Discussion Do Human need animal products?

[whm1974]

From all I have read, if you drink milk and everything else is vegetarian, you will be just fine.

However some folks simply can not consume milk, although they might be able to eat cheese and butter. Depending on what is widely available where they live, maybe use fish and/or eggs?

 

[snoopy7548]

Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of not "needing" animal products?

Fact is, humans evolved to need nutrients contained within animal products because they have been a part of a diet for like, millions of years. There's no way around it. You can become a vegan and eat nothing but vegetables and nuts, but you'll probably be lacking in some important nutrients.

 

[Staples]

Yes, if you need milk, that is indeed an animal product.
But also, I really wonder this. There are plenty of people who are picky eaters and have never eaten a vegetable in the last 10 years. That means they have gotten next to zero natural vitamins. No A, B, C, you name it. Some foods are fortified with lab created D but that is about all. Yet these people are healthy.

So I will always take it with a grain of salt when they say "you need" anything.

Just about zero people get 100% of the RDA of vitamins (unless they are taking multi vitamins) and yet we have seen that multi vitamins do not have a positive effect on their lives yet they make the difference between 0 and lots of many vitamins and minerals that they "need".

I have always been fascinated with questions all my life so I have thought about this many many times during my lifetime.

 

[whm1974]

Yes, if you need milk, that is indeed an animal product.
But also, I really wonder this. There are plenty of people who are picky eaters and have never eaten a vegetable in the last 10 years. That means they have gotten next to zero natural vitamins. No A, B, C, you name it. Some foods are fortified with lab created D but that is about all. Yet these people are healthy.

So I will always take it with a grain of salt when they say "you need" anything.

Just about zero people get 100% of the RDA of vitamins (unless they are taking multi vitamins) and yet we have seen that multi vitamins do not have a positive effect on their lives yet they make the difference between 0 and lots of many vitamins and minerals that they "need".

I have always been fascinated with questions all my life so I have thought about this many many times during my lifetime.

Vitamins A, B, and D are present in large amounts in animal products. Even meat has some Vitamin C in it, especially organ meats.

And few people actually need take multi vitamins anyway.

 

[ArchAngel777]

I wonder why it is so hard for vegans to accept that Human do need to consume animal products

Because they are in denial. They don't understand the order of things. They would protest a lion eating a zebra. They are idealists who have been raised to believe that all pain and death is bad.

That said, I sympathize with them in many regards. I don't like the idea of anaimals harmed. It's just that getting a swift blow to the head of cattle is much better than the alternative - letting a pride of lions slowly kill it while it shrieks in pain and knows it is going to die.

They will also object to the conditions the cattle are raised in. This is a valid complaint, except that it is too broad.

Someone does need to inform that vegans, that even if humans switched to a complete herbavore diet, death and destruction would still enter the animal kingdom.

Above all else, I am getting to the point in life "Get of my lawn" applies. I can't be shamed socially anymore, I have a mind of my own. A lot of groups operate out of fear and shame... Once you grow out of that, you can decide for yourself what morality you are going to follow, not someone else's. After all, you are the one who will have to live with the decision and the consequences of it, whether it be shunning or prison, if your morality is way, way outside the norm.

 

[whm1974]

Above all else, I am getting to the point in life "Get of my lawn" applies. I can't be shamed socially anymore, I have a mind of my own. A lot of groups operate out of fear and shame... Once you grow out of that, you can decide for yourself what morality you are going to follow, not someone else's. After all, you are the one who will have to live with the decision and the consequences of it, whether it be shunning or prison, if your morality is way, way outside the norm.

It is just about impossible to shame anyone who doesn't already share your morality to begin with.

 

[Kaido]

It is just about impossible to shame anyone who doesn't already share your morality to begin with.

This is a good insight. Eleanor Roosevelt said, "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Although, in practice:

1. By default, we all have some social anxiety about being criticized, especially unjustly, and tend to be reactive instead of proactive in our reaction to being criticized.

2. We all have our own hot buttons in our personal worldviews.

A lot of the criticism we hear is unsolicited projected criticism & not solicited constructive criticism. Great synopsis here:

https://connorgrooms.com/2-types-of-criticism/

This has long been a struggle for me, especially because I often unwittingly "feed the trolls". I recognize that I'm far from perfect myself, and there's an awful lot of stuff that I need to work on personally, but I also think it's important to recognize where the source of the criticism is coming from - some people are just plain mean & enjoy hurting other people.

It only has to bother you if you allow it, and I think part of growing up is coming to the conclusion that you do, in fact, have the power to choose how you want to feel & behave in response to people poking you.

 

[mike8675309]

No, you don't need animal products to live a healthy and long life. You do need to be aware of how to get the required nutrients and do so. Animals are given supplements so that our food supply had the required nutrients without the population needing to supplement. If you don't eat like everyone else then you will need to supplement.
That said, the supplements given to the animals are not all that effective and it makes good sense for EVERYONE to supplement B-12 and Vitamin D.
Men, particularly those ejaculating often should supplement zinc.
If you donate blood you should supplement iron, and take vitamin c or eat citrus with that to help with absorption.

A note on B-12. Cows are given cobalt to allow them to generate the B-12 in one of their stomachs. Other animals have B-12 supplements in their feed. Historically we didn't need to supplement because we ate dirt that contained b-12 in our food and water with B-12 from the creeks and rivers. Animals eat feed, so they don't get it from the dirt anymore. We drink filtered water because we don't want to get cholera.

Cow milk is a terrible food for humans to consume and there is an early indication of cow milk playing a role in the triggering of spectrum disorders in children.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6356206/
Let alone all the growth hormones and IGF-1.

 

[Chaotic42]

B12 comes from bacteria (and apparently archaea), it's just aggregated in animals. I've done some research into vegan diets, and as far as I can tell they're sustainable if you do them correctly. Not all vegans are ethical vegans, so they don't all protest. I was a vegan when I was 18-19. I've tried to go vegan in my 30s and it's exceptionally difficult for some reason. Animal products are just too tasty for my limited willpower, I guess