who knows? Maybe marriage will become a group union between many men and women. Or it could just stay as it is.

And "as it is" is fewer and fewer people actually getting married at all: link.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: shortylickens
My whole problem with the "Founding Fathers" issue is that most founding fathers were slavers and only believed that land-owning white males were "equal".

I try not to get too hung up on what this country was based on.
This country was based on lies, murder, rape, theft, enslavement, destruction, hypocricy and a dozen other negative concepts.

I try to focus on where we're going, not where we came from.

Europe is a terrible place to go IMO, as far as direction is concerned.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Not surprising that it taught you nothing. Those unwilling are unable.

A God doesn't have to be the Christian God, only a complete Christian tool would think otherwise.

Sigh, do I have to have a label stuck on me? I guess if you must then I'm probably closer to a Deist then a Christian tool

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Its very clear which god we trust in.

In the John Carpenter sci-fi movie They Live, the subliminal message hidden on money is the phrase "This is your God".