Do I want a deck with footings or a floating deck?

Jumpem

Lifer
Sep 21, 2000
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A contractor that I have used recommends a floating deck so that if he deck moves up or down, the connection to the house will not be strained or at angle.

The HOA regulations suggest footings 48" deep. Is this to get below the frost line to minimize any deck movement?
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
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641
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A deck not attached to the house still needs footings for the support posts.

Yes, the footing depth is to get below the frost line so that there will be no heaving when the ground freezes. Vertical movement is movement so you are technically correct.

My deck has been in place for 22 years. It has footings for the posts and is attached to the house as well. I also live most of the year in an area that requires 48" footings. A deck does not have to be attached to the house. There are code requirements either way that must be met. They will vary across the nation. Neither way is wrong as long as it meets code.
 

Humpy

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2011
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A contractor that I have used recommends a floating deck so that if he deck moves up or down, the connection to the house will not be strained or at angle.

If it's connected to the house, it's not a floating deck, and should typically have footings that extend below the frost line.

If it's directly adjacent to the house, but not connected, it should still have footings that extend below the frost line because direction of movement is not entirely predictable. Though, a floating deck can simply be repositioned/shimmed if it settles unevenly and causes issues rubbing against the house or creating trip hazards.
 

Carson Dyle

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2012
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A deck not attached to the house still needs footings for the support posts.

This.

It can be both floating, in that it's not attached to the house, and it can have footings. If you live in an area with expansive soils, or somewhere were mine subsidence is an issue, a floating deck is probably a very good idea.
 

Jumpem

Lifer
Sep 21, 2000
10,757
3
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If it's connected to the house, it's not a floating deck, and should typically have footings that extend below the frost line.

If it's directly adjacent to the house, but not connected, it should still have footings that extend below the frost line because direction of movement is not entirely predictable. Though, a floating deck can simply be repositioned/shimmed if it settles unevenly and causes issues rubbing against the house or creating trip hazards.

The floating deck in this case would not be connected. If I got something with footings, I probably wouldn't want to disturb the new siding either. Maybe have it positioned a half inch, or so, away from the house.

That is a good point, that movement of a floating deck could be horizontal, not just vertical.
 

Humpy

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2011
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The floating deck in this case would not be connected. If I got something with footings, I probably wouldn't want to disturb the new siding either. Maybe have it positioned a half inch, or so, away from the house.

That is a good point, that movement of a floating deck could be horizontal, not just vertical.

The frequent problems with water intrusion at the deck ledger connection to the house are eliminated with a freestanding structure and is well worth considering. One problem with a freestanding deck that is sometimes hard to overcome is placing footings in undisturbed soil near the house. A true floating deck potentially avoids both water intrusion and the need for deeper footings but get exponentially more expensive as height increases.

So many trade offs with cost and design and local conditions that it's always hard to say which is best.
 

Micrornd

Golden Member
Mar 2, 2013
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Just a suggestion.

Decks in all parts of the country, that I know of, are covered under building codes (and require a permit, even for ground level, unattached decks).
The local building dept. would be the place to start for what is required in your area for stand alone vs. attached.
In my area of FL, decks must be fastened to footings or tied down (cable and ground anchor) to meet wind requirements.

And yes, I know that many are built without permits, so were mine, but they were built to local code, which greatly simplified things when even though the building dept. was unaware of them, the tax assessor turned me in 3 years after they were built. :(
 

Humpy

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2011
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I think you're mistaken. A deck built out in the middle of your yard couldn't be attached to your house even if you wanted it to be. "Floating" just means not attached to the house.

The terms are kinda meaningless and interchangeable.

In my experience, floating is a style of deck that is free standing, low to the ground, and may or may not be anchored. In construction lingo it usually means it is just sitting on the surface of the ground, on a gravel bed, or on a concrete slab, held in place by gravity, not anchored.

A freestanding deck is not attached to another structure, can be any height, and is usually anchored to a permanent foundation but doesn't have to be. On sand or permafrost it can simply sit on pads, i.e. float.

If it's not described as floating or freestanding then it is usually a deck attached by a ledger to a house and also supported by some number of posts, as opposed to a balcony which typically doesn't have support posts.

If it has a roof then it's a porch. Or is it a veranda? And at what point can it be called a stoop? Can a patio be elevated and made of wood?

Turns out I don't know anything.
 

Jumpem

Lifer
Sep 21, 2000
10,757
3
81
I think you're mistaken. A deck built out in the middle of your yard couldn't be attached to your house even if you wanted it to be. "Floating" just means not attached to the house.

Floating in my case means the deck is resting on blocks like these versus footings.

frame09.jpg
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
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So, what are you going to have done?

I don't see how a HOA can "suggest" footings 48" deep. That's the wording you used and if that's the way they worded it, then you can do as you please. However...

What is driving my interest in this thread is the 48" depth. That tells me you live in a northern part of the country that has moderate to severe winters. When I see a 48" depth for footings, that tells me that a floating deck as you describe it is not allowed in your area.

If the HOA is suggesting footings and the contractor is talking floating, that is a huge disparity that I would want to settle through the building department with authority in your area before I dropped any money on this project. None of us can provide you with an answer that holds any validity because we only know what you are telling us and the information you are receiving varies so widely.

http://www.decks.com/how-to/264/deck-footing-frost-depth-map

The depth you are required to set your frost footings will vary from region to region across the country. If you live in a warm climate like South Florida where frost rarely ever occurs you may be allowed to place your footings on grade, but in very cold regions like Minnesota and Canada you will need to dig down 48” or more. Always check with your local building inspections department to see what is required in your area.
 

Jumpem

Lifer
Sep 21, 2000
10,757
3
81
So, what are you going to have done?

I don't see how a HOA can "suggest" footings 48" deep. That's the wording you used and if that's the way they worded it, then you can do as you please. However...

What is driving my interest in this thread is the 48" depth. That tells me you live in a northern part of the country that has moderate to severe winters. When I see a 48" depth for footings, that tells me that a floating deck as you describe it is not allowed in your area.

If the HOA is suggesting footings and the contractor is talking floating, that is a huge disparity that I would want to settle through the building department with authority in your area before I dropped any money on this project. None of us can provide you with an answer that holds any validity because we only know what you are telling us and the information you are receiving varies so widely.

http://www.decks.com/how-to/264/deck-footing-frost-depth-map

I need to get in touch with the town codes department. I think they may be part time though as I only get an answering machine each time I call.

The ground does freeze and we get a lot of snow. I have no idea if floating decks are against local regulations. The contractor said he does a lot of them.

The main thing I want to avoid is adding a ledger board to the house. The back just had new cedar siding put up because the old siding was cupping and splitting. I don't want to mess with it. I just want a deck that is self supporting and will stay level and not come in contact with the house.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
I need to get in touch with the town codes department. I think they may be part time though as I only get an answering machine each time I call.

The ground does freeze and we get a lot of snow. I have no idea if floating decks are against local regulations. The contractor said he does a lot of them.

The main thing I want to avoid is adding a ledger board to the house. The back just had new cedar siding put up because the old siding was cupping and splitting. I don't want to mess with it. I just want a deck that is self supporting and will stay level and not come in contact with the house.
My deck is elevated because the property slopes off dramatically. The deck comes out on a 45 degree angle to the house. The highest point of the deck I can just reach with my fingertips when standing on my tip-toes. My stairs are 6' wide and start on an area of the ground that is pretty much level. Yes, this is hard to envision. My support posts are in the ground with footings that are at a 48" depth. I poured a small slab for the base of the stairs and that slab is sitting on the ground. No footings, I just dug about four inches deep and put down sand before I did the pour. The deck has been in place for 22 years and I have had no issues with the stairs heaving.

It makes one wonder why footings below the frost line are even required. It's because ground heaving due to frost is unpredictable. With footings, my posts have not heaved but without footings the slab has not heaved. Twenty two years so far but who knows what I'll come home to next spring?

I'm not trying to confuse you, I'm just relating my experience.

I'm going to venture a guess that a permit is not required for deck construction where you live. That was the case when I originally built mine 22 years ago. A deck, a shed, the township did not care. Now they only care about a shed over a certain square footage in which case a permit and an inspection is required. But a deck must be permitted and inspected. The reason is that deck failures with loss of life and personal injuries are big news across the nation these days. There was one this past summer if I recall correctly.

My deck is elevated, requires railings and I can understand the need for permitting and inspection these days. If yours is going to end up 10" or 12" off the ground, does it need to go through that process? Perhaps not.

Your HOA is recommending footings 48" below ground because IMO they would like you to build a "permanent" structure. One that will withstand the ravages of time. I think you will end up finding that a permit is not required and as such a floating deck is legal. It's going to come down to how long do you plan on living there and to what degree are you comfortable in rolling the dice regarding frost heaving. Obviously the price will factor in too when it comes to footings versus floating. Your choice of material costs will be a big factor also. Composite decking material is exponentially more expensive than wood products.

Off on a tangent, the requirements for decks being built in my area now have added thousands to the cost of a deck. We are no longer allowed to have a deck that is not attached to the house and there must be an unbelievable amount of hardware that connects through the ledger board into the floor joists running many feet into the structure of the house. Different hardware is required depending on whether the joists run parallel to the deck joists or at right angles to the deck joists and more structure may need to be added inside the home. No more 4 x 4 support posts they must be either 4 x 6 or 6 x 6 minimum depending on the height off of the grade. There are restrictions on fasteners used, their placement, bracing and the method by which they are fastened, etc., etc. The wild, wild west of deck building is over here.

I re-skinned mine this summer. New composite deck boards with hidden fasteners, new maintenance free railings and I had to make all new stringers for the stairs. They were quite rotted because the wolmanized lumber available at the time was just little more than a surface application. Wherever the stringers were cut for treads and risers the surface was essentially untreated and the horizontal surfaces had rotted out. The posts and the supporting structure were in excellent shape. The ledger board was in excellent shape as was the wood siding it was attached to. I was amazed. I expected the worst.