Do Emergency Rooms treat all Patients as Equal...

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
What are you whining about? When you post an update that the specialist discovered a horrible rare disease, I'll feel sorry for you. But, at your age, with a history of already having your appendix removed, and the sudden onset, it was probably gas or something. At this point, they're just enjoying the money they're going to receive for all those tests. I'm sure it'll turn out to be nothing (i.e. the doctor at the first ER was probably correct.) As you walked out unassisted, I'm left with two conclusions: you're a really tough guy, or it wasn't *that* bad of a pain. Yeah, abdominal pain can hurt. Just about everyone here knows that, because just about everyone here has had abdominal pain before. The difference is, most of us didn't panic into thinking that death is going to be immediate if we don't receive treatment NOW. You do realize that in a typical ER, there are people suffering from heart attacks and strokes, as well as several other conditions which are life-threatening. Abdominal pain isn't usually life threatening. 10 minutes until a nurse came to see you really isn't that long of a wait, (especially when you compare it to the one hour at the 2nd hospital) and I'm sure that after you were seen by the clerk, and then the nurse, they had correctly assessed that it wasn't life threatening.

Bad news for you: many insurance companies will *not* pay for treatment if you walk out. You may be responsible for the costs at the first hospital. I can double check when my wife gets home (she's worked in the ER of a hospital, as a clerk, as a nurse, and in quality assurance - that department also dealt with insurance issues)

I'll feel bad if you do, in fact, turn out to have something wrong with you. But, I doubt it. You'll be fine.

Well, I'd like to see what you'd do if a doctor starts asking you what you should do when you admit yourself that abdominal pain can be really painful. But to have that pain for 10 hours straight is no joke (at least to me it isn't). The doctors can enjoy the money I spent on the test but it made me feel like they were putting in an effort. The first doctor did NOTHING. Do I need to repeat myself? SHE DID NOTHING. I will move heaven and earth if the first hospital tried to cash in on their terrible service seeing that they only took notes.

I'm going to see a specialist next week. BTW, I felt as if something "twisted" in my stomach the week before. I assumed it was gas even though there was a very sharp pain. It went away about two minutes later and I thought nothing more of it. Seeing that the second one (two days ago) lasted 10 hours straight (admittly it felt worse as the hours went by), I wouldn't take this lightly. And I wouldn't advise anyone to take something like this likely either. I had similar pain before I was forced (I kept believing it would go away) to go to the hospital eight years earlier.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: mattpegher

Originally posted by: DrPizza
What are you whining about? When you post an update that the specialist discovered a horrible rare disease, I'll feel sorry for you. But, at your age, with a history of already having your appendix removed, and the sudden onset, it was probably gas or something. At this point, they're just enjoying the money they're going to receive for all those tests. I'm sure it'll turn out to be nothing (i.e. the doctor at the first ER was probably correct.) As you walked out unassisted, I'm left with two conclusions: you're a really tough guy, or it wasn't *that* bad of a pain. Yeah, abdominal pain can hurt. Just about everyone here knows that, because just about everyone here has had abdominal pain before. The difference is, most of us didn't panic into thinking that death is going to be immediate if we don't receive treatment NOW. You do realize that in a typical ER, there are people suffering from heart attacks and strokes, as well as several other conditions which are life-threatening. Abdominal pain isn't usually life threatening. 10 minutes until a nurse came to see you really isn't that long of a wait, (especially when you compare it to the one hour at the 2nd hospital) and I'm sure that after you were seen by the clerk, and then the nurse, they had correctly assessed that it wasn't life threatening.

Bad news for you: many insurance companies will *not* pay for treatment if you walk out. You may be responsible for the costs at the first hospital. I can double check when my wife gets home (she's worked in the ER of a hospital, as a clerk, as a nurse, and in quality assurance - that department also dealt with insurance issues)

I'll feel bad if you do, in fact, turn out to have something wrong with you. But, I doubt it. You'll be fine.

Many Insurance companies have a clause in your contract that states that if you leave the ER or a doctors office AMA, against medical advice, that they have the option not to pay for the visit. This can become massive if you leave a hospital admission AMA. Although this is in the contract, most of the time they don't exercise this right.

THOSE WERE ONE OF HER OPTIONS. Are you dense? She said that it's probably nothing and I can just sleep on it.

 

[Mill]

I had something similar happen to me before. I was in such pain I could hardly walk, and I was writhing in agony on the floor of the hospital while waiting for the doctor. I had to have an ultrasound and then they doped me up. My intestines had gotten severely inflamed, and I ended up staying in the hospital for a few days. Of course the ER nurse told me I probably had gas and made me wait forever. Thank God I was 17 at the time, and my pediatrician came up to the hospital and starting bitching about me getting treatment. He knew I'd never go to the hospital unless I had a bad problem, so they rushed me in after that.

 

[mattpegher]

Honestly though she didn't even feel your abdomen? You do deserve a "screening exam" which for abdomenal pain should include a physical examination of the abdomen. Granted she was right, in that you did not have a life threatening disease. If as you say she only "took notes" then she's lucky nothing was found at the second ER. If however, she questioned and examined you, determined that you had your appendix out, that the desease was not consistent with acute gallbladder disease (right upper abdomen), that your exam did not suggest an abdomen aneurism, intestinal obstruction or other life threatening disease and that she did not need a CT, US, MRI, or a sample of your brain tissue to rule these out, and that she was comfortable to discharge you to follow up with you primary and other specialists for further evaluation if necessary. Then the diagnosis was essentially the same the second only cost you, me and all of us more. By the way the doctor does not make anymore if he does every expensive test under the sun than if he does the same exam and makes a clinical diagnosis. The hospital bills for that stuff, which is why you get bills from multiple groups.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Honestly though she didn't even feel your abdomen? You do deserve a "screening exam" which for abdomenal pain should include a physical examination of the abdomen. Granted she was right, in that you did not have a life threatening disease. If as you say she only "took notes" then she's lucky nothing was found at the second ER. If however, she questioned and examined you, determined that you had your appendix out, that the desease was not consistent with acute gallbladder disease (right upper abdomen), that your exam did not suggest an abdomen aneurism, intestinal obstruction or other life threatening disease and that she did not need a CT, US, MRI, or a sample of your brain tissue to rule these out, and that she was comfortable to discharge you to follow up with you primary and other specialists for further evaluation if necessary. Then the diagnosis was essentially the same the second only cost you, me and all of us more. By the way the doctor does not make anymore if he does every expensive test under the sun than if he does the same exam and makes a clinical diagnosis. The hospital bills for that stuff, which is why you get bills from multiple groups.

Unfotunately, she only took notes. She didn't really ask more than two or three questions. She spent less than two minutes with me. Her attitude seemed like she didn't want to be there. It was as if she just got back from vacation and it was the end of her first day back. Doctors need to be nicer to patients, no matter what relative conditions they're in. They also need to do their job, which is to diagnose a patient. She couldn't do that with a simple question and answer session with no hands-on examination. That was the absolute worst experience I've ever had anywhere. I'm a very patient person and I don't like to talk unless I have to. But this lady had some serious problems that day. I wouldn't want to be under her care, ever again. I was thinking of returning to the hospital and filing a complaint. I'm also going to call my insurance company to file a complaint.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: jadinolf

Originally posted by: bctbct
equal, yep

same outrageous bill goes to all patients.

Yep and the same lousy service.

Yep.
They presume you are there to waste their time unless you prove otherwise, which you have about 1 minute to do after waiting for a couple of hours.
I would definitely head to urgent care center in your situation.

 

[confused1234]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: thirtythree
Where was the sharp pain? e.g., which side, how far above your belly button?

It was below my belly button, but the whole area below it. I had surgey for my appendix sic?) to be taken out eight years before. The doctors were saying that the fallout from that may have had something to do with why I was in such pain. Either way, I have to see a specialist soon.

Originally posted by: tfinch2
If you were able to do this:

I walked out of that emergency, took the train to my house, got into my car, and drove to St. Luke's Hospital

You were fine.

I was NOT Fine. I can't describe the pain to you because you may never have experienced it yourself but I decided to leave that ER because service was so Goddamn abysmal. Believe me, this was nothing you would sleep on.

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Although you will get treated the same independent of your insurance, you will not get treated the same as the guy having a heart attack, cardiac arrest or respiratory distress. Given your age, the worst case scenario is that you could have an appendicitis although dangerous this is not imediately life threatening. Most ED's will try to get you some symptomatic relief as soon as possible. Remember you are not the only one in the ER and the doctor is not just sitting there on his ass waiting for you to present. The triage nurse would have brought you right back and got the doctor imediately if your presentation warranted it. As it is you didn't need surgury imediately or even admission to the hospital and you have the time and leasure to post on ATOT, so grow a pair. Next time they might call the OB/GYN stat since your such a big pvssy.

I can see that you or someone you know has been on the receiving end of my kind words for the first doctor that treated me. Nevertheless, I still wouldn't wish the pain I experienced on you. God may, but not me. I'm posting this TWO days later. Obviously I'm better now but the doctors and I are afraid it'll crop up again.

you want to know pain? DO YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW PAIN!!!!! YOU GET A FVCKING CATHETER AS WIDE AS A PENCIL SHOVED UP YOUR PENIS AND THEN YOU CAN MOAN AND GROAN ABOUT PAIN!

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: confused1234

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: thirtythree
Where was the sharp pain? e.g., which side, how far above your belly button?

It was below my belly button, but the whole area below it. I had surgey for my appendix sic?) to be taken out eight years before. The doctors were saying that the fallout from that may have had something to do with why I was in such pain. Either way, I have to see a specialist soon.

Originally posted by: tfinch2
If you were able to do this:

I walked out of that emergency, took the train to my house, got into my car, and drove to St. Luke's Hospital

You were fine.

I was NOT Fine. I can't describe the pain to you because you may never have experienced it yourself but I decided to leave that ER because service was so Goddamn abysmal. Believe me, this was nothing you would sleep on.

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Although you will get treated the same independent of your insurance, you will not get treated the same as the guy having a heart attack, cardiac arrest or respiratory distress. Given your age, the worst case scenario is that you could have an appendicitis although dangerous this is not imediately life threatening. Most ED's will try to get you some symptomatic relief as soon as possible. Remember you are not the only one in the ER and the doctor is not just sitting there on his ass waiting for you to present. The triage nurse would have brought you right back and got the doctor imediately if your presentation warranted it. As it is you didn't need surgury imediately or even admission to the hospital and you have the time and leasure to post on ATOT, so grow a pair. Next time they might call the OB/GYN stat since your such a big pvssy.

I can see that you or someone you know has been on the receiving end of my kind words for the first doctor that treated me. Nevertheless, I still wouldn't wish the pain I experienced on you. God may, but not me. I'm posting this TWO days later. Obviously I'm better now but the doctors and I are afraid it'll crop up again.

you want to know pain? DO YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW PAIN!!!!! YOU GET A FVCKING CATHETER AS WIDE AS A PENCIL SHOVED UP YOUR PENIS AND THEN YOU CAN MOAN AND GROAN ABOUT PAIN!

Man, I don't even want to know what that sh!t is.

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: jadinolf

Originally posted by: bctbct
equal, yep

same outrageous bill goes to all patients.

Yep and the same lousy service.

Yep.
They presume you are there to waste their time unless you prove otherwise, which you have about 1 minute to do after waiting for a couple of hours.
I would definitely head to urgent care center in your situation.

I never even heard of Urgent Care Center until people started mentioning it in this thread. AFAIK, Urgent=Emergency. I'll definitely check out the available centers around school and home, just in case.

 

[confused1234]

^it was when i had broken my neck and aparently when your paralyzed and you slowly regain movement, not all your bodiely functions come back normally....

 

[Xstatic1]

Originally posted by: Narmer


Unfotunately, she only took notes. She didn't really ask more than two or three questions. She spent less than two minutes with me. Her attitude seemed like she didn't want to be there. It was as if she just got back from vacation and it was the end of her first day back. Doctors need to be nicer to patients, no matter what relative conditions they're in. They also need to do their job, which is to diagnose a patient. She couldn't do that with a simple question and answer session with no hands-on examination. That was the absolute worst experience I've ever had anywhere. I'm a very patient person and I don't like to talk unless I have to. But this lady had some serious problems that day. I wouldn't want to be under her care, ever again. I was thinking of returning to the hospital and filing a complaint. I'm also going to call my insurance company to file a complaint.

welcome to health care today...and I'm not trying to be a smart a$$. the root of the problem is that all the health care providers you see once you enter a hospital (from the admitting clerk, nurse, technicians, all the way up to the doctors) really don't care...and it usually all because the hospital's management don't know how to treat their employees/staff members right. most of the time, management is all about the $$$ and trying to cut corners by overworking staff and laying off personnel...all the while they're planning on renovating departments to bring in more patients...you get the picture. you have the right idea though--file a complaint, and make sure the following people &/or departments gets a copy: Hospital CEO, Hospital COO (if there is one), Quality Assurance Department or the Patients Rights (advocate). you want to get names of these people, not just addressed to "CEO", "COO", "QA Manager", etc. also, write the complaint/letter SOON while it's still fresh in your mind...be sure to include how you were feeling (the reason you went to the hospital in the first place), the approximate time you were seen (& how long you had to wait), who tended to you and what they did, and the diagnosis. most people won't take the time to write a complaint/letter...and it would be good for you to do so. good luck! pm me if you want me to proofread your letter/complaint before you submit it.

 

[jiwq]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: confused1234

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: thirtythree
Where was the sharp pain? e.g., which side, how far above your belly button?

It was below my belly button, but the whole area below it. I had surgey for my appendix sic?) to be taken out eight years before. The doctors were saying that the fallout from that may have had something to do with why I was in such pain. Either way, I have to see a specialist soon.

Originally posted by: tfinch2
If you were able to do this:

I walked out of that emergency, took the train to my house, got into my car, and drove to St. Luke's Hospital

You were fine.

I was NOT Fine. I can't describe the pain to you because you may never have experienced it yourself but I decided to leave that ER because service was so Goddamn abysmal. Believe me, this was nothing you would sleep on.

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Although you will get treated the same independent of your insurance, you will not get treated the same as the guy having a heart attack, cardiac arrest or respiratory distress. Given your age, the worst case scenario is that you could have an appendicitis although dangerous this is not imediately life threatening. Most ED's will try to get you some symptomatic relief as soon as possible. Remember you are not the only one in the ER and the doctor is not just sitting there on his ass waiting for you to present. The triage nurse would have brought you right back and got the doctor imediately if your presentation warranted it. As it is you didn't need surgury imediately or even admission to the hospital and you have the time and leasure to post on ATOT, so grow a pair. Next time they might call the OB/GYN stat since your such a big pvssy.

I can see that you or someone you know has been on the receiving end of my kind words for the first doctor that treated me. Nevertheless, I still wouldn't wish the pain I experienced on you. God may, but not me. I'm posting this TWO days later. Obviously I'm better now but the doctors and I are afraid it'll crop up again.

you want to know pain? DO YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW PAIN!!!!! YOU GET A FVCKING CATHETER AS WIDE AS A PENCIL SHOVED UP YOUR PENIS AND THEN YOU CAN MOAN AND GROAN ABOUT PAIN!

trying to cheat a drug test?

 

[Chaotic42]

Civilian medical care sucks. The USAF hospitals that I've gone to are far, far better. It's not even close.

 

[Rock Hydra]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar
Some of you morons need to look up the word "triage."

If you're in E.R. you get prioritised, no matter how much you pay. Period.

Yeah. I fractured my elbow and went to the the E.R. I was already there for like 45 minutes and a kid who was climbing on a wood pile had it fall on him. Obviously they're going to treat more serious cases first. I was there waiting for 5 hours....Unfortuntely the boy died.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: Xstatic1

Originally posted by: Narmer


Unfotunately, she only took notes. She didn't really ask more than two or three questions. She spent less than two minutes with me. Her attitude seemed like she didn't want to be there. It was as if she just got back from vacation and it was the end of her first day back. Doctors need to be nicer to patients, no matter what relative conditions they're in. They also need to do their job, which is to diagnose a patient. She couldn't do that with a simple question and answer session with no hands-on examination. That was the absolute worst experience I've ever had anywhere. I'm a very patient person and I don't like to talk unless I have to. But this lady had some serious problems that day. I wouldn't want to be under her care, ever again. I was thinking of returning to the hospital and filing a complaint. I'm also going to call my insurance company to file a complaint.

welcome to health care today...and I'm not trying to be a smart a$$. the root of the problem is that all the health care providers you see once you enter a hospital (from the admitting clerk, nurse, technicians, all the way up to the doctors) really don't care...and it usually all because the hospital's management don't know how to treat their employees/staff members right. most of the time, management is all about the $$$ and trying to cut corners by overworking staff and laying off personnel...all the while they're planning on renovating departments to bring in more patients...you get the picture. you have the right idea though--file a complaint, and make sure the following people &/or departments gets a copy: Hospital CEO, Hospital COO (if there is one), Quality Assurance Department or the Patients Rights (advocate). you want to get names of these people, not just addressed to "CEO", "COO", "QA Manager", etc. also, write the complaint/letter SOON while it's still fresh in your mind...be sure to include how you were feeling (the reason you went to the hospital in the first place), the approximate time you were seen (& how long you had to wait), who tended to you and what they did, and the diagnosis. most people won't take the time to write a complaint/letter...and it would be good for you to do so. good luck! pm me if you want me to proofread your letter/complaint before you submit it.

I'll definitely do that. The trail always leads to the bottom-line=money. It'd be better if all these hospitals were public. At least money wouldn't/shouldn't be an issue.

 

[OrganizedChaos]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42
Civilian medical care sucks. The USAF hospitals that I've gone to are far, far better. It's not even close.

they make up for it by shortchanging the VA hospitals.

 

[Trevelyan]

Originally posted by: Narmer
I'll definitely do that. The trail always leads to the bottom-line=money. It'd be better if all these hospitals were public. At least money wouldn't/shouldn't be an issue.

Private hospitals --> Greed

Public hospitals --> Waste

Health care sucks. Period.

 

[Xstatic1]

Originally posted by: Trevelyan


Private hospitals --> Greed

Public hospitals --> Waste

Health care sucks. Period.

i liked how you summmarized it!!!

 

[deejayshakur]

Originally posted by: Rock Hydra

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar
Some of you morons need to look up the word "triage."

If you're in E.R. you get prioritised, no matter how much you pay. Period.

Yeah. I fractured my elbow and went to the the E.R. I was already there for like 45 minutes and a kid who was climbing on a wood pile had it fall on him. Obviously they're going to treat more serious cases first. I was there waiting for 5 hours....Unfortuntely the boy died.

this case illustrates the difference between urgent care versus emergency care quite nicely. feel sorry for the kid.

 

[bonkers325]

it really depends on the hospital you goto. Maimonides in brooklyn has excellent care... makes me scared to eat something out of Columbia's vending machines now. i always get snacks in between lectures! i hope i dont sh!t out my intestines from eating a snickers or something

 

[cherrytwist]

Don't talk to me about ERs. I was turned away twice while having congestive heart failure due to a bad aortic valve.

They knew I was a Marfanite, however did not perform the proper tests to determine the cause of the symptoms.

The 3rd time I was rushed to another hospital for an emergency Aortic Valve replacement, this at the ripe old age of 29.

I considered a lawsuit, but I survived. I could have pursued it for pain and suffering but I'm not the typical American who will sue just because I can. What I wanted they couldn't give me. The 6 weeks back that I was suffering and wondering wtf was wrong with me.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: cherrytwist
Don't talk to me about ERs. I was turned away twice while having congestive heart failure due to a bad aortic valve.

They knew I was a Marfanite, however did not perform the proper tests to determine the cause of the symptoms.

The 3rd time I was rushed to another hospital for an emergency Aortic Valve replacement, this at the ripe old age of

I considered a lawsuit, but I survived. I could have pursued it for pain and suffering but I'm not the typical American who will sue just because I can. What I wanted they couldn't give me. The 6 weeks back that I was suffering and wondering wtf was wrong with me.

Ouch! :|

My wife was moved too soon from the ICU after her esophagectomy. I came in that morning and they were moving her, wouldn't let me see her. I tracked down her lead doctor, and when I told him they were moving her, I saw him literally get white in the face. They kept me in some out of the way waiting room, alone, for nearly an hour. During the move, Jessie (my wife) aspirated stomach bile into both of her lungs. When they let me see her again, she was back in ICU, in a coma. She never made it back to consciousness, and 30 days later, she died. She was 42.

She deserved better.

I could have sued for some big bucks, in fact, I was urged to sue, but I did receive what I still consider some good advice. If you sue, the case can drag on for YEARS, it is not a pretty process, and the purple wound of your loss remains just that the whole damn time, opened and reopened by lawyers.

This was the goddamned Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania, and her presiding surgeon was head of the department and had done more successful esophagectomies in the last 20 years than anyone in the nation. His brother is head of the same dept. at Jefferson Hospital, and his son is a prominent surgeon in the same field.

Sometimes you do all you humanly can and Fate still turns its cold icy back on you. But, rich man, poor man, that's just the way it is . . . and, with you or without you, life goes blindly, busily bumbling on. If you stand and sulk in the corner, Life does not give a good rat's ass.

You don't get to take your toys with you, and no one is exempt. In the end, ALL you really have is your personal honor, your integrity, and the true friends you have made and known along the way.

But see? THAT'S what makes this life, this ephemeral, evanescent gift, this almost "unbearable lightness of being", the unmatched treasure it is.

May you greet the morning sun, as I am about to, secure in the knowlege that Today is a good day to die.

No one can ever take from you what you would freely surrender anyway.

 

[wasssup]

Hmm similar thing happened to me last week.

Ended up being that my lung collapsed...

 

[mattpegher]

Originally posted by: Trevelyan

Originally posted by: Narmer
I'll definitely do that. The trail always leads to the bottom-line=money. It'd be better if all these hospitals were public. At least money wouldn't/shouldn't be an issue.

Private hospitals --> Greed

Public hospitals --> Waste

Health care sucks. Period.

Money wasn't an issue in this case. Narmer's problem is it got a jaded unhappy ER doc who didn't even physicaly examine him. She failed to do her duty which was to give him a screening "exam" not just an interview. The second hospital did the right thing examined him, attempted to give him some relief then did what was necessary to rule out the life threatening diseases, fortunately for him no dangerous diagnoses were found but a clear diagnosis was not found either. This is common with abdomenal pain. Further evaluation by specialist may find the cause or they may not, that is just the nature of disease.

Narmer
I am sorry to be so harsh but you have to admit, if you are well enough to post your doing ok. Seriously though contact the hospital admin and the head of the department this doc sounds like she didn't do even a cursory examination. I often get people in the ER who are faking back or muscule/joint pain to get narcotics and you can tell a lot by how they walk, turn, breath etc that they are faking, but with abdomenal pain she should have at least felt and listened to your abdomen.

The Emergency medicine system is on the brink of collapse due to poor staffing, poor reimbursement, uninsured/indigent, a culture that demands that every test possible be done to rule out even the most unlikely disease, patients who don't or can't see their primary in order to prevent emergency situations, patients who play the system to get narcotics, and a physician hierarchy that makes Emergency physician second class citizens. Not to mention that huge megagroops control most ER's now and employ most docs, so the docs have little say what goes on in there ER. Lets not forget that for every minute the doc has to spend with you, they must spend 2-4 minutes documenting the visit and reviewing all the tests. Something must change or it is only going to get worse. Its simple supply and demand. Great demand but there is too much incentive for doctors to go into the easy fields; better pay, better hours, job security and career control/own boss. It all spells a safty net full of holes.

 

[JDrake]

Originally posted by: Kilgor
Sounds like you had gas, did you try farting?

QFT

 

[911paramedic]

I walked out of that emergency, took the train to my house, got into my car, and drove to St. Luke's Hospital, across from Columbia University. I had to wait another hour just to be called upon

Sounds like the nurse was correct, you weren't the most severe patient in the ER.