Do I care about 4K @ 60

Sep 3, 2008
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#1
Hi folks,

OK, so if I understand correctly if I want to view 4K @ 60 content I need both a TV with HDMI 2.0 and my HTPC has to be able to output via an HDMI 2.0 port (forget about DP for this conversation).

I am about to buy a new TV in the next month or so and will also be getting a new HTPC. I am currently on a 1080i TV with an i5 laptop as the HTPC.

I like the idea of having a full PC as the HTPC so it is Kodi running on Windows 10. I am eyeing the new Intel Skylake NUC's as a new HTPC.

We watch OTA TV, some FIOS (cable), use the HTPC to watch all of our ripped DVD/BD's, stream from Amazon and might get NetFlix at some point. Even further in the future (3 years?) we might get like an XBOX or whatever is new at that point in time.

Is 4k @ 60 even an issue for me given what I use the HTPC/TV for? As best I can tell it is mainly for gaming @ 60, but couldn't you just game at 1080p on a 4K TV and it still look at least as good as it would on a 1080p TV?

My current TV is 65inch and the new will probably be 55 or 60inch.

Thanks for any insight on this 4K @ 60 madness.

Maiyr
 
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Nov 20, 2005
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#2
If you use Kodi then 60 fps matters.

People focus too much on the content, and they are right about the content. Most movies are 24p, and despite the Hobbit HFR releases that probably won't change.

With that said, the Kodi interface locked at 30hz is a stutterfest (I know from experience, my 4K Kodi box in my kitchen has that limitation). The GUI feels very laggy once you get used to using it on a 60hz screen. The only reason I can tolerate it is because its in my kitchen, and mostly exists to show off to people. There is no way in hell I would let the Kodi GUI on my main living room TV run only at 30 fps.

So yes, I think you should care. It matters to have a smooth GUI to get to the content.

Also FYI as you consider things HDMI 2.0 isn't enough to be futureproof. You also need devices that support HDCP 2.2 if you ever want to play 4K Blu Rays. That means anything Skylake is disqualified unless you want to mess around with Thunderbolt adaptors.
 
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Sep 3, 2008
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#3
For a full PC as the HTPC does that mean the only option then is a discrete video card with HDMI 2.0 support?

Thanks,

Duke
 
Nov 20, 2005
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#4
For a full PC as the HTPC does that mean the only option then is a discrete video card with HDMI 2.0 support?

Thanks,

Duke
The only "futureproof" 4k option on the market right now is a full PC with either a GTX 950 or a GTX 960 inside. Everything else doesn't have the right HDMI ports or can't decode 4K HEVC video.

Hopefully this year Nvidia or AMD will release a sub-$100 card that can do it.
 
Sep 3, 2008
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#5
Thanks for the feedback Poofy....

Just so I understand.. So if I took my current HTPC and plugged it into a new 4k TV then suddenly the menus in Kodi would start to suck? Would my DVD and BD rips at least still look OK when viewing them via Kodi?

Thanks,

Maiyr
 
Nov 20, 2005
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#6
Thanks for the feedback Poofy....

Just so I understand.. So if I took my current HTPC and plugged it into a new 4k TV then suddenly the menus in Kodi would start to suck?
It would feel sluggish compared to your current setup, but the text would look better.

Would my DVD and BD rips at least still look OK when viewing them via Kodi?
Playback is fine.
 

razel

Platinum Member
May 14, 2002
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#8
CES just got done, but I have yet to read articles/hear podcasts about the updated 4K standards and TVs from my usual trusted online sources yet... YET. Already from TWIT's Laporte crew, Home Theater Geeks, they gave a quick blurb that it'll be a good time to buy 4K later this year. I'm sure once they get back and rest from CES they'll have an in depth podcast.

If you buy now, I wouldn't be too surprised if you spend $2K+ on a good 4K 60 inch that meets the 4K standards along with HDR. If you want OLED which can truly take advantage of HDR then you'll spend more.

I'm also in the market for a new TV, but am in no rush. My current plasma is 80% the picture quality from my couch compared to the OLEDs that I can afford. I just know that since it's nearly 6 years old that it's a matter of time that something will go wrong with it.

If I were to buy now, I'd get a good LED LCD TV. If I can wait, then definitely next year AFTER super bowl when 2nd gen 4Ks that follows the new standard would be the time to vulture for a great TV.

By the way, from your usual viewing angle of 8 feet, I wouldn't spend extra money on a 4K if the TV is at least 60-65". That appears to be the gray area where the extra cost might be worth it.
 
Sep 3, 2008
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#9
Thanks for the post Razel. Good advice all around. I am in the situation now though where my current TV has just gone bye bye. The convergence went out on it about a week ago. I have toyed with the idea of replacing the chips to try and fix it, but having to solder concerns me. I can't complain though. It is a 10 year old Sony 1080i. Before TV's had the built in tuners. LOL! So I can't wait to much longer. I will probably be going with an LED LCD, but my spending limit right now is not going to allow me to get one of the higher end sets. I am topping out at around 1500.00 for the TV.
 
Sep 3, 2008
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#10
Actually, having just typed all that maybe I could just go for a 1080p TV for now and save a load of money and wait another year or two to dive into the 4K TV's. I mean coming from my old 1080i I am thinking the 1080p should be a pretty big step up anyway.

Thought?

Thanks,

Maiyr
 
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#11
If I had your budget and your setup I would get the LG 1080p OLED in a heartbeat. It will beat out any 4K tv in that price range.
 
Sep 3, 2008
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#12
I'll take a look.

Going 1080p I am guessing will let me keep to my plan of the NUC as my next HTPC.

Thanks,

Maiyr
 

lsd

Golden Member
Sep 26, 2000
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#13
CES just got done, but I have yet to read articles/hear podcasts about the updated 4K standards and TVs from my usual trusted online sources yet... YET. Already from TWIT's Laporte crew, Home Theater Geeks, they gave a quick blurb that it'll be a good time to buy 4K later this year. I'm sure once they get back and rest from CES they'll have an in depth podcast.

If you buy now, I wouldn't be too surprised if you spend $2K+ on a good 4K 60 inch that meets the 4K standards along with HDR. If you want OLED which can truly take advantage of HDR then you'll spend more.

I'm also in the market for a new TV, but am in no rush. My current plasma is 80% the picture quality from my couch compared to the OLEDs that I can afford. I just know that since it's nearly 6 years old that it's a matter of time that something will go wrong with it.

If I were to buy now, I'd get a good LED LCD TV. If I can wait, then definitely next year AFTER super bowl when 2nd gen 4Ks that follows the new standard would be the time to vulture for a great TV.

By the way, from your usual viewing angle of 8 feet, I wouldn't spend extra money on a 4K if the TV is at least 60-65". That appears to be the gray area where the extra cost might be worth it.
Agreed I'd focus on HDR ,not 60fps. Some decent deals should be had during next BF or next year superbowl. IMO, there's little to no good quality 4k content right now, so no real reason to get a 4k tv right now.
 

thesmokingman

Platinum Member
May 6, 2010
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#14
4k@60 is only to play games. HDCP 2.2 is only for future release of 4k blurays or other true 4k plug in sources. To watch movies you only need hdmi 1.4. The rest is really just hype. That said, there is 4k content out there and 4k sources are becoming more and more available. I don't think I could go back to 1080 at this point.
 
Nov 20, 2005
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#15
That said, there is highly compressed 4k content out there and low quality 4k sources are becoming more and more available. I don't think I could go back to highly compressed 1080 at this point.
Fixed
 

razel

Platinum Member
May 14, 2002
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#16
Yup 4K is awesome for gaming and theater sized screens, but for home video not so much. I'm damnned sure that from your couch 8 feet away with a screen size of 55 or less, you are imagining improvements in resolution and justifying the difference.

However, what is good about 4K is not the resolution but the new HDR spec that is included with delivery of quality 4K. Also the quality that is required to shine 4K requires just better equipment, mainly optics off the camera.

What's more important is your enjoyment. I'm sure we all enjoy technology, but since this involves entertainment, it's still all about being amused or enjoying a great story which has NOTHING to do with tech.. and there honestly isn't much gained from 4K resolution over 1080p unless you enjoy stories that are about resolution grids. :)
 

Kartajan

Golden Member
Feb 26, 2001
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#18
depends on how close you sit...

 
Apr 3, 2016
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#20
depends on how close you sit...

I always found this chart to be wrong, and I was confused why charts like this were accepted by people. At 12' I see a massive difference between 720p and 1080p.

It's probably because I have good vision 20/10 in both eyes, almost 20/5 but not quite. Just something to keep in mind, we all have different eyes.
 

Kartajan

Golden Member
Feb 26, 2001
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#21
There is always an individual bias based on individual clarity of vision, but the chart at least gives a ballpark estimate...

There is another calculator here:
http://referencehometheater.com/2013/commentary/4k-calculator/
this one has the ability to correct for different acuity of vision, screen size, and screen distance...

I guess you could always go to a big box store and compare from your individual seating distance.....
Mental image of standing in a store with a tape measure.... :D
 
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Apr 3, 2016
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#22
There is always an individual bias based on individual clarity of vision, but the chart at least gives a ballpark estimate...

There is another calculator here:
http://referencehometheater.com/2013/commentary/4k-calculator/
this one has the ability to correct for different acuity of vision, screen size, and screen distance...

I guess you could always go to a big box store and compare from your individual seating distance.....
Mental image of standing in a store with a tape measure.... :D
Hey thanks for that link! very cool and useful.:thumbsup:
 
Aug 30, 2000
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#23
There is always an individual bias based on individual clarity of vision, but the chart at least gives a ballpark estimate...

There is another calculator here:
http://referencehometheater.com/2013/commentary/4k-calculator/
this one has the ability to correct for different acuity of vision, screen size, and screen distance...

I guess you could always go to a big box store and compare from your individual seating distance.....
Mental image of standing in a store with a tape measure.... :D
Exactly, just a rule of thumb.

Also, the problem with the big box store comparison is the quality of source material.
 

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