Do Islam and the USA share a desire to impose their will on the world?

[Infohawk]

HumblePie, no I'm not saying the US and Islam are equal evils on the world. You are jumping to conclusions. Let me make it clear: the US is a much more positive force on the world than islam. Personally, I think democracy and free markets are much better things to push on other people than religious nonsense. Islam brings nothing to the world.

I'm happy you take an interest in fallacious reasoning but you're not applying the rules properly.

Association Fallacy:
Premise A is a B
Premise A is also a C
Conclusion Therefore, all Bs are Cs

I did not say the US is the same as Islam. I said they share a trait. Do you not see the difference? Please don't be one of those with us or against us people. The world is not black and white.

 

[Tom]

Lots of Americans agree we shouldn't have invaded Iraq.

We spent a trillion dollars to advance the retirement of Saddam a few years, and he wasn't bothering us nearly as much as he bothered the Iranians.

Stupid.

 

[Moonbeam]

Lots of Americans agree we shouldn't have invaded Iraq.

We spent a trillion dollars to advance the retirement of Saddam a few years, and he wasn't bothering us nearly as much as he bothered the Iranians.

Stupid.

Americans men are profoundly sexually insecure. They cover this up by being cowboys, and drinking beer, being on some kind of team, and cheering for somebody playing a game. Cowboys like war because they need to put on that manly feeling. It's all about sad sad men who have low testosterone levels because they hate themselves. Real men pick flowers and can sew.

 

[Infohawk]

Americans men are profoundly sexually insecure. They cover this up by being cowboys, and drinking beer, being on some kind of team, and cheering for somebody playing a game. Cowboys like war because they need to put on that manly feeling. It's all about sad sad men who have low testosterone levels because they hate themselves. Real men pick flowers and can sew.

What are your thoughts on dudeism?

http://dudeism.com/

 

[piasabird]

So spreading freedom would be a bad thing?

So are you for oppression and facism?

Perhaps you want to be a Nazi instead.

Maybe you would have preferred a Tyranical King or to live the life of a Surf?

What kind of alternate scenario would you prefer to live under? I think you should tell us all what you prefer.

You wont make many friends showing people a picture of chairman Mao!

I was for a complete pullout from the Middle East. I dont think we can ever solve problems there. Maybe we would be better off spending our aid dollars in some other countries. We would be better off invading Mexico.

 

[Infohawk]

So spreading freedom would be a bad thing?

So are you for oppression and facism?

Perhaps you want to be a Nazi instead.

Maybe you would have preferred a Tyranical King or to live the life of a Surf?

Spreading freedom is not necessarily a bad thing.

And no, I don't prefer the life of a slave. I live in America. But I suggest if Iranians want their freedom they can fight for it themselves.

 

[MJinZ]

And some have been cutting more heads off in recent years in furtherance of this goal than others. Just like some countries have been invading more countries in recent years than others.

Why does recent years matter? Christians have been doing it forever. Should we have eliminated Christianity a while back? Since Muslims are doing it now, should we eliminate Islam?

 

[MJinZ]

I dont think America wants to spread democracy to the world as much as it wants to ensure it has stable trading partners. Its easy and profitable for America to trade with democracies with America had a hand in creating, its not to easy to trade with a country with anti America leanings, ie most middle east and all communist states.

Islam just wants everyone not a Muslim to die or convert.

End result, I suppose, is the same, but the motivation is different.

That's why China owns like 40% of American debt right...

 

[Infohawk]

Why does recent years matter? Christians have been doing it forever. Should we have eliminated Christianity a while back? Since Muslims are doing it now, should we eliminate Islam?

Recent years matters because the causal relation to the present is stronger.

Sure, it would have been great if Christians had been defeated in South America when they were forcibly converting natives. They weren't.

As to what we should do with muslims, see the poll on the front page.

 

[NesuD]

Medieval religion in a modern world. Simple as that.

 

[MJinZ]

Medieval religion in a modern world. Simple as that.

:hmm: Christians :hmm:

 

[Moonbeam]

What are your thoughts on dudeism?

http://dudeism.com/

I think it's a heretical use of the word dude.

 

[Mani]

The only Muslims I know are here in the US and seem to have no desire for religious domination but I'm curious if the average "rest of world" Muslim really holds the this ambition. Does "Islam" really want to impose its will on the world, or is this just the will of its more vocal and extreme elements that get all the press play? Serious question.

 

[Noobtastic]

:hmm: Christians :hmm:

Yeah, Christians are treated like animals in the Muslim world.

Maybe that's why the Left is so in love with them. Please move to the peace-loving Islamic tribes and renounce your citizenship to evil imperialist Christian america.

 

[Mani]

What are your thoughts on dudeism?

http://dudeism.com/

Still looks to be less idiotic than most organized religions. Sign me up.

 

[Infohawk]

The only Muslims I know are here in the US and seem to have no desire for religious domination but I'm curious if the average "rest of world" Muslim really holds the this ambition. Does "Islam" really want to impose its will on the world, or is this just the will of its more vocal and extreme elements that get all the press play? Serious question.

My guess is that the larger group is merely intolerant of intruders (same as most people) in their areas and there is a more violent vocal minority that wants to impose Sharia law everywhere.

 

[MJinZ]

Yeah, Christians are treated like animals in the Muslim world.

Maybe that's why the Left is so in love with them. Please move to the peace-loving Islamic tribes and renounce your citizenship to evil imperialist Christian america.

Uh, is Christianity a Medieval religion or not?

 

[Noobtastic]

Uh, is Christianity a Medieval religion or not?

Christianity had an enlightenment, Islam hasn't.

America is 75% Christian, yet a progressive modern, and probably the freest and most tolerant state.

Even "enlightened" states like Turkey treat their Kurdish minority like shit and Christians/rivaling Muslims like animals.

Look how muslims treat each other. most of the conflict is based on the sunni/shiite split.

imagine if lutherans, baptists, methodists all killing each other for 1700 years.

Islam is a medieval and supremacist religion. Everyone knows this.

Of course....it's not half as bad as their communist allies.

 

[woolfe9999]

That's why China owns like 40% of American debt right...

Nope, it's closer to 7%. Combined, Japan and China own about 44% of our foreign debt, with a little more to China than Japan. The foreign debt, in turn, is about 25% of the total debt.

This is a common misconception. Just thought I'd clear that up.

- wolf

 

[Matthiasa]

A better question is what country or religion doesn't when it has the means to?

 

[Infohawk]

A better question is what country or religion doesn't when it has the means to?

Good point but the funny thing about Islam is it doesn't seem to have the means to.

 

[ProfJohn]

Let's look at the attitudes towards the Second Iraq war. Americans wanted to project their system of government (democracy) on the Muslim world. They want to project their McWorld onto the Middle-East. Meanwhile, the continental Europeans did not want to invade the middle-east, but they do want to keep Islam out.

This statement is completely false.

It is like saying that we attacked Japan in WW 2 in order to impose democracy on them.

We attacked Sadam because of the perceived threat his terrorist ties and WMD imposed on us in a post 9-11 world.

If our true goal was in project democracy upon the middle east then why didn't we invade Saudi Arabi, or Yemen, or Syria or a dozen other smaller and easier to handle countries?

As for the US v. Islam question.

The US will generally leave you alone if you leave us alone. There are multiple countries in the world with dictatorships as bad or worse than Sadam and the Taliban and we have left most of them alone. Iran has been a thorn in our side for 30+ years and yet we have never taken any action against them. The only time the US tends to take action is after we have been attacked first.

Radical Islam on the other hand doesn't care what you do or don't do. The fact that you exist and refuse to follow their religion and beliefs is enough to get them to act.

In short:
Radical Islam does desire to IMPOSE their will on the world.

The US would love for you to follow our way of life, but generally if you don't bug us then we won't bug you.

 

[Infohawk]

We attacked Sadam because of the perceived threat his terrorist ties and WMD imposed on us in a post 9-11 world.

If our true goal was in project democracy upon the middle east then why didn't we invade Saudi Arabi, or Yemen, or Syria or a dozen other smaller and easier to handle countries?

Hiliarious. So hard to keep up with the ever-changing justifications for that war.

Bottom line: US invaded Iraq when it had no good reason to. The US is interventionist and has been for a long time. It's laughable to act like the US only "defends itself."

 

[ProfJohn]

Hiliarious. So hard to keep up with the ever-changing justifications for that war.

Bottom line: US invaded Iraq when it had no good reason to. The US is interventionist and has been for a long time. It's laughable to act like the US only "defends itself."

There is no 'ever-changing' justification for the war.

The justification was spell out from the very beginning.

Go read it for yourself:
http://www.gpo.gov:80/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107publ243/html/PLAW-107publ243.htm

Every thing that came afterwards relates to "well we didn't find WMD, but going to war was still a good idea because..." But the reason for the initial invasion was clearly spelled out.

 

[Kappo]

HumblePie, no I'm not saying the US and Islam are equal evils on the world. You are jumping to conclusions. Let me make it clear: the US is a much more positive force on the world than islam. Personally, I think democracy and free markets are much better things to push on other people than religious nonsense. Islam brings nothing to the world.

I'm happy you take an interest in fallacious reasoning but you're not applying the rules properly.

Association Fallacy:
Premise A is a B
Premise A is also a C
Conclusion Therefore, all Bs are Cs

I did not say the US is the same as Islam. I said they share a trait. Do you not see the difference? Please don't be one of those with us or against us people. The world is not black and white.

Share a trait? We all share a trait with mass murders, rapists and serial killers.

Do you have a point or are you just wanting to delve into the world of Captain Obvious?